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Maxamps Out of their Mind????

Old 05-21-2010, 03:41 PM
  #51  
Lilredmachine
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: austinelse

Hi Guys!

Austin here from MaxAmps.com

I read through all of your concerns. I understand your concerns and I would feel the same way if I did not know all of the information. I guess the main question here is why are our packs more expensive than another pack on the market. And the second question is why do we not rate our packs by ''C'' rate. I will do my best to answer both of those questions.

1. Why are MaxAmps packs more expensive?

A. We build the packs here in the USA so our costs to build the packs are much higher than having them built overseas. It literally costs us 20 times as much labor to build a pack here.
B. The quality of our cells are much higher and our wholesale costs are much more expensive. They are not OEM! We are the only manufacturer offering the cells that we offer and they are specifically built to our specs.
C. We offer a 3 year 300 cycle warranty. If you purchase a pack elsewhere and it lasts 5 cycles, you may be out of luck.
D. We water seal all of our packs(this has already been mentioned)
E. We offer 7 day a week USA based customer service for all your technical questions.
F. The components that we use in the packs are all brand name including the deans wire, plugs, and even the kapton tape inside the pack.
G. All cells are balanced and matched before we build the packs.
H. The pack comes fresh from our shop and we get our cell shipments every 3 weeks so your cells are guaranteed to be 3 weeks old or less.

As you know, the amount of time a pack sits on the shelf is a big deal. If you buy elsewhere, your pack could have set for 2 years before you received it.

There are many other reasons and I would be happy to talk to any of you personally about this over the phone. Feel free to give me a call anytime on our toll free number at 888-654-4450.

2. Why we do not use a ''C'' rate?

We use a surge watt rating, just the same as the motor manufacturers so that you can match up your motor to your batteries. Its a much simpler way to rate the packs and we have a detailed description of how we arrive at that Surge Watt rating. The ''C'' rate is meaningless because there is no standard for testing it. Other manufacturers just pick a number out of the sky and there is no way to prove it otherwise. Its that simple. We have a section on the website explaining this in great detail.

Thanks for taking the time to read through all of this if you did We also offer a free membership program on the website where you can save up to 20% off of your orders. Give us a shot and you will see the difference in performance, service, and cycle life. Our packs are guaranteed to last 300 cycles. We also received the best battery award in RC Car Action, RC Driver, and RC Car magazines. Castle Creations, Traxxas, HPI, Novak, Tekin, and many other industry leaders all use our packs for testing.

I am confident that we offer the best value on the market. Not the best price, but the best value. Some people buy packs based on price rather than value but it usually ends up costing them more in the end due to short cycle life and lack of warranty coverage.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
www.MaxAmps.com
888-654-4450
I have a few reservations about this post.

1. C rating is not meaningless. A 'C' rating is simply a measurement of how many amps a pack can supply before it's overall voltage falls beneath a safe level, say 3v per cell. This is easily measured with an Eagletree device. Manufacturer claims in general are meaningless not because of irrelevance, but because of exaggeration. Not offering one will simply confuse the customer, as everyone else does. I put forward that you no longer give a 'C' rating as in actual tests you would most likely have your ass handed to you on a plate when your lipos struggle to make it within 5c of the overblown rating.

2. I appreciate you have overheads being an American company, but at the end of the day you still have to be competitive to survive. I for one will never buy a Maxamps pack, I really do gag at having to buy a pack where actual performance evidence is so evasivley hidden and then paying a huge premium for it over a 'lesser' contender. Particularly when there are other companies charging a far cheaper price for lipos i'm never even likely to explore the outer performance envelope of. Your warranty is fairly meaningless as the majority of people will never see 300 uses of their lipo, even with only a 30 minute runtime that's over 150 hours of use. Most people with a full time job (as they would have to have to pay the prices your company charges) will be unlikely to use their packs for half that over a considerable period. And as previously mentioned, I can purchase as many as 6 cheaper packs for the cost of 1 Maxamps pack. Even if they only last 100 cycles each, that's twice the runtime of a Maxamps lipo for the same dosh.

3. Getting a cell shipment every 3 weeks means that you can guarantee it's not sat on YOUR shelf for more than 3 weeks. It does not gurantee the lipo is less than 3 weeks old.

4. Care to mention just how your cells are higher quality than anything else? After all, your Green series Li-Fe cells are suspiciously similar to the cells sold on Hobbyking for a quarter of the price. I've seen a Maxamps rep refer to the Turnigy cells as factory rejects, so it was amazing to see in independant testing on RC-Monster (a thread which oddly enough, Maxamps didn't partake in) the Turnigy cells performed better than A123 cells, considered to be the pioneers and forefront contenders of the Li-Fe RC market. Incidenatally no one has bothered to test the Maxamps packs over there yet, as no one can afford the fricking things. Explain to me just how the Maxamps packs are 4 times better and I may remortgage the house and buy some.

5. I've seen repeated instances of this exact thread popping up in a lot of rc forums all over the internet, and those who care enough about RC to generally research what they buy and aren't just attracted by lots of advertising and big speed promises for the most part aren't convinced by this routine. The frequency of this occurance should give you an idea that a lot of people don't buy this.
Old 05-21-2010, 03:48 PM
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t9dragon
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

time to get some popcorn........
Old 05-21-2010, 04:35 PM
  #53  
austinelse
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

No need for popcorn

Lilredmachine,

I understand your concerns and do my best to answer them. I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out.

1. I should have explained myself better regarding C rate. My point is that there is no standard for testing the C rate. An eagle tree does not measure C rate. It tells you amp draw and voltage under load. For example: What voltage should a cell hold to be considered a certain C rate? What temperature should it stay? How many cycles should it run at that C rate? Is it a burst rate? Is it 10 seconds? Is it a constant C rate? Some manufacturers would consider our cells 100C while others might consider them 50C. They would both be right depending on how they measured it. "C" rate is nothing but marketing hype. It is meaningless without more information.

2. We have thousands of loyal customers who disagree with you. They want the best performance and value and the lowest cost per cycle. The exact specs of our packs along with exactly how we test the pack to determine those specs are listed on our website. We are the only manufacturer that I know that actually tells people what testing we do to determine the ratings that our packs have. We are the only company that I know of who provides this information, not the other way around. What if your cheap packs last 5 cycles, not 100? They could be dead on arrival. If our packs come up short of 300 cycles, we warranty them. That is a fact, not an assumption.

3. We receive brand new cells to our specs every 3 weeks. You can choose to believe me or not. There is nothing I can do to prove this to you.

4. I am not going to make any statements directly against any other specific manufacturers. All I can say is that you will not get our cells from any other manufacturers.

5. I know we are doing things right when the only attack that can be found about MaxAmps is our pricing. It is a rare thing to find anything negative about our service, performance, quality, or products. To me that is further proof that we are offering the best batteries on the market.

I do appreciate your opinion and thank you for staying respectful. I just disagree with you. It really boils down to how much you think service, USA built quality, warranty, and performance is worth. It is obviously not worth much to you and that is ok. To others it is important.

The good new is that you can choose to purchase your packs from any place that you like. Nobody is forcing you to purchase our packs.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
www.MaxAmps.com
Old 05-21-2010, 05:04 PM
  #54  
qoisdhc oqina
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: austinelse




5. I know we are doing things right when the only attack that can be found about MaxAmps is our pricing. It is a rare thing to find anything negative about our service, performance, quality, or products. To me that is further proof that we are offering the best batteries on the market.



Just a question.How much have you actually read around?I must say, i must have a knack for finding rare info than.I find bad reviews about your quality,performance, and products all the time...
Old 05-21-2010, 05:41 PM
  #55  
rymansl2
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: qoisdhc oqina


ORIGINAL: austinelse




5. I know we are doing things right when the only attack that can be found about MaxAmps is our pricing. It is a rare thing to find anything negative about our service, performance, quality, or products. To me that is further proof that we are offering the best batteries on the market.



Just a question.How much have you actually read around?I must say, i must have a knack for finding rare info than.I find bad reviews about your quality,performance, and products all the time...
I agree. I have also heard of cases where negative reviews are rejected for posting on maxamp's site. I remember reading a thread where a guy bought one of their batteries and had bad experiences with it. He decided to post a review about his issues, but it was rejected by the maxamps staff (most likely because it shed their product in a bad light).

I respect you coming on here to defend your company Austin, but until I personally see some actual proof of your "superior quality" cells then I'm going to take your claims with a grain of salt.
Old 05-21-2010, 05:47 PM
  #56  
Willystylz
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: austinelse
2. We have thousands of loyal customers who disagree with you. They want the best performance and value and the lowest cost per cycle. The exact specs of our packs along with exactly how we test the pack to determine those specs are listed on our website. We are the only manufacturer that I know that actually tells people what testing we do to determine the ratings that our packs have. We are the only company that I know of who provides this information, not the other way around. What if your cheap packs last 5 cycles, not 100? They could be dead on arrival. If our packs come up short of 300 cycles, we warranty them. That is a fact, not an assumption.
Something that struck my curiosity when I saw you guys providing a 300 cycle warranty. What is to stop somebody (that actually has for example 500 cycles on their lipo) from sending their dead battery back to you guys while saying he's still under the 300 cycles? I own 6 lipos and I haven't a clue how many cycles I have on each. I could only guess, and even that would probably be way off for the ones I use the most.
Old 05-21-2010, 05:49 PM
  #57  
plasma 327
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: austinelse

No need for popcorn

Lilredmachine,

I understand your concerns and do my best to answer them. I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out.

1. I should have explained myself better regarding C rate. My point is that there is no standard for testing the C rate. An eagle tree does not measure C rate. It tells you amp draw and voltage under load. For example: What voltage should a cell hold to be considered a certain C rate? What temperature should it stay? How many cycles should it run at that C rate? Is it a burst rate? Is it 10 seconds? Is it a constant C rate? Some manufacturers would consider our cells 100C while others might consider them 50C. They would both be right depending on how they measured it. ''C'' rate is nothing but marketing hype. It is meaningless without more information.

2. We have thousands of loyal customers who disagree with you. They want the best performance and value and the lowest cost per cycle. The exact specs of our packs along with exactly how we test the pack to determine those specs are listed on our website. We are the only manufacturer that I know that actually tells people what testing we do to determine the ratings that our packs have. We are the only company that I know of who provides this information, not the other way around. What if your cheap packs last 5 cycles, not 100? They could be dead on arrival. If our packs come up short of 300 cycles, we warranty them. That is a fact, not an assumption.

3. We receive brand new cells to our specs every 3 weeks. You can choose to believe me or not. There is nothing I can do to prove this to you.

4. I am not going to make any statements directly against any other specific manufacturers. All I can say is that you will not get our cells from any other manufacturers.

5. I know we are doing things right when the only attack that can be found about MaxAmps is our pricing. It is a rare thing to find anything negative about our service, performance, quality, or products. To me that is further proof that we are offering the best batteries on the market.

I do appreciate your opinion and thank you for staying respectful. I just disagree with you. It really boils down to how much you think service, USA built quality, warranty, and performance is worth. It is obviously not worth much to you and that is ok. To others it is important.

The good new is that you can choose to purchase your packs from any place that you like. Nobody is forcing you to purchase our packs.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
www.MaxAmps.com
Austin,

I personally have seen Maxamp packs fail... I am a club racer and 3 gentleman ran maxamp(use too) for a couple of weeks.. In the beginnig they were very pleased after a couple of days they complained they did not charge up to advertised capacity... Said they called maxamps and was told they need several cycles to mature creatively enough.. They never (according to them) reached capacity... Just this past Sunday I watched one of their packs puff during a race.. Now it never caught fire but it is now usless.. This I saw first hand... He is calling maxamp to see what they will do for him.. I will find out sunday the outcome.. I have read on many forums that maxamps are NOT what they are lead to believe.. If your product is as good as you state why the warranty? I understand not all is perfect every time... I just feel that for the cost you charge if their is problem it should be replaced period.. Warranty or not, otherwise is rediculous, would you agree?? I am not bashing I am just speaking from first hand experience...
Thanks,

God Speed
Old 05-21-2010, 05:57 PM
  #58  
strtzpmp
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

you could buy 3 turnigy 2s lipo for 55 bucks and have the same maxamp 13000mah battery if you put them in parallel except its $245 cheaper....with the rest you could make 5-10 outragous MAH packs in 2s-6s and thier rated for 2s 40c 4000mah each pack. or buy a new 36V dewalt battery and get 20 A123 cells and build a couple SUPER safe and powerfully packs all for 80 bucks. why would i pay $600 for a 6s pack thats 10000mah? $100/ per cell or how do you price each pack? do you throw 3 dice and use each dice ada digit in what ever is the biggest order. if you had normal price and not exaggerate there performance to pricing ratio for each pack i might buy one...but i have a hard enough time keeping up with my bills and my rc already buying $5-$100 parts....and have to save for weeks...i would have to save for months to have enough for the cheapest battery you have....even the nihm rx packs are overpriced, not to mention a $180 2s rx lipo battery : (

labor costs to much in the usa right? well ill work for you guys for cheap, ill build packs for you if every 50 i build i can picks or make the battery i choose! ill make one thats exactly the same as my chassis as a 1/4" cover with spacing and cutouts for my motor and stuff on my slash 4x4, so then ill have a 6s 25000mah pack and want it to have atleast 35c-50c rating.....now that would be *****in (i wouldnt make that same battery every 50 packs though...just one lol)
Old 05-21-2010, 06:14 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

Be careful using lipos in parallel. There is no way to monitor individual cell voltage when they are in parallel, especially if they are hardwired that way.

In general, if the cells are similar and or all cells are balanced together, it's sort of ok. But, combine different types or two packs, one old (300 cycles or so) and one new and both fully charged, the old pack may be overcharged by the new pack and self-ignite. Same holds true on discharge, the older pack will go undervoltage before the new pack and same thing, boom! Usually it just ends up swelling the damaged cell but some times....

It's best to only use lipos in series, then there is nothing to worry about.
Old 05-21-2010, 06:55 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

the way i see it is maxamps are great battery's but to expensive for most people i understand the cost they have to produce them so the price is high. but if maxamps sold them at a cheaper price they would sell a whole lot more and and can offset the expense buy selling more battery'[ if they have the man power to produce them in mass ] . i sure with lower prices and a strong marking campaign they could corner the market
Old 05-21-2010, 07:34 PM
  #61  
Brainanator
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

Austin (and associates),

While I will probably never purchase a Maxamps battery, I do appreciate you coming to this thread to give your view points, to share your information, and to defend your company. I can nearly guarantee you that no one from HobbyKing will come to these forums to defend themselves (which is where I purchase my lipos from, and will continue to do so). Thanks again! I love when companies can get involved with their customers, or at least people that are potential customers.
Old 05-21-2010, 08:00 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

ORIGINAL: Brainanator

Austin (and associates),

While I will probably never purchase a Maxamps battery, I do appreciate you coming to this thread to give your view points, to share your information, and to defend your company. I can nearly guarantee you that no one from HobbyKing will come to these forums to defend themselves (which is where I purchase my lipos from, and will continue to do so). Thanks again! I love when companies can get involved with their customers, or at least people that are potential customers.
LOL Hobby king don't come here to defend themselves cause they don't need to
Honestly I've only heard one guy complain on his HK lipos a few months back, but he was new to lipos, and seems to have screwed them up himself by not reading the forums for proper use
Find it funny at the rate they sell batteries (even to ppl on these forums) that theres not more threads about them being bad etc...
Old 05-21-2010, 09:06 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

The the question is........ What do you guys recommend? I am a big believer in "you get what you pay for" but like most I do not have unlimited funds. I am sure Maxamps are quality but again money is ALWAYS an issue.
Old 05-21-2010, 09:10 PM
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plasma 327
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: Hellacool

The the question is........ What do you guys recommend? I am a big believer in ''you get what you pay for'' but like most I do not have unlimited funds. I am sure Maxamps are quality but again money is ALWAYS an issue.
I suggest Protek Lipo's.. Check out Amainhobbies.. Those are what I run and are Fantastic!!! Here is a link

http://www.amainhobbies.com/advanced...r=&filter_cat=


God Speed
Old 05-21-2010, 09:25 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

I recomend Thunder Power batteries. Their new 45C units can be charged at 6C which probably exceeds the amp rating of most our chargers. Like for a 2250mah 7.4v lipo for the merv you can charge it at 13.5 amps... Lol, takes only 12 minutes or so to charge, feels like old skool nicds! A huge 5000mah pack for the e-revo or e-maxx could be charged at 30amps. Going to need some serious wire for that

Super high C ratings mean that under load the voltage from the batteries is higher. Higher voltage = more punch and speed. Like a 15C battery would let you do wheelies sometimes, a 20C more easily and a 45C would wheelie on demand requiring the driver to actually pay attention to the throttle. I'll never say no to more power.

The cells maxamps is currently pushing is similar to the Thunder Power cells... Well, similar in their specs but there is no way I'm paying 2x the cost to find out.
Old 05-21-2010, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: gettnbetter

I recomend Thunder Power batteries. Their new 45C units can be charged at 6C which probably exceeds the amp rating of most our chargers. Like for a 2250mah 7.4v lipo for the merv you can charge it at 13.5 amps... Lol, takes only 12 minutes or so to charge, feels like old skool nicds! A huge 5000mah pack for the e-revo or e-maxx could be charged at 30amps. Going to need some serious wire for that

Super high C ratings mean that under load the voltage from the batteries is higher. Higher voltage = more punch and speed. Like a 15C battery would let you do wheelies sometimes, a 20C more easily and a 45C would wheelie on demand requiring the driver to actually pay attention to the throttle. I'll never say no to more power.

The cells maxamps is currently pushing is similar to the Thunder Power cells... Well, similar in their specs but there is no way I'm paying 2x the cost to find out.
i hear you all i ever used is thunderpower i got some over 3 years old and still kicking
Old 05-21-2010, 10:02 PM
  #67  
Lilredmachine
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

I want to make one thing clear, I am not necessarily against Maxamps lipos. I built a friend a brushless e-revo using a Neu motor and an MMM and a few other trick bits, when he asked what batteries to use, and stated that money wasn't really a concern to him (airline pilot ) I steered him towards Maxamps purely because yes, they offer a warranty and yes, they have a corporate face. He isn't exactly mechanically savvy and it seemed the best option should he manage to kill them making a stupid error.

My personal issue is the cost. Plain and simple. For that amount of money a genie should pop out of them every time you use them and grant you 3 wishes. Then, when you are finished and go to bed at night they should tuck you in and then they should have a full cooked breakfast ready for you in the morning. You have aknowledged that, and that is fair enough.

I am not going to make any statements directly against any other specific manufacturers. All I can say is that you will not get our cells from any other manufacturers.
I have seen a thread on RCtech where a Maxamps rep has called Turnigy cells factory seconds, rejects and low grade cells from the same production line (which kind of buggers up the 'you won't get our cells from any other manufacturer' bit). Now, it's all very well and good saying that, and whether true or not, but offering it without any evidence can be classed as libel. Of course to do that you'd have to give away where your lipos are made, and which factory produced them. Which may very well prove damaging (or a vindication) for the company. Withholding this information makes people suspicious, however simply divulging it would perhaps be unwise. I can appreciate your position on the issue, but again, I'm a fairly heavy lipo user and would really like to sample some of what Maxamps has to offer, but am not going to do so till I see some cold, hard facts. And yes, for me that is a proven 'C' rating based on voltage under load showing superior performance to competitors in the same setup. As far as I am concerned, heat, length of continuous and burst currents, overall output of the pack and voltage drop under load are all indicators of true pack performance and internal resistance and all contribute to the total performance of the pack. This can be expressed as a true 'C' rating which can be easily worked out through a real life test in a suitably hungry brushless system running a 150a eagletree setup. For example, recently an Ace Power 4000mah 2s '40c' pack was recently tested in this manner on RC-monster and found to be closer to a '25c' pack in reality.
Old 05-21-2010, 10:37 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

Lets do a test, Type in maxamps reveiws in google look at the first 20 reveiws and see how many are bad and how many are good.
Old 05-21-2010, 10:40 PM
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strtzpmp
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

do manufacturer use a machine to drain a safe discharge (according to the machine) from a pack and then slap on the sticker or just guess then? could there be a esc with a c-rating moniter that shows results f true real time disharge? wouldnt that be what rc enthusists want to hear from not some meter that pulls out some disharge then shows that out of results.....like ciggs with lights and regulars...the machine that makes it "lights" doent cover the holes on the lights filter so it gives false reading unless you too are smoking w/out the holes on the filter covered...people that know this will understand what i mean. or another exp...would be taking results with your fullsize's o2 sensor removed or in a "perfect" setting while the truth is not the perfect setting to get more horsepower
Old 05-21-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

I still have not seen one side-by-side of equivelent quantitative test posted here. If the next time Brian does a "LiPo Shootout" maxamps batteries are tested, that alone would suffice. All these claims about how maxamps are the best batteries period but absolutely no quantitative data to back it up. If a hobbyist like me can do tests like this:
http://access.time.angelfire.com/bat...t_data_01.html
I don't see why people from industry can't do the same, and post the results in a public forum. B'cos unpublished or 'secret' results may as well not exist in the real world (unless they have something to hide).

I mean seriously they should be able to do a better job than some hobbyist like me with hand-me-down oscilloscopes and power resistors and a cooling fan I got off digikey.

You can discuss things all you want or argue one line of business propaganda or another. None of these things are facts, they are all opinions or unproven assertions. They only become proven when you can back it up with real, side-by-side type testing done under similar conditions, same equipment, same test setup, etc. In these places, hobbyist word-of-mouth tends to trump advertising, magazines, 'pro' endorsements, business statements, press releases, or anything else we get in this company. Every single company out there states they have the best products, but in reality there is only one first place out there.
Old 05-21-2010, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

If the next time Brian does a "LiPo Shootout" maxamps batteries are tested, that alone would suffice.
only problem is if they come up short you may never see it, Due to the fact that they are a paying advertiser on big squid, they already have their stories mixed up about why they did not test them, Maybe they did and they came up short and did not publish them. But I have been known to be wrong before
Old 05-21-2010, 11:13 PM
  #72  
samguan
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

If the next time Brian does a ''LiPo Shootout'' maxamps batteries are tested, that alone would suffice.
only problem is if they come up short you may never see it, Due to the fact that they are a paying advertiser on big squid, they already have their stories mixed up about why they did not test them, Maybe they did and they came up short and did not publish them. But I have been known to be wrong before
That is what I believe too. I remember not long time, some magazine did a lipo test and MaxAmp fell almost last.



Old 05-21-2010, 11:48 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

Found this on anthor site, Was a fun read[&:] Not saying I agree or disagree, Just a good read.


If you want to read an epic thread about why we (at RCM) dont like Maxamps, then look at this:

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22566

Basically, Austin comes along to defend his 60c lipo claims, then goes about ignoring everyones questions & requests for discharge graphes, refuses to enter into open debate and will only address people's concerns via PMs, then still insists his lipos are the best ever- he even goes so far as to annoy BrianG, the most level headed and fair minded moderator a forum has ever known. Then, he takes his ball and leaves because we're all bullies apparently (we wanted him to prove his lipos are worth the $$$, he refused, then left with his tail between his legs- go figure)...

Its quite a read, and quite amusing at times too
Old 05-22-2010, 04:31 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????


ORIGINAL: strtzpmp

do manufacturer use a machine to drain a safe discharge (according to the machine) from a pack and then slap on the sticker or just guess then? could there be a esc with a c-rating moniter that shows results f true real time disharge? wouldnt that be what rc enthusists want to hear from not some meter that pulls out some disharge then shows that out of results.....like ciggs with lights and regulars...the machine that makes it ''lights'' doent cover the holes on the lights filter so it gives false reading unless you too are smoking w/out the holes on the filter covered...people that know this will understand what i mean. or another exp...would be taking results with your fullsize's o2 sensor removed or in a ''perfect'' setting while the truth is not the perfect setting to get more horsepower

You can test them very easily, either with a bank of resistors that simply piss away the energy as heat or as I described before, using a data logging device to monitor pack voltage and motor amp draw. If the pack is manufacturer rated at 40c, has 2 cells and is rated at 4000mah and is dropping to below 3.0v a cell @ 105a then 100a is most likely the max amps it can pull without eating into the burst rating. 100a is only 25c. So you would say the pack was a true 25c pack, which is no bad thing, a genuine 25c is still very strong. A genuine, accurate 'c' rating is one that the majority of lipo users will understand and should be what is used across the industry.

What is being said here is that c rating is meaningless as there is no standardised testing performed across the range. However this is the same in many industries. New car horsepower and weight, is it measured in HP, PS, CV or KW? Is it measured at the wheels on a dyno or at the crank on an engine dyno, and if it is, is it with ancillaries or without ancillaries? Is weight measured fully fuelled or totally dry? Driver or no driver? A base model or a heavier luxury edition that will more accurately model the cars sold to the public? Take our motor ratings system for example, everyone uses a different value for something, is a 10t Losi motor the same as a 10.5t Hobbywing motor? and are those two the same as a 2800kv orion motor? and are those unloaded or loaded ratings? No one really knows without testing the KV firsthand. But the point is the manufacturers claim is meaningless (unless it's used in relation to other products in the same line I.E you can expect a 40c lipo to perform better than a 30c lipo from the same manufacturer, regardless of whether or not both 'c' ratings are strictly accurate) However to say the concept of the 'c' rating is meaningless is misleading. An accurate 'c' rating can be gotten through testing in the same way a motors kv can be tested, a full size car can be put on a dyno to get an accurate reading of horsepower in the real world, on a weighbridge to get an accurate idea of weight when suitable for road use. To assume (and actively promote) that a widely used measurement of performance is meaningless just because no one quite uses a standard means of testing is naive. As I have mentioned, the industry standard... Is a lack of standard.

I have posted an eagletree data graph from a run of a '40c' Acepower 5000mah pack. The packs were run in 4s configuration (2x 2s in series) and at the peak of 181a the pack voltage has dropped below 3.0v per cell. 181a is only 36c, this indicates that these cells would definitely not be comfortable at their rating of 40c. What we really have here is a 40c burst, 25-30c continuous discharge pack.
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:08 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: Maxamps Out of their Mind????

anyone test got2gorc and his 120-200a lipos? he says there 50-100c and packaged himmself without the super horsepower stickers and endorsments....maybe his are actually the reall deal and there not bad on the pocket, anyone buy one off him before?
anyone know of a QUALITY but CHEAP 2s-4s high amp battery at least 2450mah?

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