flight simulators
 

witch flight simulator is beter the g3 or the aerofly pro deluxe

RE: flight simulators
 

Here we go.....;)


Take a surf over to the RC flight simulator forum and you will see that this discussion has been beaten into the ground....

Both are fine, personally I like AFPD, but either would do just fine

RE: flight simulators
 

ok thanks

RE: flight simulators
 

The best one is FMS, because it's free:

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Regards,

:DSuzie:D

RE: flight simulators
 

FMS is horrible, it has poor graphics, filled with bugs, most sellers state it sucks. If you want an educated opinion, get a G2 with the upgrades. G3 hasn't received as good a review, agian, bugs. the G2 has provided thousands of users with good physics and a variety of aircraft to enjoy. FMS can't come close to the code found only in a retail product. Suzie doesn't know which country to bash for writing FMS, read her posts, she's a bigot.

RE: flight simulators
 

G3 is good and the bugs are being fixed.

RE: flight simulators
 

Read the plethora of posts in RCU that already answer your question.

RE: flight simulators
 

I've been using FMS with no problems at all. :)

It has worked great for me. And furthermore, it has helped me to get back into RC and start flying after 20+ years away from the hobby. I crashed models on the simulator many, many times - and that translated into NO CRASHES at the flying field. Which is much better than I ever flew before. :D

Isn't that what a simulator is supposed to do? - Helps you fly better? [sm=confused.gif]
My opinon, based on the above, FMS not only is free, it works great too. [8D]

Of course you may be expecting more (I don't know what it would be) from a simulator than just learning flying and various manuvers. :)

And also, I don't have one of those $$$$ $200+ simulators to compare it to. :D
But isn't that a bit un-fair in the first place, trying to compare a mega buck computor simulator against freeware - and then downing the free one, because it's not like the other in every respect? [sm=confused.gif]
After all, FMS IS FREE, and the others aren't! (as far as I know)[sm=cool.gif]

RE: flight simulators
 

I'm sure people would be happy to say a free plane flew well, a free engine ran, or a free radio worked too, but if you spent money on quality items, you'd realize how much you are missing out on. This also goes for women....

RE: flight simulators
 

Point is - The free one DOES work very well. And does the job a simulator should do - and very well, for me.

What is the point in buying the very high priced one? [sm=confused.gif] Better graphics on a computor screen? [sm=confused.gif] My opinion is that my money can be better spent on better radios, engines and planes for use at the real flying field.

Now if the price of those sims was more in line with other computor software - then maybe. But at $200+ a pop - it HAD BETTER BE more like real flying than - well - even real flying. And clean up my plane for me. And charge my batteries for me. And drive me to the real flying field. And ..... Well, you get the picture.

And - just curious - what in the world does any of this have to do with "This also goes for women...." :)
I'm over half a century old. Women are a completly different subject that very few men understand. :D And at this stage of life, I've found that many of the best things in life are free. Like the beauty of Gods creation, as an example. ;)

I've already wasted many, many dollars on what is supposedly the best, just to be let down by the reality of it. Given enough time - I do finally learn. :D

RE: flight simulators
 

Hea krosypal,

I just read your profile. It looks like you are probably a dealer. And from the comments left by those that buy from you - a VERY GOOD dealer. :)

So, I can now better understand your comments and posts above. :)

Good hobby dealers are like gold - valuable. :D

Best to you.

RE: flight simulators
 

If we are talking about fixed wing starting, take a round and try a landing - i would say fms is not a bad choice. As soon as it starts getting a bid complicated like prop hanging, torqing, indoor flying, I feel that the borders of fms are clearly visible. If we talk rotary wing, I feel that fms promotes an idea of model flying that could be regarded as "dangerous" or at least "careless". Just imagine, somebody thinks he could fly a heli after hours on fms, he goes to a shop and get's a Rappi 90 carbon, tuned to the bottom - ... don't think about it.

I get your point: It's nice to start with, it's free, it safes SOME money. As soon as we start thinking about complex flight conditions, there arn't any free products on the market. Complex 3D flying, fixed wing or rotary wing, calls for programming that can't be done sunday afternoon with a few friends over a cup of coffee. That calls for professional programming, understanding of physics and aerodynamics. In order to let these folks get to an age similar to yours, we have to feed them once in a while. I'm sure you did not get to your age doing everything for free. At the age of 50, your lifetime food intake is about 17 tons plus abt. 23 tons of liquid - somebody HAD to pay for that!

RE: flight simulators
 

OK .. My perspective. :)

3d "flying" didn't exist when I was doing RC years ago and helicopters were just beginning to show up. No flight sims existed, that I'm aware of. And trying to fly those model "whirly birds" was much like the beginnings of RC - build one for however long and fly a few seconds, crash, go get a new set of rotor blades and what ever else you broke and rebuild for however long it took - then repeat the whole process until you either gave up (most likely) or learned to keep one in the air (very unlikely) You needed to own a rotor blade factory, or be rich, or both. :D

Most RCers where modelers first and flyers second. You flew what you built. It was a gentlemans hobby and 99% acted accordingly. Flying leasons were given free by other club members - Why? Because they cared. If you broke your last prop early in the day, most likely a fellow modeler would give you one. I've given away a few that way - and I never lost a dime doing it.

As for helicopters, I don't fly helicopters, and wouldn't if they were giving them away. Same goes for that 3D stuff - hanging it on the prop just isn't my thing. I would rather be actually flying the plane. The beauty of flight and all that.

Now we get to your main argument for paying the big bucks for an RC flight sim - the programmer needs to eat. And THAT is a VERY GOOD argument. We all need to eat, and as you pointed out someone had to pay for my food. And that is true - I PAYED FOR IT! With money I earned doing a job that needed doing. And I believe that most of us in the world operate that same way - we work for money to live on. The one catch here is - is the cost justified by THE PRODUCT - not the need of the programmer to eat. I didn't lock him or her up and make them develop a flight sim. It's something they choose to do. If you overprice your work, you might very well go hungry. Especially when there is a quality product available at a lower cost, or as in this case, free.

So, if I understand your post correctly, the whole argument for the high cost of the sim is based on;

3D "flying" (probably a fad)
Helicopter flying (can't respond to that since I don't do that)
and the need of the programmer to eat

And not that the sim would actually be better at teaching an individual to fly RC planes than FMS.
Is that correct?

If a person will find a need and fill that need at a fair price, they won't have to worry about eating.

One major point in favor of any of the flight sims that I think has been missed, or at least not brought out here, is the entertainment value. One may not be much better than the other as just a flight sim. But one with better graphics may be much more entertaining than another. Along the same lines as many video games. Of course, then you are looking at pricing comparable to other computor games, but then that is a much bigger market too. My son still calls FMS a "computor game". :D And those other sims interest me for that - the entertainment value. The screen shots and the info available about one called Reflex XTR looks interesting to me. But, admittedly, I had never heard of it, or the others for that matter, until a few days ago, in many cases, or a few weeks ago, in other cases.

One other very minor point - I passed 50 some years back. :) (I know- you had no way of knowing) :) And I wouldn't want to be young in this world we live in now. :)

Peace and Happy Flying :)

RE: flight simulators
 

We are getting closer!

"And not that the sim would actually be better at teaching an individual to fly RC planes than FMS.
Is that correct?"

If you target is: Take a Trainer 40 into the air, and get it back to the ground, FMS will do "some" job.
If your target is: Take your helicopter (3D airplane, indoor shock flyer ...) into the air without major breakage, FMS will not do the job. You may face breakage and you will pay for in in view of spares.

Safe that money (spares) and invest in a product that will help and avoid crashes. Let me put it this way: you are paying one way or another, in a crash and frustration or for a good sim. Come on, it's our hobby! My neighbours hobby is his dog. Know what he pays for food, acessories and the doctor? The otherone rides his Harley (say: rides - repairs - cleans - rides - repairs ...). Opposite street: sailing boat - (taking a cold shower and draining 100 dollar bills through the sink).

The rules of the market apply here as they do in other fields. If somebody WOULD be able to produce a high quality sim at 30´$ retail, it WOULD be on the market. Forget the cheap PC games. Even a bad PC-Game sells in 100,000+ a year and feeds the programmer, the distribution and the package designers. There arn't that many modellers to come even close to these figures, even if you would lower the price to 5$.

You are looking for entertaining instead of training: Go for IL-2 Sturmvogel or Forgotten battles. Thrilling, entertaining, already available and rather cheap compared to model sims. Get a transmitter to USB interface cable at 30$ and use the outside view - quite nice.

Generally, you are right. There are these "vintage" modellers, understanding modelling as building, handling wood, covering and flying. There are the ARF modellers, not knowing the smell of glue and wood, builing with a srewdriver. Their fun is thrilling 3D, no matter how the aircraft is built. Two different types, one common hobby. No matter what type you like most, flying is what keeps them all together.

RE: flight simulators
 

No I'm not a dealer but I try to treat RCU members with all the help I can give, but I wasn't trying to sound like a know it all.
I just spent a fortune over the years on this hobby like some do. I don't need to have a stock pile of ARF's I'll never fly, sort of like this country has enough bombs to kill the world population 50 times over, they eventually sell some them worldwide too. :D

I had a decade of inactivity and had to start all over again. Things changed a lot. Flight simulators seemed to be the answer to head to the field with more confidence. I went to the worlds largest and most dishonest auction site, and bought a few simulators. First, the G3 is $200 and requires a $500-1000 computer (new) to run it if you have a fancy video card in an older machine, fine. I don't have either so the lowered graphic setting was very boring. The G2 worked best on my average PC (1GB RAM, XP Pro, 1.8Ghz, NVidia 5200 class onboard video 128MB which is probably the problem) and the physics were great. When I put my hands on a transmitter and fly the same models I'm surprised how well they handle like I'm on the simulator. $200 actually isn't a lot for this software with a transmitter and interface cable. People are just too used to getting their free software and operating systems from buddies they hate to ante up for protected software that won't copy or work with another interface, that I know of anyway. FMS is practical. ;)

If I was a dealer by the way, RCU would toss my a bill for the member level required to list! I appreciate their confidence in my word. How else can I sell at a loss? [&o]

RE: flight simulators
 

" ........ protected software that won't copy or work with another interface ...."

So, that must mean that those expensive sims are not only expensive but copy protected also.
Most 'copy protected' software I've seen over the years is very buggy. Usually due to to the code written in for the protection. That could very well account for most of the complaints about the sims. I remember some games like that where the programmer had an overly-inflated view of the value of his/her game and really piled on the copy protection, which ruined what little was there. The sad truth was, in most cases, the games weren't even worth copying. I suspect these sims may be much like that.

Which, all in all, is another very good reason for NOT buying the expensive sims. Glad I found out. Now I won't waste my money on any of them. :) AND .. that makes FMS just that much more valuable ... not to mention, as you said, practical. ;)

Like you, I've already wasted a ton of money over the past years on this hobby. And after a person is back to flying, a sim just becomes another computer game. Fun, but still it's just on the computer and not the real thing.;)

Which brings us back to the flying :) Which it seems is what it's all about these days. :)
I still hate it that real modelling is gone. But as we all know, things change and time marches on.

Like with the the real modelling, I was looking around for some 'hot fuel proof' paint, which seems to be another relic of the past. Gone and not needed by this new generation of flyers. Can't call them 'modellers' - so they must be just flyers.
Seems RC has lost alot over the years I've been away from it. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it should be just left in the past and that I should find something else to do.

As I had said before - it used to be a gentlemans hobby or sport and we acted accordingly - or most of us did.
Now ..... I don't know what it is ... but it sure isn't what it was.

I always tryed to promote the hobby and help others coming up too. But many in this new generation just don't understand that.

Oh well ......

RE: flight simulators
 

Jeez Ramon...from your twisted logic of why not to buy a sim (it isn't worth copying because it has copy write protection so it must suck even though I have never tried one?) to your view of the good old days and how "the new generation is ruining everything", you really sound miserable.

I say the hobby is better than ever with all the technological improvements to equipment and designs. There is something for everyone and if you want to build like in the old days there is nothing stopping you. People are the same as they ever were and most folks block out the bad stuff and mostly remember the good, hence the "good ole days" syndrom.

I often hear how the hobby has changed because of ARF's and some people are not modelers which I suppose is valid but I know some modelers that are afraid to fly their planes that took many hours to build so they just sit.

Nothing you mentioned detracts from your ability to go out and do what you want in the hobby.

RE: flight simulators
 

I think their can be easily a hobby for everyone, ARFs and kit builders alike. I find sims are useful, I used one and loved it, my kids did too. But nothing replaces flying and learning new things every day. The copy protection is by the way, not in the code, but in the index of the CD which organized the data on the CD. It has nothing at all to do with bugs.

RE: flight simulators
 

Nope not miserable at all. :) In fact pretty happy. :)
However, many things these days ARE very 'twisted'. :D All you have to do is listen to the news to see and hear that. ;)
The time has come where what is right is called wrong and what is wrong is called right. We were warned centuries ago that this time would come - and it has.

As for modelling - If you ever want to try 'modelling' - take a picture of a plane you like, draw yourself some plans to a size you like, then build yourself a model from those plans and fly it. There is nothing - NOTHING - like the satisfaction of watching YOUR plane take to the air for the first time and flying your own plane. My last one was a quarter scale Fokker DR1. Had over $1200 worth of materials in it (and remember, that was many years ago) :), plus a little over two years of building time in it. That particular plane was built straight and light and was meant to fly, which it did very well. I hung it up several years ago. By now the glue joints are old enough to be questionable, so it is now just for display. No ARF can compare to modelling what you like and want to fly.


"The copy protection is by the way, not in the code, but in the index of the CD which organized the data on the CD. It has nothing at all to do with bugs"

Sorry to have to disagree with you, but In the not to distant past, it WAS in the code. I know that for a sure, certain fact - not if, or maybe - but fact. AND, it (the copy protection) had much to do with buggy software. In many cases it was refered to as crippleware. Again, Sorry to have to disagree with you, but that's just the way it was. Programmimg, like everything else, changes too I suppose. And the use of CDs really opened up a whole new world. I remember when those 3.5" floppies first came out and they seemed so big (capacity wise) while being smaller to carry around than the 5.25" floppies. But after some time, it took more and more of even those to put a program on. Another point - All that copy protection is only needed in the mind of the programmer. Some very successful software was written as shareware and made the programmer rich. One example was a game called DOOM. This was probably before your time though.

As to copying software - I have always copied my software the first thing when I get it and then run the program off of my copy. I think it's called 'fair use' or something like that. That way I have a disk that has only been used once to make myself another copy when that first copy goes bad. However, with something that isn't 'copyable' .... the user is left to the mercy of the paranoid company it was bought from, and they always think everybody is stealing them blind. I don't want any part of all that, which is one reason I buy very little if any software these days.

And that doesn't make me unhappy at all. I stay pretty happy by staying away from those things that are wrong and only going with what is right. :D

RE: flight simulators
 

Well there is a perspective that does not surprise me and further discussion would be more appropriate on a differant forum.

But on the topic of sims..... If your joy comes from scratch building that's great. With G3 you could plug in all the parameters of your scratch built design and see how it flies before you ever cut out the first bulkhead. Now tell me that isn't a great improvement in the hobby.

RE: flight simulators
 

Actually .. that's not a matter of perspective or something for discussion... it's straight out facts.
Many will not want to admit it - but it's fact none the less. And should be fit for any forum or any place.
And THAT needed to be said.

As for the hobby being better ... or worse ....
I don't know that it is a matter of better or worse. Mostly - VERY 'different' than before. And as for "the new generation is ruining everything" - I didn't say that - YOU DID.
What I said was - many in this new generation just don't understand. And they don't. And it's their loss. If you don't like what I said, at least get it right when you decide you want to argue about it. :D By-The-Way ...... This is A HOBBY .... except for those that make their living from it, the dealers and such. Why the need to argue????

It appears to me that much of the problem you folks have with me and what I have brought out here is that it isn't the usual pablum you've been fed and isn't altogether politically correct to what you're used to saying back and forth to each other. Too bad. The truth is sometimes that way. I don't do 'politically correct'. And FMS is STILL a top notch sim for flying airplanes.

Much has been added to RC over the years. Probably some good and some bad. Some of the 'good' is the use of EPP foam. As for the example of G3 and plugging paremeters in as being an improvement would depend on IF the programming is right to give an accurate assessment of a design. And the only way you will ever know that is to actually build the plane and fly it. If it is right - then GREAT! But, as with anything, it could very well be wrong too. But then, the sim is probably going to be fun, even if it isn't accurate. :)

RE: flight simulators
 

Well Ramon, it comes down to the "fact" that you appearently havn't tried the other sims so you really don't know what you are talking about do you? As for the other topics your "facts" are just opinions and old wives tales to suit your beliefs in the hobby and in life. I get the impression that you are equally open minded about those subjects as you are about the sims.

You can have the last word in this now off topic thread as discussing opinions with you is a waste of both of our time.

RE: flight simulators
 

I can't see any reason to go on with this argument. Obviously, ramons knowledge about computers, software and copy protection is that far off-track, that convincing ramon means feeding a few terrabyte of knowledge first. That's a job nobody can do in a forum. He has his ideas, he doesn't harm anybody, he doesn't have the flying skils to see the difference - so why bother? That story about crapy software with copy protection really produced a big smile on my face. Now I understand why people like AutoCad, SolidWorks and ElectronicArts never made real big companys ... I mean you hear the whole story every evening in your favorite pub. Watch out for the guys arguing that their 25 years old beetle is so superior to any modern car because ... or the other guys on the field, proudly showing their 25 years old ugly stick 2 axis, repaired to a level I would call unrecognisable with 2 pounds more weight due to 25 years of repairs. That guy approached me and told me "in the past they still knew to produce real solid models". I mean, he really had a chance to learn flying for 25 years but obviously never took it!

RE: flight simulators
 

I can't stop laughing, this was good! I completely agree.

Centuries ago we were also told some people would not be open to any agreement...

RE: flight simulators
 

Hmmm, came here to look at opinons for different flight simulators. I wil try my browsers search function.