RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Brian,

I am impressed that FSOne is reading this post. Let me say for one that I have a PC sim, (and a PC just for it) and I would not buy a new simulator unless it was for the Mac, so I could get rid of the PC.

Thanks for listening to the MACers. BTW I read today that the Macers are about 25 million strong.

Rob

This was written on a MAC!

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Hi Pilot,

I was sent here. I have a G4 and G5 and downloaded the shareware of x plane. I have a Spectrum DX6 controller. Have you been able to get your controller to see a MAC and vice versa?

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

A native Mac flight sim would be nice, and I'd buy it. All of this talk about the nature of the Mac software market is nothing but conjecture and speculation. Nobody has done any real work to determine what percentage of RC'ers use a Mac or are considering buying a Mac. Mac users tend to have higher incomes and more disposable income than the average PC user. What's to say that there isn't a profitable Mac market out there for a company that is willing to do a little research?

Back when I was a moderator here, I sometimes would check out the stats pages that Marc V. had about the types of browsers and platforms that RCU visitors had. That would seem to be the logical place to start any such research.

The other option that nobody ever mentions is to use a Mac game porting company. As I understand it, what generally happens there is that the porting companies bid on the rights to port a game. The original developer/publisher has nothing substantial to use. They receive licensing payments from the porting company. Flight sims just aren't as complex as many of the games that are ported now, so it should be a relatively low-cost project which would make it more attractive to the porting companies.

There isn't an RC sim on the Mac simply because of the persistence of several myths dating back to the mid-90s. One would think that in the highly competitive RC sim market someone would be looking for an advantage and a market that their competitors can't touch, but the vision seems to be a bit narrow.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

sorry for this , but FMS offer a MAC simulator. I do not (long wait) have a MAC so I can not try it. sorry agian. The mac ads are very funny and I will upgrade in the future. I know you guys probally are not looking to save a buck, but maybe some would like to try it. I really enjoy FMS and really really enjoy spending $200 on real planes instead game. Is the learning curve for switching from PC to MAC bad?

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

WHat's FMS?

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Sorry, it is Flying Model Simulator, it is freeware from germany or somewhere. I have over 250 planes on mine and made pic interface cable to use my tx, the cable cost $12 for a futaba/hitec trianer cord that was hacked and soldered to plug into the mic on my pc. the site is www.flying-model-simulator.com ,check it out , the mac version is there somewhere. All the plans and downloads are on the site to, try the links page and the forum.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Here are some planes on FMS.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

What the page you refer to discusses for the Mac isn't FMS. It's a dead link that redirects to a page no longer lists the heli simulator.

There isn't a version of FMS for the Mac.

What strikes me in all this is the amount of competition in the PC RC simulator business. There are what, 3-4 commercial products, plus FMS? Where does a new product such as FS One expect their sales to come from? That market isn't full of people anxious to buy yet another RC sim. Of the Windows RC'ers likely to purchase a sim, how many of them already have done so? Are the commercial sims just trying to cannibalize each others' market share? Where's the growth going to come from?

My guess is that nobody has ever done a market analysis here.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Really sorry guys I should have tried it before opening my mouth to insert foot. I had no reason to get in on your guys tread anyway, sorry again. FMS is OK on the PC, try it if you get a chance and see what you think.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Brian,

I'll put my money where my wishes are.
Where can I place a deposit for a mac native version of FSone?

Dave

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

I have Fs one and it is installed on a a compter that Horizon said it would work good but it is jumpy and not fun to fly Does anyone no if I can install this on anothers computer I am thing of Buying a new system????

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

you may just need to upgrade your video card, or get a little more memory.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

i upgraded my powerbook to a macbook just so i could buy a sim, running afpd right now, it runs perfect except for the smoke feature- it will slow down... but its great for only a 64 mb video card. big price i had to pay for a sim.

for all those people that have an intel mac but don't want to "plague" their system with windows, remember 2 things. 1) if you're really worried, just don't connect to the internet and that will reduce a lot of the risk. 2) I run windows with good virus protection, and when i've had a problem i just wipe the windows particion and reinstall windows... doesn't affect the mac side. heh.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Do you use bootcamp or the parallels desktop? I have one of the intel based imacs and plan to do the same ( although I'd really rather have a mac native version)

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

I'd assume he's using Bootcamp. Parallels won't allow for any DirectX graphics.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Here's a thread I put up showing how to load Boot Camp, WinXP and FS One onto your Intel Mac. So far, FS One is running perfectly on my MacBook Pro laptop.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594946

MikeL is right, you can't run a sim using Parallels yet.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

I have a Mac that is running Boot Camp and it seems to run the simulator fine. I do think that they should offer more than just a version for PC however.

Nathan

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

add me to the apple petition!

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Dirt driver, what mac do you have? I have a g5, and was wondering what os I need to upgrade to run bootcamp on it.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Bootcamp isn't something you run. It enables booting into Windows. In order to use it, you have to have an Intel Mac. A G5 can't make use of it.

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Hi all,

Just to let you know, I am running Aeroflight Pro Delux under Bootcamp on my MacBook Core 2 Duo (not Pro) with complete sucess including smoke and all the other little extras. I have not tried the 2 flyer mode as yet and have only used a game commander as I am waiting for a lead for my Multiplex transmitter.

The shared graphics does not seem to have any trouble dealing with the sim at all. I do not think a RC sim puts too much demand on any system especially when compared to any of the current crop of 3D games with all the moving characters, effects, scenery, etc.

You do need Windows XP with service pack 2, all on one disk for the Bootcamp installation, although I did initially use and earlier 2 disk version to see if the sim would work, it had no sound but worked fine in all other respects.

Hope some of this helps the other Mac users out there,

Rich

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Here is more info,

I purchased a 20 inch iMac and upgraded the video memory to 256. That was the only change. I am now running G3 under bootcamp and Windows XP without any noticable problems. I haven't done anything too taxing but so far it is running well.

Hope this helps someone.

Mike

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Anyway Dudes,

There is a RC sim avilable for non Intel macs and it is free!!

It was put together by the Charles River Radio Club for linux/unix but has been ported to OSX.

Here is the link to the info site wich then links to the download site.

http://crrcsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/

It is really good for the glider guiders with slope & flat field sites.

So give it a whirl, what have you got to lose?

Rich

;)

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Okay, here's the deal for anyone searching for this stuff:

Parallels Desktop won't handle the DirectX graphics, and it's EMULATION anyway, so the processor is loaded up from the get-go just pushing the client OS, let alone a sim that taxes resources heavily itself. This is not an option.
BootCamp, however, is simply a set of drivers for Intel Based Mac hardware to run Windows natively. Besides a set of Apple assisted drivers, all Boot Camp is is a "boot loader"... it lets you choose which of 2 bootable sections of your hard disc to work from: One may have Windows installed, and one may have Mac OS installed. Once you've booted into windows on an Intel Mac, I don't care if you call it a Mac, a "Windows Box", a PC, or a 'puter...it's all the same. Mac is a brand name, just like Dell, IBM, WinBook, AlienWare or eMachines (to name a few.) BootCamp Macintosh computers running Windows XP or Vista are running all commercial R/C flight sims very well. (This has been thoroughly discussed in the G3.x forums, and alluded to in the Apple forums as well.)

I've got a 20" iMac right here in front of me (no need to go to an Apple Store!) At the moment, I'm typing this in Internet Explorer 7 running on WinXP Pro, and G3.5 is minimized (so I don't crash while I type this!) It runs great! With a stock install of Windows, I dropped my AV/Firewall software on the machine, let everything (Windows and Norton) do their updating, then on goes G3.x from the factory discs. You will need to put the machine online to update/upgrade Windows, Antivirus/Firewall, and the Flight Sim... (1 existing virus/trojan for Mac, 80,000 per day for Windows... do YOU want to run without protection?)

The MacBook Pro is reported to run G3.x very well. I have first hand experience with this 20" iMac and a dual-Xeon 3Ghz Mac Pro. Both run G3 very well... even on a bad day, my frame rates rarely drop below 85... most times I stay in the 200-250 range, and I fly lots of the fast, snappy 3D stuff that taxes these systems at 1680x1050 resolution. Helis do just as well. My Mac Pro is also connected to my 65" TV via DVI/HDMI, and pushes that external video just fine.... although my wife almost killed me when I told her I wasn't limited to good weather days to fly anymore! ;-)

I've installed G3.5 and FS One on a Mac Pro at an Apple Store, and both looked amazing on quad 30" cinema displays... (yes, that's 4 monitors arranged and shoved close together.) The only problem we had with that rig was that the Interlink for G3 doesn't like to have a USB extension cable added to the cord, and with the 6' cord, we couldn't get far enough away from that giant display to keep our eyes from hurting and our heads from nearly exploding. Frame rates were consistently above 300 with all details and textures maxed and full anti-aliasing in effect on the video hardware.

I've heard some concern about the basic Mac Books and the Mac Minis since they use lower-end video and don't quite have the processing horsepower as the rest of the lineup. I've not personally tested anything, but I've heard that FS One runs okay on a maxed out Mini.

Now for the folks who feel they "need to have a Windows PC in the house just to fly the sim".... No you don't! When I first bought G3, I had a dual P4 Dell Dimension system built to run it (and a bit of Photoshop work for my job). It ran okay... never got anything maxed out on the settings though. 2 years ago, that machine cost a little over $6000. Today, I'm running G3.5 smoother and better on my iMac that only costs around $2000. Oh, and as an added bonus, Mac OS comes with all the apps I need to function at work and at home. The ONLY things I use the Windows side of the machine for are G3, FS One, and TiVo Desktop because until next month, TiVo-to-go transfers aren't available in Mac OS. (When we're not flying a sim, we're all watching The Apprentice on our iPod or cell phone, right?)

How much does a Windows PC cost these days if you add a legal copy of MS Office, Creative Suite and Internet Security, and equip the hardware the same? I've got a $1500 machine that can do all of that, AND fly G3.5... I won't even get into the built-in webcam (at more than double the resolution of anything on a Windows machine), remote control, WiFi, Bluetooth, and lack of crashes/hangs... that's all standard stuff, right?

In politics as in computers, money talks. The idea that a company (or politician) will do something just because a few hundred folks put their names down on paper (or in a forum) has always seemed silly to me. Would I buy a Mac native R/C flight simulator if it was any good... count my vote as a resounding YES. Do I think it's likely to happen no matter how much we yell? Nope. Will I be holding my breath waiting for one? No way! I'll just exist happily with my ONE computer that gives me the best of both worlds...

As for the discussion I read earlier (in this thread) about who ripped off whom... ALL of this stuff started on a 6502 processor.... anyone written any 6502 machine code lately? [8D]

-Case

RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!
 

Actually Parallels, like VMware, doesn't emulate the CPU, though they do emulate peripherals such as hard drives and video cards. That's why Parallels and VMware can only run guest OSes that work on the same CPU that the the virtual machine is running on. For example you can't run a 64 bit guest OS in VMware running on a 32 bit CPU host machine. VirtualPC on the other hand is actually an emulator.

What Parallels and VMware do is actually allow the guest OS to run most machine instructions directly on the CPU. Through various dirty tricks they manage to trap machine instructions which a user program would not be allowed to make, such as attempts to directly access hardware, and only emulate those instructions. The result is that much of the time, programs running in Parallels or VMware run at the same speed as if they weren't running in a virtual machine. However disk I/O and graphics output are usually slower. So while it may be true that Phoenix won't run very well under Parallels, I wouldn't assume that for sure other than lack of DirectX support.

As for DirectX support, Parallels claims to be releasing a new beta by the end of this year which supports DirectX in guest OSes, and which runs games fine. We'll see whether that's true. I'm hoping so, since I just bought Phoenix and am getting a new PowerBook Pro. I'll use Bootcamp if I have to, but I'd rather be able to run games in Parallels. If it does work, I think that will go a long way to solving the problem which prompted this thread.

Here's the page on Parallels which talks about DirectX support: http://parallelsvirtualization.blogs...are-is-in.html