G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

I have been into the RealFlight sims since they came out. I have 12 discs of upgrades and so on. I have spent maybe $450.00 or more on these and now they expect me to spend a few hundred more minus the less than generous rebate they offer. I won't spend anymore money with RealFlight I will use the money for a different sim. Am I alone in this feeling that I am being played like a dummy for my money or what???

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

they saw it worked for Bill Gates so they figured they better get in on it:D

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

You know, I bought a new car this year.

Are they playing me for a fool because I wanted a new car. Darned if I hadn't upgraded the wheels and tires on the old one. And had put a deflector on the sunroof.

And darned if that old one would RUN!

But I decided I wanted the 6cyl and the 4 was good, but that 6 was better. So I went down to the dealer and guess what. They wanted me to pay for the new car. And wanted more money if I wanted the better wheels etc.

What do they take me for, a dummy?

Now why in the world don't they simply give me a new one since I was nice enough to have bought one already??????????? Or maybe only charge me something like 25% of the cost of the new one. After all, they're going to sell thousands and thousands of those cars. And I bought one from them a couple of years ago.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

da rock,with your thinking this why if I get to fly at the same time you are in the air, I will take your plane out,but you can up grade to something else,so there is no problem. RIGHT? PUB

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

da rock, If you constantly bought upgrades to your car and after that you found you didn't really have a top product you might be tempted to go to a car dealer that treated you like a good customer and not a source for a constant income on an inferior product. It must be inferior if after spending all that money they want you to buy another one so they can upgrade it .

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Basically BS

Everything that is sold today works under the same rules.

If you want it, and can afford it, you can buy it if YOU wish. It's YOUR decision.

RealFlight has no way to make you buy G4. So why whine about there being a G4.

Are you torqued off at your car dealer because he came out with a newer model? Why not, you're crying about there being a newer and better flight sim.

And are pushing the idea that the problem is with RealFlight. It isn't.

You presently have an excellent purchase. It works, right? And as good or better than the day you bought it, because KE and RF are profitable and have produced updates for it and patches to fix it. Your G3.5 is as good or better than your present car. You still drive that car right. You wouldn't even consider walking just because there are newer and better ones available.


You know......... this thread started out with marginal value to anyone. Let's see if anyone can post something of value about upgrading from G3.5 to G4.

Simply complaining doesn't cut it. Come up with something worthwhile.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

You know......... this thread started out with marginal value to anyone other than stgrlee.

Let's see if anyone can post something of value about upgrading from G3.5 to G4.

Simply complaining doesn't cut it. Come up with something worthwhile that will help anyone with the upgrading from 3.5 > 4.

The purpose of these forums is to help others. They're not just places to complain or bash. This thread started out on shaky ground. Don't turn it into quicksand.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Hi da Rock
You are doing a great job moderating this forum. I agree with you and support you. I have the GP G3.0 so I check this site occasionally.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

You're absolutely correct. The purpose of this forum is to help.

Sorry, I can't think of anything worthwhile with upgrading from G3.5 to G4.0 My "help" is to let everyone who owns RealFlight G3.5 know that there is no need or benefit to upgrade to RealFlight G4.0. (in my opinion)

Unless ... you'd like to deal with the new physics issues that have come to light with the new G4.0; Or, you'd like to loose all of your "Add-On" airports and planes; Or you'd like to upgrade your graphics card to be able to handle the higher demands required be G4.0; or deal with any of the recent bugs that have been discovered...

Of course, if you are ready, willing and able to deal with all of that then you'll get to have some water areas to fly in and some thermal glider flying areas - and of course you'll also get to lighten your wallet by about $200.

Me ...? I don't fly off of water and the only thermalling I do I prefer to do outdoors where I can enjoy it. Watching a glider "dot-out" on my computer screen just doesn't do much for me.

Well, that's my opinion - I hope that helps.;)

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Stgrlee,

No, I'm sure you're not alone. Lots of people do not see the value in upgrading to the latest version of any particular software. In fact, whether or not the value is worth the cost is truly a personal decision.

There are at least two components to the value of a new version of software: For the developer/manufacturer, they see value as increased because they paid programmers vast sums of money to 1) ensure it works with the latest version of Windows OS and Intel processor, etc, and 2) has new/improved features or performance that existing or potential customers tell the developer they want. So they honestly and rightly (for them) feel the additional/increased price is justifiable. They're not trying to play you for a dummy*; they just want to get paid for what they do.

But for the customer, the value lies in what the product 'does' for them. That's a very subjective measurement; one person really really really wants to fly floatplanes over rippling water, but another is happy to do without. One person wants to fly at night at the carnival, and another is just happy learning which way to point the plane in the daytime. They will assign different values to the new version and see the cost justification very differently.

Of course, many people, like you, feel like after spending a certain amount they're entitled to the new version at no additional cost. I see your point, and don't entirely disagree. The reason the 'automobile upgrade' explanation doesn't work for me is that, so long as you keep it maintained, a car is likely to run on any road far into the forseeable future. Maintenance is needed, but cars generally don't get kicked off the road for having older technology. And if you do decide to 'upgrade' your car, you usually get something from the dealer for the trade-in.

On the other hand, PC technology changes so fast that at some point older PC operating systems become unsupported and practically impossible to maintain--one is FORCED to upgrade the OS, and frequently that means paying out-of-pocket to upgrade the hardware and software as well, usually with no trade-in value. If hardware and OS development ever stabilizes, or if software is improved to the point that it will run independent of the two, then it'll be more like the car market. For now, if the developer has to invest real money to keep the software current in the market, somebody has to pay them to do it. That's us.

With all that said: I didn't see the value (for me) in G4, so I bought G3.5 (at a nice discount from its original MSRP) and will stick with it until at some future point someone (maybe GP/Knife Edge, maybe some other company) offers something I think is worth what it will cost me to upgrade/switch. They are allowing 3.5 users to 'trade-in' for 4 at $100 or so, right?

Unless you yourself see $100 worth of value in the features or performance of the new version, stick with what you've got--until you have upgraded your hardware and/or OS to the point that your older version will not run anymore. Then the value of having version 4 (or 4.5, or 5, or....?) may seem worth the $ cost. Like having a car that requires leaded gas, I guess. Time to park it and get a new one.

Hope this was helpful.


* Their marketing department, however, IS trying to play you for a dummy. They will do everything (short of telling a provable lie) to convince you that you NEED the new version. As with any product, you need to look past the marketing hype to make your own decision about whether or not the new capabilties are worth, for YOU, the cost of admission. If not, do not give them your money.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Fellas,
I got the new G4 for Christmas, and will be glad to give a full report as soon as I upgrade my computer to be able to play with it( ordered a new graphics card today!). Software like this is kind of like cameras... just because there is a new model out there, it doesn't mean that yours won't take pictures anymore, just the new one may take them better. Should the manufacturers give us the new version because they came out with something better? I don't think so! I shoot archery also, and new bows come out all the time. I can chose to either keep my current setup, which will drop a deer or turkey dead as 4 o'clock, or I can get on the " gotto have something better" bandwagon and buy a new bow. If the manufacturers didn't improve technology and come out with newer and better things( even though charging for them keeps them in business), then we would not have anything new to play with, and things would get pretty boring pretty quick. The real question with all this stuff is how fast can you afford/ want to afford to go? Software in my opinion is like any other product, new stuff coming out all the time. If the software is defective, or the manufacturer has made a fix to make the product work better, then most of them do give free updates, just like GP/ Knife Edge does( I have already downloaded an update for my G4 software). As far as trade in values are concerned, the manufacturer giving anything off for the previous version owners is generous in my book. Just like trading in cars, if the dealership doesn't give you enough for your trade in, either sell it yourself to buy the new one, or just don't trade.
My 2 cents,
Bryan
A happy RF G4 owner

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Hmm.... for a $100 bill I'd consider upgrading, but IIRC the "rebate" is $30.00??????

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Depending on when you bought G3 or G3.5, you can get $100 merchandise or $50 cash if you have a receipt
or $75 mdse or $30 cash if you threw away the receipt.

I bought my new G4 at our club's recent swap meet for $185. One of the LHSs had a section of tables and brought a pile of stuff. I sent in for the $75 rebate.

So my G4 cost me $110.00 and I sold my G3 at the same swap meet so................. G4 cost me close to nothing. Or about the price of an Expansion Pack. Or $110 depending on how you look at it.

Was I forced to do all that by GP or RF? Nope. Did anybody force me to do anything? Nope. Did it cost me more than I wished to spend? Nope. Did it cost me less than I was willing to spend? Yup.

Would I have still have excellent value and enjoyment if I'd simply kept using G3.5 as is? You betcha.

The value of an item you bought to use and found to be extremely useful does not diminish simply because there are newer versions available.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

I'll agree that the item does not diminish in value from the perspective of the individual user. But, G3.5 has already been greatly diminished in value by RealFlight simply because of the existing bugs and issues that it still has and will not be corrected.

G3.5 was last upgraded to G3.50.065 on Sept 24, 2007, just days (24 to be exact) before the announcement of G4.0. There are at least a dozen or more bugs and issues that still exist with that software. But, neither RealFlight nor KnifeEdge will address them. That, in my opinion, amounts to customer deceit and product fraud.

Every product that is sold carries an implied warrenty of marketability. RealFlight released a product that was less then perfect and not as advertised. They then proceeded to make it "marketable" to the existing - and future - customers by software updates. They then stopped that process when G4.0 was released. Making the product (G3.5) less then it was advertised to be. And, essentially deceiving the public.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

I love this car comparison when talking about the G4.0 "upgrade". I'm sorry I missed it before.

There's just one flaw with this comparison ... You're leaving out the fact that the dealer never delivered the car that you bought -

You have a car that you've bought and like a lot. The problem is that it has a few problems. No big deal since your dealer has been fixing those problems. Although they've become so numerous that he's having a hard time keeping up. You and the rest of the people who own the same make and model have told the dealer that certain things "need" to be fixed, other items "should" be fixed and a few things "would be nice" if they got fixed.

Then your dealer comes out with a new model, fixing a lot of the things that you've asked him to fix. The problem is that it's a "new" model. And, oh by the way, he's no longer going to do anything with the problems that you've asked him to fix on your model ... if you want those things fixed you'll have to buy the "new" model.

Based on your comparison you'd just go ahead and buy the new model and not think twice about it. Does that sound right to you?

It doesn't quite seem fair or ethical to me ... but hey, that's just me.

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

Just wanted to dive in because I have 3.5 and too have been dazzled by the look of the new showroom model in G4. Just sent someone new to the hobby to get it. I too have all the add on discs (1-5) and my big concern was backwards compatibility to 3.5

I do know that any of the "expansion packs" are supposed to be compatible to G4 and 3.5/3 and that is what they are posting. as much as I like the add ons, I have going to the swap pages and flying many of the planes found on the knife edge website. For the 3.5 group there is a thrust vectoring SU 30 that is one of the most fun aircraft I have ever flown. I don't know when some of this talent will make its way to the G4 swaps, but this car is running alright for now.

I think I may pop for the G4, but would like to hear from anyone if they have purchased it, and had success using an expansion pack for 3.5

Good discussion

RE: G3.5 upgrade to G4
 

I'm using expansion packs with G4 that I bought and used with G3. No problem using them with the newer release.