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Ether

Old 08-04-2005, 08:25 PM
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rmayer123
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Default Ether

I needed some ether to mix diesel fuel. The auto engine starting fluids contain 50% unknowns; how this can be used by itself is a mystery. One can showed N-HEPTANE and any reference I could find for it claimed it should never be used in a IC engine. So how come it's used in the starting fluids? I distilled the ether out in a closed system using a small retort, condenser and a Top Flight monocoat heat gun; very tedious but it worked. The Top Flight heat gun uses a switch that can't handle the current which melts and fails; shame on Top Flight.
For larger quantities, which may interest the down under modelers, ether can be made from ethyl alcohol. See: http://yarchive.net/chem/ether_make.html
Old 08-04-2005, 09:00 PM
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Jack Hiner
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Default RE: Ether

John Deere starting fluid contains 80% ether. I count the remaing 20% as kerosene. Could be counted as lube as it is upper cylinder lubricant (oil) per label. I have used John Deere starting fluid with no problems mixing diesel fuel for my 2.5 cc Oliver Jaguar diesel engines. One of the Jaguar diesel engines has over 400 runs with home made mix, Red Max and Olde English Mix. It is still running strong. Olde English Mix gives the same performance as my home made fuel in the Jaguars. Jack
Old 08-05-2005, 02:07 AM
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Default RE: Ether

For larger quantities, which may interest the down under modelers, ether can be made from ethyl alcohol. See: http://yarchive.net/chem/ether_make.html
Dehydration of ethanol with sulfuric acid give the result:
{C2H5-O-H + H-O-C2H5} -----> C2H5-O-C2-H5 + H2O

Or in text for not chemist people:

{Ethanol + Sulphuric acid} -----> destillated in 140 degree celsius ----> Diethyl ether + Water

C2H5-O-H = Ethanol
H-O-C2H5 = Sulphuric acid
H2O = Water

You get the ether C2H5-O-C2-H5 as common called Diethyl ether or Sulphuric ether

The Diethyl ether give strong smell cause liqiud has O-C2 .

Be careful, the ether are extreme flammable if you make own ether[X(]

The auto engine starting fluids contain 50% unknowns; how this can be used by itself is a mystery. One can showed N-HEPTANE and any reference I could find for it claimed it should never be used in a IC engine.
I has used Turtlle Wax start fluid and other brands, it worked well... difference chemical in the start fluid are not harmful in the model engine.

Jens Eirik
Old 08-05-2005, 06:36 AM
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Default RE: Ether

ERNIE>tHIS IS A PROCEDURE THAT IS QUITE DANGEROUS FOR HOME COOKING OF ETHER. John Deere starter fluid is available in most of the world and about 80% ether-- in the US of course DAVIS FUEL, and a couple others can be bought, Since fuels cannot be shipped overseas from the USA davis does say John Deere is fine to use in formulas outside of the US. You may be subject to a liabilty
issue by suggesting this in the event of an accident. Heat guns and similar devices have brushed AC motors and generate sparks. I would guess the chance of fire and explosion would be quite high being sprayed with hot sulfuric acid and flaming components would result in severe injury and even death. martin
\;
Old 08-05-2005, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Ether

One can showed N-HEPTANE and any reference I could find for it claimed it should never be used in a IC engine. So how come it's used in the starting fluids?
rmayer123.
An IC engine is generally regarded as a fuel burning engine that requires a heat source (glow plug/spark plug) to ignite the fuel mixture. A diesel engine is not IC, it is CI (Compression Ignition) therfore the starter capsules are safe to use.
Old 08-05-2005, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: Ether

Thanks for all who answered; good information. I don't think I would want to make my own ether, even though I have all of the ingredients, as DDD fuel isn't that expensive but for those who have no choice the link shown gives a starting point. There are dangers there that I probably don't know of and the choice of a heat gun that uses an AC motor (no brushes) for the fan is one that I do know. I have tried to find John Deere starting fluid with no result and searching their web page does not show any starting fluid. With 80% ether and 20% unknowns that don't effect the mix but counts as kerosene gives room to adjust the mix with kerosene or lamp oil. 50% starting fluid gives almost no room to to do the same thing as only oil would be added to a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix and can N-HEPTANE be used in place of kerosene or lamp oil? I will have to hunt more to find a John Deere dealer that has the starting fluid.
Old 08-05-2005, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Ether

For John Deere starting fluid do a Google search on John Deere. Pick a John Deere dealer in the rural farm areas and call to see if they have the starting fluid. Worked for me, Jack in Western suburbs of Chicago Illinois. I had to drive about 30 miles to get the starting fluid.
Old 08-06-2005, 04:38 AM
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Default RE: Ether

Jens Eirik

Do you know the percentage of ether in Turtle Wax starting fluid?

Could you give as you recipe for mixing 1 liter of diesel fuel, using Turtle Wax starting fluid instead of pure ether?


Tomas H.
Old 08-06-2005, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Ether

Hej... has not knowledge how much are ether in the Turtle wax startfluid. My engines starting easy means there are enough ether..

I am using 33% ether, 25% castoroil or 10w40/15W50 motoroil and 42% kerosene or autodiesel, 1/1/1 for break-in new engine.

Jens Eirik
Old 08-06-2005, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: Ether

Hej igen,

So you would use 33 centilitres of Turtle Wax starting fluid for one liter of diesel fuel, same as if you were using straight ether?

Tomas
Old 08-09-2005, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Ether

Hej Tomas.

I always use starting fluids as if they are all ether. This has worked well in my PAW and Webra diesels. John Deere starting fluid is available locally so I use it most often.

Vi ses, Dennis Hansen.
Old 08-10-2005, 01:34 AM
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Default RE: Ether

Tack Dennis,

I appreciate your input.
I will try that too, using the Turtle Wax stuff, which seems to be what´s available over here.

Tomas


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