Ignition for gas engines
12-16-2013, 09:41 AM
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Ignition for gas engines
Hi guys,
I used to run a few 1/5 gas cars, mostly with CY and Zenoah 23-30.5cc engines.
I'm currently flying giant scale rc airplanes with gas engines.
These engines use an electronic ignition unit with battery and small pickup over the shaft.
A thought came up in my mind, why not to use electronic ignition over the stock magneto style ignition in the cars ?
You can get electronic ignition for 40-60$ and just to install the pickup instead of the coil in the car engine. (and a small battery or the rx battery with noise filter)
Since these electronic ignitions have auto advance and stronger spark, it should be interesting to test it.
Anyone tried that or heard about this ?
I know msd had a unit for these engines but it was designed for scooters/gopeds.
Thanks,
Roei
I used to run a few 1/5 gas cars, mostly with CY and Zenoah 23-30.5cc engines.
I'm currently flying giant scale rc airplanes with gas engines.
These engines use an electronic ignition unit with battery and small pickup over the shaft.
A thought came up in my mind, why not to use electronic ignition over the stock magneto style ignition in the cars ?
You can get electronic ignition for 40-60$ and just to install the pickup instead of the coil in the car engine. (and a small battery or the rx battery with noise filter)
Since these electronic ignitions have auto advance and stronger spark, it should be interesting to test it.
Anyone tried that or heard about this ?
I know msd had a unit for these engines but it was designed for scooters/gopeds.
Thanks,
Roei
12-16-2013, 09:55 AM
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i think oddified must use this set up with their programmable ecu http://www.oddified.com/services.php
12-17-2013, 09:22 AM
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Oddified ECU is a great and durable product.
If you think about using airplane ignition in a car engine then first check the ignition advance graph. Cars need more ignition advance in low rpms and close to zero advance around 20.000 rpms. Airplane ignition is not as radical. They can be made to work but are always a compromise. I have done both these styles. Both can be really good but you can go wrong with airplane ignition. With Oddified you cannot.
If you think about using airplane ignition in a car engine then first check the ignition advance graph. Cars need more ignition advance in low rpms and close to zero advance around 20.000 rpms. Airplane ignition is not as radical. They can be made to work but are always a compromise. I have done both these styles. Both can be really good but you can go wrong with airplane ignition. With Oddified you cannot.
12-17-2013, 12:05 PM
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Oddified ECU is a great and durable product.
If you think about using airplane ignition in a car engine then first check the ignition advance graph. Cars need more ignition advance in low rpms and close to zero advance around 20.000 rpms. Airplane ignition is not as radical. They can be made to work but are always a compromise. I have done both these styles. Both can be really good but you can go wrong with airplane ignition. With Oddified you cannot.
If you think about using airplane ignition in a car engine then first check the ignition advance graph. Cars need more ignition advance in low rpms and close to zero advance around 20.000 rpms. Airplane ignition is not as radical. They can be made to work but are always a compromise. I have done both these styles. Both can be really good but you can go wrong with airplane ignition. With Oddified you cannot.
My airplane DLE 30CC with electronic ignition is set to 46 degress but I can play with that and it has auto advance.
12-18-2013, 10:42 AM
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Yes, but the key is what you just wrote: advance.
That is wrong. Car engine needs retard as rpms rise. And 46 degrees is WAY too much basic advance for a car engine. With MX engines you usually start around 18-20 degrees of advance then gradually reduce the advance towards zero. At 20.000 rpms you start to need the ignition to fire even after TDC. 30 degrees is a good average and depending on the airgap even fixed timing does little retarding.
Airplane engines are built for a flat power curve and they fight against air which creates a completely different need for ignition advance than a car engine battling with clutch, gears, tires and ground.
That is wrong. Car engine needs retard as rpms rise. And 46 degrees is WAY too much basic advance for a car engine. With MX engines you usually start around 18-20 degrees of advance then gradually reduce the advance towards zero. At 20.000 rpms you start to need the ignition to fire even after TDC. 30 degrees is a good average and depending on the airgap even fixed timing does little retarding.
Airplane engines are built for a flat power curve and they fight against air which creates a completely different need for ignition advance than a car engine battling with clutch, gears, tires and ground.
12-18-2013, 01:57 PM
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That's really insteresting info.
I found that most electronic ignition for airplane are limited to 10000-12000 rpm which is a bit under the cars and boats rpm. (G230RC rated at about 2.2HP at 12500rpm)
Also, I've found a company that sell electronic ignition conversion for cars and boat:
http://www.power-spark.de/
I found that most electronic ignition for airplane are limited to 10000-12000 rpm which is a bit under the cars and boats rpm. (G230RC rated at about 2.2HP at 12500rpm)
Also, I've found a company that sell electronic ignition conversion for cars and boat:
http://www.power-spark.de/
Last edited by TooLy; 12-19-2013 at 12:49 PM.
12-18-2013, 02:24 PM
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Power Spark is a very interesting product. I have planned to purchase a unit from there for one of projects that I built. It now has aviation ignition and is not the best solution but works ok.
12-19-2013, 12:52 PM
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Aviation? which one ?
What is the idea to retard the ignition ? from my knowledge, IC engines needs to advance the ignition as rpm goes up so why it's different in MX or in our rc gas cars ?
What is the idea to retard the ignition ? from my knowledge, IC engines needs to advance the ignition as rpm goes up so why it's different in MX or in our rc gas cars ?
