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info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Old 02-25-2005, 09:34 PM
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funshawstud
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Default info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

I have been looking for some info or math equations on turbo/super charging model engines. I would like to build a one of a kind system for my car for my next machining project.
I know it is done all the time in the model engine builders hobbie but personaly have not seen it used in 1/5 cars planes or boats.
Has anyone got any info or pics of such a thing on a gas powered model ??
Thanks for any info in advance
I am hoping to come up with somthing like this for the one cylynder we have. this is a ken hurst design. He builds come very cool miniature engines.
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Old 02-26-2005, 07:02 AM
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ibstar
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

i have seen the V8 blowers on the model t and cobra models.
but they are for scale running really.
i looked into these alot for a boat project but they really don't have the power for out and out speed.
try
http://www.conleyprecision.com/products.htm
got the cars on there. i found video somewhere they do sound good
Old 02-27-2005, 04:33 PM
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JRexA
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Turbochargers and superchargers/blowers are fine for 4 strokes, but of almost no use on our 2 strokes.

The 2 strokes has an exhaust port that opens first and closes last, most if not all the additional pressure you generates on the Intake will just blow out the open exhaust port when the Intake closes.

If you could bouild a two stroke with a valve controlled Exhaust, then the story is radically different.

The only supercharged/turbocharged two srokes I have ever seen is large two stroke Marine Diesels.

if you really want to go for a one of a kind, then what a TurboShaft engine?

Old 02-27-2005, 05:25 PM
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funshawstud
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

I never thought of the exhaust port posing a problem ! Looks like I will have to build a four stroke for it first then.
Mike
Old 02-28-2005, 09:14 AM
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JRexA
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

For a model Engine I think that a Supercharger/Compressor will be the easiest, and yes, it would need to be a 4 stroke.

If you go for a turbocharger, I think it will work best on a multi cylinder engine, but don't know much about that, but I don't remember seing any single cylinder turbo engines, I have seen a couple of 2 cylinder turbocharged motorbikes(Honda 500 Turbo)

I think the biggest problem will be finding a turbo that is small enough for a modell engine. Building a turbocharger that small will be a challenge, I estimate it will rotate in the 150K RPM Range and more.
The Turbocharger will also need seperate lubrication, and maybe cooling for its oil supply.

If you really want compressed power, then you also need to add an Intercooler.

Here is a link to a Turboshaft engine for Model Helicopters: http://www.simjet.com/heli.htm
They are HELLISHLY expensive [:@] (At least US$ 2500+)
The prototype is based on the 12pds Thrust engine, and produces around 5hp on the shaft, and lots of torque.
Weight of the engine is around 4 pds.
For full scale engines a Turbine produces twice the torque of a similar power Turbo Diesel.

They could likely make a more powerfull one based on their 36 pds/thrust engine, but for such a special Order I think you are in the US$ 10K + range.
Old 02-28-2005, 12:42 PM
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icecreamslick
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

I do not know if this idea could be applied to our two-stroke engines, but I saw this in an rc magazine once. It is for nitro cars, but it might provide some ideas.[8D]

RC Car Nitro Super-Charger

Finally it’s here and this sure will put the power into your RC engine. The RB Nitro Super-Charger is the ultimate engine upgrade component available in the RC industry. This patented, compact design consists of aluminum and thermoplastic construction. This lightweight construction minimizes engine power required to drive the Super-Charger turbo impeller system. This precision turbo impeller is enclosed in a micro-polished aluminum housing which has been machined from solid billet aircraft aluminum. This provides maximum strength and durability while providing superior air flow from the turbo impeller into the engine’s carburetor.


The heart of the Super-Charger’s drive system is a custom composite drive belt that withstands the toughest environments. The Super-Charger’s drive system incorporates a lightweight flywheel, idler pulley system, and a 30% overdrive Super-Charger pulley. The Super-Charger also includes an optional auxiliary pressure output port for boosting fuel pressure to levels not reached by the standard exhaust pump system. This allows maximum nitro and air mixture which boosts engine horsepower.

This product was designed and manufactured using one the most state of the art CAD/CAM systems available.

All rotating parts within the supercharger are extremely lightweight thus drawing very little power from the engine. The supercharger also includes an optional auxiliary pressure output port for boosting fuel pressure to levels not reached by the standard exhaust pump system. This allows maximum nitro and air mixture which boosts engine horsepower.

The RB Nitro Super-Charger comes fully assembled and includes the following:

30% overdrive Super-Charger drive pulley
High performance drive belt
High-temperature connecting tubes
High-strength engine mounting bracket
All hardware required for the assembly
Complete Super-Charger assembly

Intake Filter Options: *Either filter option can be used on any Super-Charger application.

On-road – A low-profile, high flow air filter assembly is mounted on the intake of the Super-Charger. This air filter assembly is easily removed for easy cleaning. A simple spray of air, or filter cleaner, can be used on the filter assembly and then reinstalled back into position.
Off-road – The high-performance intake manifold allows for the mounting of a stock, or aftermarket, 1/8th scale size filter anywhere on the chassis. This comes complete with 6-8” flexible tubing and an anti-kink spring.

Charger Specifications / Performance Enhancements:

The custom flywheel and a complete drive hardware kit are included
Weighs less than ½ oz
Utilizes a lightweight, turbo impeller to produce maximum air flow which optimizes engine scavenging characteristics
Maximizes scavenging process of the two stroke engine
Typical power gains range from 15.6% to 27.3% depending on engine and pipe combustion, as well as the Super-Charger setup
High output charger boosts air intake by 50-200%
Engine acceleration is dramatically improved by the Super-Charger and the auxiliary pressure output
The engine runs more consistent from idle to full throttle
Optional auxiliary pressure port can be used to boost the fuel pressure aiding in the fuel delivery to the engine
Auxiliary port compensates for low back-pressure in the pipe due to low engine rpms
When the throttle is advanced, the fuel is immediately delivered to the engine
Enables the engine to run more consistently from full to empty tank conditions
The durable drive belt and drive system are very lightweight and draw minimal power from the engine
The high-performance intake manifold allows the use of larger filters and enables the filter to be mounted in any location on the chassis
System is easy to install and maintain
Upgradeable driver pulleys are available for further enhancing performance of the engine

How the Super Charger Works

The engine crankshaft Turns the supercharger at a given drive ratio which regulates the amount of air and fuel being forced into the engine. This creates a positive pressure between the intake port on the crankshaft and the supercharger. When the piston is moving into the compression stroke the crankshaft intake port opens allowing the pressurized air and fuel mixture to charge the crankcase on the underside of the piston. As the piston in the cylinder reaches top dead center, the crankcase is completely supercharged with the air and fuel mixture.


The piston in the cylinder reaches top dead center. At this point, the crankcase is completely supercharged with the air and fuel mixture.


The intake port opens as the piston starts on its downward stroke, allowing the supercharged air and fuel mixture to transfer from the crankcase into the cylinder. Some of this supercharged fuel mixture will pass through the exhaust port.


The piston the starts the compression stroke closing the intake port and travles a few degrees higher, closing the exhaust port.


The piston then reaches top dead center, igniting the charge.


After Detonation
The piston decends down the cylinder which opens the exhaust port, allowing a positive sonic pressure pulse along with the hot gases to escape.


The pulse, along with the hot gases, travels toward the end of the exhaust pipe.


The piston continues to complete the cycle, opening the intake port allowing the supercharged fuel and air mixture to flood into the cylinder. It continues on the compression stroke, closing the intake port.


Returning from the last detonation is the sonic pressure pulse, which has traveled the entire length of the exhaust pipe. The pulse is reflected back toward the cylinder by the divergence cone in the exhaust pipe. As this sonic pressure wave travels back toward the cylinder, it forces the escaping supercharged fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder prior to the exhaust port closing. This supercharges the cylinder with the additional air and fuel created by the supercharger mounted on the intake of the engine.



Old 02-28-2005, 01:23 PM
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ibstar
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

the tuned pipe acts as a super charger returning a pulse of fuel air mix back in the cylinder just before the exhaust closes. i have seen a model engine soimewhere that used an exhaust butterfly, the carb was just wide open all the time. heres a couple more pics

Old 02-28-2005, 02:23 PM
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ibstar
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

the ultimate how a 2 stroke and tuned pipe works
http://www.dalek.org/kshoe/images/2c...wo-cycle_c.gif
Old 02-28-2005, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )


ORIGINAL: JRexA

Turbochargers and superchargers/blowers are fine for 4 strokes, but of almost no use on our 2 strokes.

The 2 strokes has an exhaust port that opens first and closes last, most if not all the additional pressure you generates on the Intake will just blow out the open exhaust port when the Intake closes.

If you could bouild a two stroke with a valve controlled Exhaust, then the story is radically different.

The only supercharged/turbocharged two srokes I have ever seen is large two stroke Marine Diesels.

if you really want to go for a one of a kind, then what a TurboShaft engine?

Well our 2 strokes are piston port, how about reed valve or rotory valve two strokes? Most motorcycles are reed valve and nitro (glow) motors are rotory valve and they have a tremendous amont of power.

Does that mean our piston port is the weekest of the 3?


Old 02-28-2005, 03:46 PM
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JRexA
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )


ORIGINAL: 34Ford



Well our 2 strokes are piston port, how about reed valve or rotory valve two strokes? Most motorcycles are reed valve and nitro (glow) motors are rotory valve and they have a tremendous amont of power.

Does that mean our piston port is the weekest of the 3?


If the Piston Port was the strongest, then you would never see a race 2 stroke with Reed valves, and since all the High$$$$$ race bikes uses Reed Valves, then my guess is that Reed Valves is Top.

The Reed Valve and Rotary Valves are on the Intake, not the Exhaust, at least that is so on the 2 stroke motorbikes and Nitro engines I have personal experience with.

The 2 stroke motorbikes and Nitro Engines have exactly the same problem with Exhaust both Opening and Closing first.

Systems like the Yamaha YPVS adjusts the timing of the Exhaust Port, but the Exhaust still opens first and closes last.

Fitting a Zenoah with Reed valves should be doable, without much trouble, and I think it would produce more power than a Turbo or Supercharger.
The biggest problem is, where to put the Reed valve?
Has anyone done a Reed valve rebuild for a RC Car Zenoah?

If I compare to a race tuned 2 stroke MC(2002 YZR 500cc about 180Hp), then the 26cc Zenoah should be good for more than 9Hp.(With tuned pipe and so on) To get there with a usable power band you would also need a system like YPVS and computerised ignition + more.
Old 02-28-2005, 03:53 PM
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ibstar
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

i thought the ypvs was to smooth out the powerband had 2 bikes with that on. its worth it just for the servos setting when you switch the ignition on. not to mention the advantages of smoother power in the wet. lol
had a 350 before stupid licence laws etc and when that kicked in, it would rip ya arms off.
noobs on 4 strokes miss all the fun nowadays. fav has to be walter wolfs 500
Old 02-28-2005, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Hi ibstar.

Yes, the purpose of YPVS is to smooth out the power band, giving better power over a wider RPM range. They do that by adjusting the timing on the Exhaust port.
Before YPVS higly tuned 2 strokes tended to be extremely peaky, with a usable power band of maybe less than 1000 Rpm.
The YZR500 street verion has a usable power band from around 6000Rpm to the 10500Rpm redline.

Today you see similar systems on most larger two stroke engines, thay call it something diferent, but it all works by adjusting the exhaust timing. I have seen it on snow scooters with two stroke engines up to 1000cc, and made by Polaris, Arctic Cat, SkiDoo(Rotax engines) and Yamaha.
Old 03-16-2005, 03:46 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

i think turbo chargers would be the best for these engines cause they would create just enough back pressure that u need to get boost in the cylinder
Old 03-16-2005, 04:34 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Don't think a turbo would work as any extra pressure developed on the inlet side would blow out the exhaust port and equalise pressure in the cylinder before the exhaust port closed
Old 03-16-2005, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Turbochargers taken into account, how would you keep the front end down? Turbochargers are relatively common in cars because of their front wheel weight bias, but as most of the 1/5th scales have the engines mounted at the rear, it would make for interesting acceleration when the powerband did kick in. seems you would negate the effect of the charger by adding more weight ballast to the car to keep it sunny-side up.

on a tangent...Anybody got any good examples of a Front Wheel Drive 1/5th?
Old 03-16-2005, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

i want to build a killer blown nitrus fed fours troke to go in a savage
Old 03-16-2005, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

my mistake I didn't realise we were talking 4stroke
Old 03-17-2005, 06:58 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

james2001: I don't think it will be a major problem keeping the front wheel of a center engine car like these FG's down.

At least in the real world, the most heavily loaded Turbocharged RWD cars didn't seem to have that problem. At Least I don't remember seeing a BMW or Renault F1 with a 1.5liter Turbochaged 1500HP+ engine do wheelies.

Cars like the Toyota Supra Turbo or Nissan 280ZX Turbo also don't have problems.

Also one of the most known Turbo cars with engine in the rear (behind the rear axle) doesn't have any trouble, here I am thinking about the Porche 911 or 935.
Old 03-17-2005, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

point taken JrexA.

It just seems when you look at the cars that there is so much more weight to the rear. Additionally, in the full size cars, the driver and passenger are conveniently positioned over the front wheels, adding extra ballast to the front. The F1 cars have aerofoils at the front, creating the downforce to prevent such wheelies. Look at dragsters for example when the front wings get ripped off.

Nevertheless, I think you're right. It probably wouldn't be a problem in reality on the 1/5th scales, especially with a decent aerodynamic shell on. I await with baited breath for the first easily available turbocharger!
Old 03-21-2005, 07:02 AM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

were the hell can u find more info in these things???



i saw them online a few months ago and forgot about em thinking they were some hagerd photo phop edit lol! i want one!!!!!

lmao just out of interest do they make dump valves for glow engines lmao!! that would sound mint! lol!
Old 03-21-2005, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

where can youget an mtc dohc engine
Old 03-21-2005, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

JRexA, the reason you dont see those sissy cars do wheelies is because they are missing one very, very, very important factor... torque! Those girly skinny tires in the rear may be part of the problem also
Old 03-21-2005, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

you can also get them at RB innovations
Old 03-21-2005, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Xnackx I'm wondering how many road cars that arn't " sissy" pull wheelies

I've owned a 240z and a 300zx and I didn't think they were sissy

Old 03-21-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: info on turbo/super charged gas rc engines ( any type )

Mustang, camaro, nova, chevelle, gto, firebird, charger, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. Any of those cars with a supercharger and a set of meats on the back will pull the front wheels off the ground. If you supercharged a 1/4 scale or 1/5 scale cars engine and it provided good power and torque it would pull up the front if it hooked up.[8D]

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