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POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Old 04-11-2008, 08:36 PM
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Kbruno89
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Default POWER TO THE ENGINE!

I am not sure if anyone has this on the cars, but could this be a new move. Could we be doing Nitro to our rc engines!?!? I do not know much about this area but would love your feedback on this. Like, me personally would think this could be really intense as far as competition! I wonder if anyone out here has heard of this or attempted to do this!

http://www.largescalehobbies.com/inc/sdetail/236
Old 04-11-2008, 09:03 PM
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Dr.ArmoMaxx
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Stay away. If you love your RC car and you enjoy your lifestyle, please stay away.
Old 04-11-2008, 09:07 PM
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Kbruno89
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Why you say that? Could it really be that deadly to your engine lifetime?
Old 04-11-2008, 09:11 PM
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Acs_guitars
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

you will blow a 2 stroke pretty quick with a nitrous kit..... No need for it either on an RC car unless you are competition 1/4 scale drag racing, but then the motor would get rebuilt often anyway.
Old 04-11-2008, 09:42 PM
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krayziedxc
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

who ever sells them, they probaly already try it in there car/truck..to me it not worth it..you best of buying a 2speed or a extra hop ups for your engine
Old 04-12-2008, 05:50 PM
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vtl1180ny
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!


ORIGINAL: krayziedxc

who ever sells them, they probaly already try it in there car/truck..to me it not worth it..you best of buying a 2speed or a extra hop ups for your engine

Both the Nitrous and a 2 speed are illegal for racing... Plus the Nitrous will not last the entire race anyway...
Old 04-13-2008, 02:55 AM
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splcrazy
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

looks interesting, looks like an interesting way of wasting money lol
Old 04-13-2008, 03:13 AM
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sheograth
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Theres been a few threads about nitrous for our 1/5 cars and trucks. I believe the consensus was that unless perfectly tuned and set up it doesn't provide much of an advantage. These off the shelf kind don't seem to help much, all the ones I've seen work have been specifically made for a particular vehicle. etc.

I'm sure someone remembers the thread or has more info.
Old 04-13-2008, 01:54 PM
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stempak
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

There is a video in here, on a fg st. Stock 26cc it works well on a stock motor. Full mod is unknown probably shortens the engine life a bit? They(nitrous kits) are available for around 140.
Old 04-14-2008, 02:12 AM
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AngelShark
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

These Nitrous kits are not all that bad, Not sure if the people that don''t like have even tried them. They do what anybody thinks a nitrous kit should do.

1. Do they produce more power? Yes, If you run it with the right tune, which usually is a bit richer than the normal settings.
2. Can you damage your motor? Yes, Since there are no rev limiters on these motors, they will rev as high as they can. " until something goes"
3. Learn as much as you can about a nitrous set up before just hooking up the system.

There are a lot of variables in this equation that are to long to explain. But if you want to go fast in a short distance This one of the tools you''ll need.
Old 04-14-2008, 02:32 AM
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Lunar Wolf
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Okay, but these are nothing like proper NX kits for 1:1 cars.

A fully functional NX kit includes a system for adding extra fuel to the mix while NX is in use. Without it all your doing is creating a lean condion which will soar your engine temperatures, enduce alot of internal wear and eventually kill your engine. Without the extra fuel you won''t see nearly the performance NX is capable of so what do people end up doing who have these.

They tune their engines to run very rich, so when NX is on they get a nice boost, unfortuantly the other 95% of the time its off their performance is pants.

Without the mechanism to add more fuel like an extra spraybar in the carb having this on your RC is next to pointless, it can't really be used for much bar the odd drag run. Save your money for something better like a decent pipe or engine.
Old 04-14-2008, 03:58 AM
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Here''re the vids, courtesy of Allanach and Monaroman.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSjoo6uKPU

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIhK_UlJ6nY
Old 04-14-2008, 11:47 AM
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AngelShark
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

I saw videos, these are perfect examples of the difference between nitrous and no nitrous.
I understand your point Lunar. But would we ever go any futher not just in R/C but in most other industries, if we listened to people that said "no don''t do that! It''s not going to work"

As I said there are many pieces to this puzzle. For most hobbiest that is the most fun, trying to make it work better and go faster. Also as for being a proper NX system, this system is made by the company that designs them for real cars. This is a quote from one of there reps. "your never truly done making it better, as time goes by most things are improved"

Just read a book on the history of auto racing. Man those guys thought they were going fast at 35mph.
Old 04-14-2008, 12:21 PM
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Lunar Wolf
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

You got me wrong mate, i'm not saying we shouldn't do it on RC's i'm saying we should do it properly.

No offence to Allanach and Monaroman (and i do appreciate the time and effort your putting into this) but what your seeing in the video isn't the difference between 'normal' and 'with NX', its showing you very rich with no NX then with NX. Did you see how much smoke was pouring out of the pipe?! looked like my nitro, i know those guys had to run it rich to to try and prevent damage the lean condition caused by the NX would cause - its no fun wrecking the engine but it proves my point, even rich with no NX that engine was pretty peppy, so its going to run a whole lot better when properly tuned for normal use - lets see that, a few timed drag runs then richen it up and do some drag runs with NX on.

I'd love to see NX develop to the point where it was actually useful in racing, it would be a sweet thing to see when the cars hit the main straight and punch some, but they will also need off NX power as well for around the rest of the track. Same goes for general bashing and goofing around, unless your going to have NX running all of the time then your bash sessions are going to be wack.

Check this out:



Its a remote needle - something like that could be the next step in making a real NX system for these engines.


I would in no way lump this in the same useless catagory as boost bottles or supercharges, this if properly produced would give you some crazy power that most stock engines simply wouldn't be able to handle, they wouldn't wear out they would self destruct! which might force a new breed of tough enough engines into production if it caught on and widen the market, we''ll be seeing some completely new engined from companys like GBE soon (who already have 3 new mills in the works) so they might be up to task...

As for the 'system' we're looking at in this thread, I still say its a waste of time, fun to goof around with but ineffective for any kind of practical use and WILL cause alot of problems for the user finally ending up with a dead engine. I''d be intrested if these companies actually started to put together a proper scaled down system like we see in 1:1 cars instead of just milking the NOS name and selling a bunch of half systems to people who don''t really know what their buying, but its going to take alot of experimenting and investment, some compression and detonation issues to address and iron out with of dead mills along the way before we start to see something that will work right and people need to wise up and not just accept the garbage their being spoon fed by these 'manufacturers' - that won't promote any kind of change from them.
Old 04-14-2008, 10:36 PM
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stempak
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

ORIGINAL: Lunar Wolf

Okay, but these are nothing like proper NX kits for 1:1 cars.

A fully functional NX kit includes a system for adding extra fuel to the mix while NX is in use. Without it all your doing is creating a lean condion which will soar your engine temperatures, enduce alot of internal wear and eventually kill your engine. Without the extra fuel you won''''t see nearly the performance NX is capable of so what do people end up doing who have these.

They tune their engines to run very rich, so when NX is on they get a nice boost, unfortuantly the other 95% of the time its off their performance is pants.

Without the mechanism to add more fuel like an extra spraybar in the carb having this on your RC is next to pointless, it can''t really be used for much bar the odd drag run. Save your money for something better like a decent pipe or engine.
You don''t really know what your talking about. In 1.1 cars their is N.O.S kits that are called dry kits same thing that is used in these kits. nothing but nos, To a certain exstent or hp level then you need more fuel. The allanach kit showed in the video basicly has turned a stock motor to a full modded motor with just nos. The guy said they have quite a bit of time on that particular motor. I think If you tried that much extra power to a full mod it wouldn''t hold up to long. It would work but mostlikely with that much extra power won''t last too long unless you turned it down to like half of what their using in that video say a 2-6mph gain tops. It might hold together for a while and as You can hear it is a adjustable kit.

Also these are exactly the samething that would be used on a 1-1car dry nitrous kit selonids and nitrous

Also you should always see some smoke when running or your running to lean.
Old 04-15-2008, 05:56 AM
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allanach
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Hi Guys, if I could add a few things it might clear the air.

That kit you see in those links is a dry kit, plenty of street cars run these kits as the are cheap/easy to instal /light weight & easy to tune.
That engine runing Nitrous Oxide and a tuned pipe easily produces 3-4 times the power Zenoah rates it at.
If you had a modded engine or a stocker it would make no diference to the engines life when on the gas as you you still have to get a few key elements correct ayway..... think of it this way.
More nitrous does not mean more power
More fuel does mean more power but it creates a rich condition which means less power.... so you add some Nitrous Oxide to counter act the rich condition.

That engine is still on the same ring that came with the truck, I recently stripped it down for inspection and it looked brand new.

The kit is usless for track racing as nitrous is activated at WOT and the power is incredible... to the point of being stupid but..... it''s fun.

I highly suggest to anybody thinking about buying a kit or using Nitrous Oxide to research it fully, the head kits are cheap (like $60) it''s the personal safety.

As mentioned this kit is fully adjustable and we have total control of what is going on and that''s why it works.
Old 04-15-2008, 07:11 AM
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Lunar Wolf
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

ORIGINAL: stempak

You don't really know what your talking about. In 1.1 cars their is N.O.S kits that are called dry kits same thing that is used in these kits. nothing but nos, To a certain exstent or hp level then you need more fuel. The allanach kit showed in the video basicly has turned a stock motor to a full modded motor with just nos. The guy said they have quite a bit of time on that particular motor. I think If you tried that much extra power to a full mod it wouldn't hold up to long. It would work but mostlikely with that much extra power won't last too long unless you turned it down to like half of what their using in that video say a 2-6mph gain tops. It might hold together for a while and as You can hear it is a adjustable kit.

Also these are exactly the samething that would be used on a 1-1car dry nitrous kit selonids and nitrous

Also you should always see some smoke when running or your running to lean.
Oh please, just go re-read the thread. I never said dry kits didn't exist for 1:1 cars, i just don't consider that rubbish a proper NX kit, just the usual junk boy racers go for and to slap a 'NOS' sticker on the back of their rice mobiles and brag about it to their mates. In a modern car with an oxygen censor they can be more useful since the NX will tell the censor that the air has more oxygen in it and the cars own fuel management system will trigger more fuel flow itself but this tends to come in a little late - after NX has already entered the system. Relying on this while helpful and better then nothing at all won't give the engine the perfect or even safe amount of fuel since the cars oxygen censor isn't calibrated for NX and indeed the cars own fuel management system may not be able to deliver enough fuel due to physical or software limitations - in any event last i checked our large scale RC's didn't have oxygen censors so a dry kit really isn't the best way to go on this, but then i guess you'd know all about that Mr.Expert...

Extra fuel should be delivered just before NX actually enters the system and the amount of both fuel and NX has to be carefully controlled, why else do you think fully featured electronic controlled wet kits exist with along purge systems.

From your post you would appear to be the one that dosn't really know what they are talking about, but the difference between you and I, is I would never be as insultive as you have just been and at the same time come off so ignorant. A little puff of smoke after idle is normal but If you think for a gas based engine to spew smoke all the way down the road like a nitro is normal then you really need to learn to tune.



ORIGINAL: allanach

Hi Guys, if I could add a few things it might clear the air.

That kit you see in those links is a dry kit, plenty of street cars run these kits as the are cheap/easy to instal /light weight & easy to tune.
That engine runing Nitrous Oxide and a tuned pipe easily produces 3-4 times the power Zenoah rates it at.
If you had a modded engine or a stocker it would make no diference to the engines life when on the gas as you you still have to get a few key elements correct ayway..... think of it this way.
More nitrous does not mean more power
More fuel does mean more power but it creates a rich condition which means less power.... so you add some Nitrous Oxide to counter act the rich condition.

That engine is still on the same ring that came with the truck, I recently stripped it down for inspection and it looked brand new.

The kit is usless for track racing as nitrous is activated at WOT and the power is incredible... to the point of being stupid but..... it''''s fun.

I highly suggest to anybody thinking about buying a kit or using Nitrous Oxide to research it fully, the head kits are cheap (like $60) it''''s the personal safety.

As mentioned this kit is fully adjustable and we have total control of what is going on and that''''s why it works.

Thank you! Someone who knows what their talking about. I agree with what you have to say. For this to work on any engine you need more fuel, whether by richening the needles which has the pervously mentioned drawback of substandard off NX power or for a more usable NX you need to be able to add fuel to an already properly tuned engine. For fuel to burn it needs oxygen, for power to be acheived the right amount of fuel and oxygen must be present for all the fuel to burn efficiently, NX adds alot more oxygen to the air so more fuel can be burnt and more power acheived but if you don't have a mechanism for adding more fuel then all you do is run the engine lean.

Adding NX to an already properly tuned engine will only make it run lean with little improvement in power output, for this to actually work like Allanach has just said you need to add fuel, how thats done is down to the user/installer, you can richen the needles and use a dry system but that has its performance draw backs, or you can develop it into a simplified wet system similar to whats in use by the real racers (not ricers) which will allow you optimum performance both when the system on or off.
Old 04-15-2008, 09:18 PM
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stempak
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

What is the head kit you are talking about? Is that the price of your system? I think if you fully mod a motor, And use that much gain! on top of modding either the rod or the piston will have problems? On another note that remote needle valve will be available for gas eventually. They have been alredy been converted and used with gas with good results, And supposedly being made for use and sale for gas engines. That would possibly be something that could be used as a tool to dial in tuning when off and on nx for proper tuning possibly?
Old 04-16-2008, 02:43 AM
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allanach
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Guys, when you mod a motor for example: alter the inlet timinig and exhaust timing / widen transfers / modify squish etc it only gives you so much gain.... lets say 10% maybe 20% but that''s about it.
When you run Nitrous Oxide you can easily double the HP with out to much mucking about but you still need good control over what is going on.

If you where to extract every bit of HP from the kit I feel the following could happen: cracked head / head breaks off at the two mounts / engine over revs and rod breaks.
To get to this level of power I am sure you could do it with this kit but then you run into other problems like: spark timing is wrong / gas could freeze when it exits the bottle / different plugs may be required etc.
I really don''t know what the effect of to much nitrous and fuel would be on these little engines but with the amount of gas I used was enough to provide huge gains.

In 1:1 cars where they are making an axtra 300-500 hp with the flick of a switch you really need to know what you are doing as meltdowns from heat and detonation become reality.

This kit was intended to give you a buzz and have a bit of fun for the largescale motor head and it will but the cost kinda blew out a bit. I did research small pumps and electronic activation of both additional fuel and Nitrous Oxide but that just made the cost way out of reach.

The above is only my opinion and I don''t claim to be a Nitrous guru but do some research on 1:1 websites as that + trial & error is how I come up with the kit.
Old 04-16-2008, 06:35 AM
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Lunar Wolf
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Its cool mate, i don''t think anyone here is attacking what your doing. After all for 99% of us this hobby is about having fun and trying stuff out. Its cool and i''d only make a more forceful point if you were a manufacturer charging $300 for a kit giving us all the blurb on how it would double our engines power output but without telling us the down sides to it.

Alot of guys don''t really understand how nitrous actually works and think your just adding some kind of rocket fuel to your engine without realising its just a means of adding more oxygen. I know your not doing that and my posts are more for the OP who asked the question about that particular kit.

Like i said i think this could be very cool for large scale if the kit was further developed from a waste of time dry kit to a basic wet kit, who ever tries it can expect to have to sacrifice alot on engines to pull it off and may find that they can''t handle the full brunt of what NX can do. They may find that only small bursts that give about 20% extra is safe for current Zen & CY engines any more will simply break them.

I really think that if you look into encorperating a remote needle and spray bar you could really enhance what you have though, it can be done mechanically so its not like you''ll have to invest in electonics, then you''ll be having mean street drags and punching NX as your secret weapon.
Old 04-16-2008, 08:00 AM
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allanach
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Thanks LW, in time I may pick it up again and run with it as I know where to get all the parts for a wet system now, but I have a few things on at the moment (some RC and some not) that really consume time as most of us do I guess.

If I develope the kit further I will be sure to get some more vid (thats where Monaroman comes in) and let you all know.
Old 04-16-2008, 08:27 AM
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Lunar Wolf
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

Cool, good luck with it mate - i''m glad someone is willing to be the guinea pig. Keep the vids comming - definatly like seeing violent wheelies like that.
Old 04-16-2008, 07:48 PM
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stempak
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

I suggest converting your truck to a st. or trying it with a onroad. Anyways The only motor that I know of with a steel rod is qd35cc, And there is billet pistons. Hey with a proper tunning and a full mod 26cc or larger you may be able to squeeze 20% more? and be in the 8-9hp range with blistering acceleration. Not that a modded 30cc etc done by cc racing wouldn't have more power than was needed mostlikely
Old 04-17-2008, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNsHj51L9JM

some people never grow out of this phase..................
Old 04-17-2008, 07:50 PM
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stempak
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Default RE: POWER TO THE ENGINE!

That doesn't really make any sense?

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