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Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Old 07-07-2011, 06:49 PM
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tobuy3003
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Default Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Im looking for pilots and newbie pilots to explain why they think that installing motors on thermal gliders is information that must be shared with others to help them out. I am not looking for how to do it, but the reasons why it needs to be done in detail and its advantage. Many have suggested it on nearly ever outing I go flying, but Ican never remember to ask why. So heres your chance.

Thanks in advance...
Old 07-07-2011, 07:40 PM
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kwmtrubrit
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

My typical method of launching is by winch, sometimes hi-start. I do own one electric powered sailplane, a Radian Pro. Although I do consider myself a purist, I do enjoy the convenience of plugging in a battery and launching when time, or limited space really doesn't allow the use of the winch or hi-start. I do think that an electric powered sailplane is a really good idea over the "purist" methods of launching for someone learning to fly because they can spend more time flying and less time pulling out winch line or stretching a hi-start. Typically, the newbie doesn't have extended flight times, so the ability to descend to a landing approach but power up instead of landing, I think, would be very beneficial. Just my opinion.
Old 07-07-2011, 07:55 PM
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tobuy3003
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

I need the reasons why this conversion should be done to my own ships actually. I am not a newbie.
Old 07-07-2011, 08:14 PM
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kwmtrubrit
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

My typical method of launching is by winch, sometimes hi-start. I do own one electric powered sailplane, a Radian Pro. Although I do consider myself a purist, I do enjoy the convenience of plugging in a battery and launching when time, or limited space really doesn't allow the use of the winch or hi-start. I do think that an electric powered sailplane is a really good idea over the "purist" methods of launching for someone learning to fly because they can spend more time flying and less time pulling out winch line or stretching a hi-start. Typically, the newbie doesn't have extended flight times, so the ability to descend to a landing approach but power up instead of landing, I think, would be very beneficial. Just my opinion.

In the first part, remove, "I do" and replace with, "you may." The second part, just read it.
Old 07-07-2011, 08:15 PM
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TIA
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Do you like touring bikes, beach cruisers, or mountain bikes.
One of the biggest problems of our hobby is we tend to get bored and start over-analyzing or trying out other things.
Just do what you like.

It's really that simple...
Old 07-07-2011, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Maybe your flight times are so short because you can't thermal to save your life[&:] Or maybe they just think you should like, and do, the same things they do. That is human nature "I love this so you sould to, otherwise either you or I am weird, and it can't be me." Do what you like, if you can't see a good reason for it, then for you there is no good reason.
Old 07-08-2011, 03:29 AM
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tobuy3003
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

ORIGINAL: cfircav8r

Maybe your flight times are so short because you can't thermal to save your life[&:] Or maybe they just think you should like, and do, the same things they do. That is human nature "I love this so you sould to, otherwise either you or I am weird, and it can't be me." Do what you like, if you can't see a good reason for it, then for you there is no good reason.
I am reading some websites on unsolicited advice and it gives reasons similar to yours. Maybe they dont know any reasons.



Old 07-08-2011, 04:34 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Do what you like, its your airplane.

I have both. Some days I prefer to hook up a battery and fly. Sometimes when I'm with several friends and we have a winch and or a high start we do it that way. Some days we tow them up with my Electric Husky.

Mounds or Almond Joy, Bud or Michelobe. Do whatever makes you enjoy the hobby. Politely remind others that if you wanted an electric glider you would buy one.
Old 07-08-2011, 06:00 AM
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LovesToSail
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

I will give you my 2 cents...

I have been flying since 1980 or thereabouts....

My preferred type of plane is a sailplane because I enjoy the piece and quietness as well as the challenge of finding a thermal.  I will say, in my area at the field we used to use, it was really tough to get a 5 min flight due to poor thermal conditions, but when you did it was amazing. Part of this was the winch line length was on the short side.  It was a pain to set up the winch, set up a retriever, no matter what we did we were down or cross wind.

So move to 2000.... I built an Airtronics Legend (I fly a Dodgson Windsong, Craftair Viking and Airtronics Sagitta as well as a gentle lady).  I just didn't have the energy to charge the winch battery, pack the van (which my wife insisted was hers), pack the plans, drive to the field, set up the winch (did I mention the heavy battery), deal with short flights, etc. In effect, I spent more time preparing and less time flying and the planes sat on the shelf. Couple that with "family" responsibilities and I had even less time to play with my big toys.

Move to 2009, whoa baby, $15 motors, 40-60A speed controllers for $20 and 2200-4000mah lipos for $12-$50.  I cringed when I first cut the nose off of a sailplane because these were my loves .... but I wasn't flying them (except the electric gentle lady).  I now fly pretty much each one of these at least every other week (certainly 1 time per month).  The funny thing is that many of them did not go up in weight a measurable amount due to the large amount of lead in the nose.  Oh yea, my favorite? It is the poorest sailplane of all - the Viking (120" span, very wide cord, transparent red) because it is so easy for my old eyes to see and it is so incredibly stable in the air.  Yes, I still enjoy the Windsong, but at altitude (which is no issue by the way with electric - it can get to 1000 feet in ~20-40 secs) I feel uncomfortable with it due to a lack of dihedral and a worry that it will spiral in if I lose orientation.

So, now I can pack up, go to the field and FLY. I don't worry about wind direction, I don't worry about retrieving and I can focus on what I really love.

Couple that with 2.4GHZ spread spectrum FHSS systems and I don't worry about interference....

Scott
Did I mention I LOVE the 800KVA 35-48 Turnigy motors for $14.80?  4 cell for the windsong, 3 cell for the others and 14x8 or so props.
Old 07-08-2011, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Most likely for convenience, as been stated above. But if you like the challenge of rubber or winch..go ahead I do all.

Scott, I've had suprisingly good luck with the 35xx motors as well. Just be sure to have extra shafts as they are soft.
Old 07-08-2011, 07:04 AM
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tobuy3003
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Those are some good reasons. What I am seeing is that newbies drive out to our site and then try to convince me to add a motor when I already have my own setup in use that I am fine with. Iexplain to them about the nurmerous long flights and they ignore that and go into full detail on how to convert. I feel like the last guy would even stop by and drill the mounting holes for me. At my location I dont need anything else. In fact, even a tow plane would stay up without power here. Ijust like to figure out why people do what they do.
Old 07-08-2011, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Well bear in mind that many people don't even know what a winch or hi-start is or how it works... Once they see one in action, they usually go ahhhhhhh.
Old 07-08-2011, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

I just like the idea of driving to an open field and throwing my Radian into the wind and motoring up several hundred feet, play with the wind, experiment with thermal hunting, come back down to 6', dislike my approach or more likely stall, fire up the motor and go back to 300'. I get 40 minutes per launch, success in and advancing or not, and get to fly my bird again. Simple as that for me. I admire a purist, and respect their sport, and expect the same in return while I teach myself. My goal is to land my radian in my 100' by 100' backyard ringed by a 6' fence and 30 to 50 foot trees... and be able to power out of a missed approach so I can try again? :-)
Old 07-08-2011, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?


ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

Those are some good reasons. I just like to figure out why people do what they do.
Because what they are doing is....what they want to do....untill they decide they want to do something else?
Old 07-08-2011, 10:15 AM
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kwmtrubrit
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

I flew full scale off of a winch. Maybe I'm reliving my childhood through RC sailplanes, who knows. As said above, I love the convenience of pulling out my Radian Pro and flying anywhere, any time. BUT, my preference is the winch. If someone came to me and started the BS of telling me what I should do with my plane(s), I don't think I would be very nice. My flying preference is not meant to change anyone elses, and visa versa. Just my 50c worth (inftation).
Old 07-08-2011, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?


ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

Those are some good reasons. What I am seeing is that newbies drive out to our site and then try to convince me to add a motor when I already have my own setup in use that I am fine with. I explain to them about the nurmerous long flights and they ignore that and go into full detail on how to convert. I feel like the last guy would even stop by and drill the mounting holes for me. At my location I dont need anything else. In fact, even a tow plane would stay up without power here. I just like to figure out why people do what they do.

a) Because they like it
B) Because it is a free country
c) To each it's own

Some folks just do not get the concept and think they have to convince someone else to do things their way be power/no power, gas/electric/slime, whatever.

Said that, one has to admit that people are having so much fun, that they think they have to push other people in the same direction they are going:-)


My 3 cents

Gerry
PS: Decadeds ago I used a high start. I spent part of the time at the field fiddling with the HS. Then, with electric power, you get to fly more of that time, plus, your arm is not sore from stretching rubber:-) But, if stretching and setting up is your thing, by all means, do whatever makes you feel happy. Enjoy the hobby...
Old 07-08-2011, 01:47 PM
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gsoav8r
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

ORIGINAL: tobuy3003
I explain to them about the numerous long flights and they ignore that and go into full detail on how to convert.
Seems to me they need to listen more and talk less. I have that prob myself sometimes, that is talking too much, so I recognize those types quick.

Another thing is maybe you could use some witty comebacks, not ugly or mean just fun.
Like, if anyone asks why you prefer a hi-start tell em' you enjoy the workout.
Or if it wasn't for the hi-start, winch or tow plane take offs would be boring.
Batteries and motors weigh too much.
Maybe you ran out of channels on your Tx to add a throttle.

Dont know, I could have fun with it.
Old 07-08-2011, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Hear Hear Rotorbroke !!! Great Post

T-man49 in Alabama
Club Saito 723
Old 07-08-2011, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?


ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

I need the reasons why this conversion should be done to my own ships actually. I am not a newbie.

The idea of electric powered "launching" is highly desireable to many. But since those folks have not had the chance to fly from a winch or high start they may feel that you are missing out on something. So in their own way they are just trying to help you out.

But as you seem to be suggesting by the tone of your posts you're quite happy with a pure glider and a winch or high start to get it aloft.

Perhaps what you need to do instead of questioning their motives is try to spread the word on your own about what it's like to fly gliders that have no "second, third or fourth chance for a thermal if the pilot misses it the first time up. Like how it sharpens up the flying and decisions knowing that it'll be more work to get back up and try again. And how when it goes right you have more of a sense of accomplishment.
Old 07-10-2011, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?


ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

I need the reasons why this conversion should be done to my own ships actually. I am not a newbie.
Can't think of any reason unless this is something you want to do. Otherwise, hook-up to the winch or hi-start and go soaring.
Old 07-22-2011, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

The habit of people telling others what they should do is not limited to our hobby.
I flew full sized sailplanes for awhile.
Others always told me I should fly power...fly a real airplane...so I can go somewhere etc
When I got into sailing
"too bad you dont have a power boat so you can go fishing, skiing, go fast.

The short time I fished out of a power boat :
You should get a kayak, Youy should get a sailboat.

I had a kayak Igot rammed by a power boat
You should get an ambulance.

I had a physics proffessor who loved to respond to students questions:

"If you have to ask the question you cannot possibly understand the answer"
I think this answer applies to the original question and would be anexcellent response to any who question you about your choices.
Old 07-23-2011, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?


ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

Im looking for pilots and newbie pilots to explain why they think that installing motors on thermal gliders is information that must be shared with others to help them out.
It's quite important information when you really need to launch some other method than highstart or winch. I fly RC in North Carolina now. Used to fly in Minnesnowta. It was quite easy in Mn. to find guys and places to fly from highstart, winch or slope compared to finding the same in N.C. MOF, it's almost impossible to find a place to setup highstarts or anyone doing it, and slopes simply do not exist.

It is actually impossible to setup an effective, worthwhile highstart at any of the 3 clubsites around me. Even if it were, having the chute/line come down across the runway/buildings/parking lot/etc rules out doing it at all. Even if there were room, almost noone in the membership flies non-powered gliders. It's more to the point to say nobody in the memberships would stand for having highstart line drape itself across whatever wherever the wind chooses while they're flying.

In some places, flying non-powered gliders with power planes really doesn't work. I love flying gliders. Take one with me most times now. Fly with all my buddies whenever we get together. Don't have a single conflict or needed concessions at all. Thanks to lipo/outrunners/inrunners and folding props.

Why should YOU do it? No reason unless you plan to fly using a highstart with power guys on the same runway.
Old 07-26-2011, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Here's my 2 cents on the question asked.

Answer:

Because people in general are like sheep. They see one person doing something, and poof, they all have to do it like that. Case in point: the rapid explosion of 3D flying. One guy does it and says "look what I can do"...and presto, now you can hardly findan actualtrue scale aerobat or plain ole' "sport" flyer. Everything is "3D capable".

How does that apply to gliders?? Well, electric gliders have been around for a long time (remember the old Airtronics Eclipse!!), just not all that great onsoaring performance, but with the coming of high power, light weight brushless motors and LiPo packs,electric gliders have become capable of superb performance. So, somebody built one, put out an ARF version, andadvertised how "convenient" it is with no high start/winch, and they sold lots. Then just like the 3D stuff, away they went, everyone had to have one. So now, you haveall the newer fella's coming along with their Radians or whatever other E-glider, and they see you out there doing it the old fashioned way.What they see is the "black sheep" in the herd, someone different, and we can't have that!! And I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just that the electric route is all they know, and thats what all their buddies are doing. Like someone else mentioned, they probably have never seen or heard of a high start/winch!! I'm sure 99% of them probably think they are just trying to help you "see the light".

Personally, I love the challenge of a pure sailplane. I do not havea winch, I use a high start, and I love it. Been flying gliders for around 15-16 years. Now, I do like the convenience of the electric stuff. I mean sometimes a fella doesn't have the time to string out the high start. It does take a bit of time. But, with the electric, just grab it and go!! So, in order to complement my fleet of modified Sagitta 900 and GP Spirit 2m pure gliders,I am going to build me an electrified Riser 2m for those "grab and go" days.

Basically, like everyone has said, it all comes down to preference. Next time you get one of those newbies "trying to help", here is what you could do. Grab the good ole' Gentle Lady/Spirit/Riser/Oly 2, or whatever simple glider you have handy, and let them havea go at a pure glider. Show them how much fun it can be to actually have to search for lift in order to stay up. Show them the thrill of getting a good launch followed by 30 or more minutes...without a motor to help in a pinch. Help them to "see the light" about pure gliders!!
Old 07-26-2011, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

ORIGINAL: tobuy3003

Those are some good reasons. What I am seeing is that newbies drive out to our site and then try to convince me to add a motor when I already have my own setup in use that I am fine with. I explain to them about the nurmerous long flights and they ignore that and go into full detail on how to convert. ...
In lots of things, people automatically assume that doing things the newer way is a superior thing.

I like riding bikes on forest trails. Currently, I am having my fun there on rigid singlespeed bike: no suspension fork, one gear. Lots of people are eager to point out that a Full Suspension bike with 20 gears is the only way to go (27 gears is sooo last year): so much faster, so much more fun.

My take is: "whatever puts a smile on your face...".
Old 07-26-2011, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?

Well said

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