What to tow?
10-24-2011, 07:06 PM
#1
Thread Starter
What to tow?
I have a nice 60 sized electric tow plane. I use it lift sail planes up to my Ventus. IT goes up with ease. Always a sight to see the release.
I also have a Maggie. A 25 side plane that is setup to tow. I am looking for a nice glider to tow up. The Maggie uses a tow line while the 60 sized plane uses a cradle.
Is there a glider in the in the 2 meter range that the little Maggie could pull up? I was looking at the Cularis, but that one is a bit pricey. We did try to tow the Ventus with the Maggie, but she is to under powered.
Can a rudder elevator glider be pulled up? I have read that you need ailerons?
Thanks.
Buzz.
I also have a Maggie. A 25 side plane that is setup to tow. I am looking for a nice glider to tow up. The Maggie uses a tow line while the 60 sized plane uses a cradle.
Is there a glider in the in the 2 meter range that the little Maggie could pull up? I was looking at the Cularis, but that one is a bit pricey. We did try to tow the Ventus with the Maggie, but she is to under powered.
Can a rudder elevator glider be pulled up? I have read that you need ailerons?
Thanks.
Buzz.
10-24-2011, 08:10 PM
#2
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RE: What to tow?
It most certainly can be done, and it is not hard to do at all. Ailerons on the glider not required at all. Here is a link to a thread I started just a couple weeks ago on the setup we use.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10763226/tm.htm
Both the gliders there are rudder/elevator only. I have towed Gentle Ladies, Sig Risers, GP Spirits, Olympic II, Multiplex Easy Glider (motor removed), and my enlarged Sagitta 900, all with great success, The only one that has ailerons is the Easy Glider.
There is something that I need to warn you about though, When you are towing the polyhedral type, rudder/elevator only gliders, you do not want a fast towplane!!! I cannot stress it enough that speed is NOT your friend when towing. When you look at the speed those gliders normally fly at, you only want to go a little faster than that MAX. What happens if you go too fast is that the glider will become unstable on the tow and start a dutch roll on the end of the line. Once this starts it is nearly impossible to stop, and usually what happens is that the glider causes the towplane to nose down and the speed builds and then you are in trouble. With our Kadet Seniorita tug, we are climbing hard so that the Serniorita is just enoughabove its stall to be safely controllable, and that works perfect. We tried to tow with a Kadet LT-40 one day, and even as slow as an LT-40 can fly, it was still too fast. The glider climbed as though it was on a high start or winch, and the LT-40 was so close to its stall speed that it was "wing rocking" severely.....and then the dutch rolling started!!! Thank goodness for a towline that snapped quickly on us.
With aileron equipped gliders, or the larger scale ones, you can get away with a more speed. You don't need it speed on the tow, (remember the glidersnormal flying speed), but if the tow pilot is, shall we say, less than accurate holding a steady speed, the ailerons give quicker response in leveling the wings and you can keep it under control. Typically, aileron equipped glider also have less dihedral, which also helps the higher speed controllability on the tow.
So, remember, with polyhedral rudder only gliders, climb steep at low speed. If you have ailerons, you can go a bit faster. We have been using our very simple setup as described in the other thread quite successfully for around 15 years. We were actually doing this just for kicks even before aerotowing became popular among the larger scale glider crowd. The speed factor is something we learned early on.
Feel free to PM me if you would like some more detailed info on how we have been doing our towing. I'm sure there will be some more guys jump in with more great ideas too.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10763226/tm.htm
Both the gliders there are rudder/elevator only. I have towed Gentle Ladies, Sig Risers, GP Spirits, Olympic II, Multiplex Easy Glider (motor removed), and my enlarged Sagitta 900, all with great success, The only one that has ailerons is the Easy Glider.
There is something that I need to warn you about though, When you are towing the polyhedral type, rudder/elevator only gliders, you do not want a fast towplane!!! I cannot stress it enough that speed is NOT your friend when towing. When you look at the speed those gliders normally fly at, you only want to go a little faster than that MAX. What happens if you go too fast is that the glider will become unstable on the tow and start a dutch roll on the end of the line. Once this starts it is nearly impossible to stop, and usually what happens is that the glider causes the towplane to nose down and the speed builds and then you are in trouble. With our Kadet Seniorita tug, we are climbing hard so that the Serniorita is just enoughabove its stall to be safely controllable, and that works perfect. We tried to tow with a Kadet LT-40 one day, and even as slow as an LT-40 can fly, it was still too fast. The glider climbed as though it was on a high start or winch, and the LT-40 was so close to its stall speed that it was "wing rocking" severely.....and then the dutch rolling started!!! Thank goodness for a towline that snapped quickly on us.
With aileron equipped gliders, or the larger scale ones, you can get away with a more speed. You don't need it speed on the tow, (remember the glidersnormal flying speed), but if the tow pilot is, shall we say, less than accurate holding a steady speed, the ailerons give quicker response in leveling the wings and you can keep it under control. Typically, aileron equipped glider also have less dihedral, which also helps the higher speed controllability on the tow.
So, remember, with polyhedral rudder only gliders, climb steep at low speed. If you have ailerons, you can go a bit faster. We have been using our very simple setup as described in the other thread quite successfully for around 15 years. We were actually doing this just for kicks even before aerotowing became popular among the larger scale glider crowd. The speed factor is something we learned early on.
Feel free to PM me if you would like some more detailed info on how we have been doing our towing. I'm sure there will be some more guys jump in with more great ideas too.
10-25-2011, 05:37 PM
#3
Thread Starter
RE: What to tow?
The biggest problem we had with the Maggie and Ventus, is the Maggie at full power was flying at just over the stall speed of the Ventus. Made it a hairy flight to say the least.
We now use a cradle to lift the sail planes. But I want to TOW the plane up. The Maggie is in no way shape or form a fast plane. Sounds like I need to add a tow release to the nose of my 25 year old Wanderer as a test plane.
We have found the slow, high drag glider on the cradle are harder to fly with then the heavy fast gliders.
Thanks.
Buzz.
We now use a cradle to lift the sail planes. But I want to TOW the plane up. The Maggie is in no way shape or form a fast plane. Sounds like I need to add a tow release to the nose of my 25 year old Wanderer as a test plane.
We have found the slow, high drag glider on the cradle are harder to fly with then the heavy fast gliders.
Thanks.
Buzz.
10-25-2011, 08:36 PM
#4
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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RE: What to tow?
The biggest problem we had with the Maggie and Ventus, is the Maggie at full power was flying at just over the stall speed of the Ventus. Made it a hairy flight to say the least.
We now use a cradle to lift the sail planes. But I want to TOW the plane up. The Maggie is in no way shape or form a fast plane.
Sounds like I need to add a tow release to the nose of my 25 year old Wanderer as a test plane. We have found the slow, high drag glider on the cradle are harder to fly with then the heavy fast gliders.
We now use a cradle to lift the sail planes. But I want to TOW the plane up. The Maggie is in no way shape or form a fast plane.
Sounds like I need to add a tow release to the nose of my 25 year old Wanderer as a test plane. We have found the slow, high drag glider on the cradle are harder to fly with then the heavy fast gliders.
Did you have a look at my other thread for a towhook/release idea?? It can even be as simple as a piece of velcro (hook side) glued to the bottom of the nose, and another piece (fuzzy side) on the end of the towline. I have heard that a lot of guys are using that system with great success. All it takes to release is a bit of a "tug" upwards and away you go.
10-26-2011, 04:38 PM
#5
Thread Starter
RE: What to tow?
Here are two video of our attempts to do this.
In this video, it is not a high quality, it was done with a digital camera not a video camera. You can see it does not go well. You can see the Ventus stall as we turn down wind. As it stall it goes bad real fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWpUmOSSDtQ
This is the first launch of my converted low wing trainer with my own idea of a cradle. We have about 40 or 50 launches on it now. The glider is a 2 meter Fling. In the wind he still had a 45 minute flight. We have launched the Tower Vista, my 25 year old Wanderer, a 3.6 pound Ventus. That is our glider fleet
Here is a video of the Maggie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHyio...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su_EcAMLiOw
Just found this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0qZI...eature=related
So If I could have two glider tugs in my fleet, that would be good to have
Thanks.
Buzz.
In this video, it is not a high quality, it was done with a digital camera not a video camera. You can see it does not go well. You can see the Ventus stall as we turn down wind. As it stall it goes bad real fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWpUmOSSDtQ
This is the first launch of my converted low wing trainer with my own idea of a cradle. We have about 40 or 50 launches on it now. The glider is a 2 meter Fling. In the wind he still had a 45 minute flight. We have launched the Tower Vista, my 25 year old Wanderer, a 3.6 pound Ventus. That is our glider fleet
Here is a video of the Maggie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHyio...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su_EcAMLiOw
Just found this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0qZI...eature=related
So If I could have two glider tugs in my fleet, that would be good to have
Thanks.
Buzz.
10-26-2011, 06:54 PM
#6
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RE: What to tow?
Yup, that looks promising for sure, I do see what you mean about towing the Ventus though. It is definitely a bit much glider for your Maggie. You should be able to do it with your smaller and lighter gliders though.
Ido want to point out one thing, the dutch rolling I mentioned caused by too FAST on the tow is fairly evident in that last video of the Maggie towing that foam glider. You can see it start to "sway" side to side a bit just after takeoff, but where I noticed it the most is from the 1:00 mark on, and really bad from 1:25 and on. That glider does look to fly faster, and has ailerons by the look of it, so they were able to keep it under control a bit better. With a polyhedral glider with rudder only it tends to go a lot more than that one did, and can get completely out of hand. With the nice slow towplane though you should be fine.....but, theres only one way to find out!!! Giv'er a try!!!
Ido want to point out one thing, the dutch rolling I mentioned caused by too FAST on the tow is fairly evident in that last video of the Maggie towing that foam glider. You can see it start to "sway" side to side a bit just after takeoff, but where I noticed it the most is from the 1:00 mark on, and really bad from 1:25 and on. That glider does look to fly faster, and has ailerons by the look of it, so they were able to keep it under control a bit better. With a polyhedral glider with rudder only it tends to go a lot more than that one did, and can get completely out of hand. With the nice slow towplane though you should be fine.....but, theres only one way to find out!!! Giv'er a try!!!
10-26-2011, 07:16 PM
#7
Thread Starter
RE: What to tow?
Yes I could see that. It seems if you get it to fast, it will pull to one side or the other then it just gets worse. We have no problems with the cradle. The slower type gliders are harder to lift though. The wings create so much lift, you really have to use a lot of down elevator. Plus they keep the plane from turning. You need to use a lot of rudder or mix it into the ailerons.
Buzz.
Buzz.
