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Winch?

Old 02-24-2004, 05:12 AM
  #1  
Rydh
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Default Winch?

Hi!

I just made a winch for my sailplanes but im not sure of whitch "speed" is rekomended

I made it from own ideas and estimatet the required speed to 10M/s, is that too mutch?

After I finiched the winch a saw some diffrens numbers on the internet, in the span from 3-4m/s upp to 35m/s



The motor is from a weelchair, we are making the drivesystems for those where i work so an engine was not expensive!(Free) and it allso came whit a elektromagnet brakedisk!

The engine revs 2900rpm 300W output @22volts, but i'm running it on 12v so i have ~1500rpm 150W and an 120mm "axel"

//Rydh
Old 02-24-2004, 09:28 AM
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rogerflies
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Default RE: Winch?

Most of the winches I've seen, and all of the ones I've made using automobile starter motors, have used a 2" diameter hub on the winch drum. That gives plenty of torque for line tension. The speed is controlled by "pulsing" the footswitch to turn the motor on and off. It looks like the hub on yours is about 4". That's probably too much unless you're launching really light planes.

I used to build winches using outboard engine starters which appear to be about the same size as the motor you're using. On those winches, I used a hub diameter of 1.5".

The other problem I see is that you don't have enough room for the line, unless it's really small.

Here's a photo of one of my winches which uses a starter from a 350 cubic inch Chevy V8 engine. The hub is 2", the OD is 6", and the width between the flanges is almost 4". That will hold about 2000' of 170-pound braided nylon line.

Roger
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Old 02-24-2004, 10:21 AM
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Rydh
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Default RE: Winch?

ORIGINAL: rogerflies

Most of the winches I've seen, and all of the ones I've made using automobile starter motors, have used a 2" diameter hub on the winch drum. That gives plenty of torque for line tension. The speed is controlled by "pulsing" the footswitch to turn the motor on and off. It looks like the hub on yours is about 4". That's probably too much unless you're launching really light planes.

I used to build winches using outboard engine starters which appear to be about the same size as the motor you're using. On those winches, I used a hub diameter of 1.5".

The other problem I see is that you don't have enough room for the line, unless it's really small.

Here's a photo of one of my winches which uses a starter from a 350 cubic inch Chevy V8 engine. The hub is 2", the OD is 6", and the width between the flanges is almost 4". That will hold about 2000' of 170-pound braided nylon line.

Roger
I guess that my motor is a lot more lowreving than the regular 12 motors, att 120mm hub i will get 9-10m/s speed and 1.5 kilos of tension.

I dont intend to build a competition winch, i vill just have it to play whith myself.

My biggest consern is whitch speed to use, but after seacrhing i bit on the net now i think that 10m/s is a good speed to start whith.

//Rydh

EDIT: I'm just going to test with 200meters of 0.5mm nylon line, it will break at 20+kg so i think it vill do it.
Old 02-24-2004, 06:08 PM
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rogerflies
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Default RE: Winch?

That size line will probably be OK for planes up to three pounds. You might have to replace it fairly often if the ground is rough.

What kind of switch do you plan to use for controlling the motor?

I really like the magnetic disc brake. How do you get it to come on? Ideally, the brake should come on when the line starts to go slack. It should stay on until all the residual tension in the line is gone.

Roger
Old 02-25-2004, 02:50 AM
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Rydh
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Default RE: Winch?

ORIGINAL: rogerflies

That size line will probably be OK for planes up to three pounds. You might have to replace it fairly often if the ground is rough.

What kind of switch do you plan to use for controlling the motor?

I really like the magnetic disc brake. How do you get it to come on? Ideally, the brake should come on when the line starts to go slack. It should stay on until all the residual tension in the line is gone.

Roger
I plan to build a pedal whit two steps, step one: the break will be "switched off"(by koneckting it to the battery) and the drum will roll free, step two: the motorn will get its power and start to turn. The motor uses aprox. 15A so a ordinary relay will work fine.

The break is normaly clampet by springs and when the elecktromagnet is turned on the break releases, wee have breakes here where i work that can hold from 1Nm upp to 25Nm

http://www.keb.de/kebneu/english/fs_mt_cstop_e.htm

//Rydh
Old 02-25-2004, 09:57 AM
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rogerflies
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Default RE: Winch?

The footswitches I make have two microswitches with each one controlling one of the two solenoids. The switches close in sequence as the pedal is depressed. This reduces wear on one of the solenoids, provides extra protection against a runaway winch, and allows you to tell if one of the solenoids has welded contacts before the other one goes bad.

The one problem with a sequenced-switch set-up is that it's hard for some people to modulate the pedal as they're launching the plane. That's especially true if they use their right foot on the switch and launch with their right hand. I learned early on to use my left foot on the switch as I launched with my right hand. I can work the switch better, and I can give the plane a much better toss without losing my balance.

My very first winch was a six-volt VW generator rigged to run as a motor on twelve volts. I doubt that it had any more power than your motor, but it did a pretty good job launching the little Oly 650 I was learning to fly. The drum was a 1.5" round wood piece with 1/8" plywood endplates. The line was only 30-pound test. Believe me, your winch looks a LOT better.

Roger
Old 02-29-2004, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: Winch?

Some new pics!



//Rydh
Old 03-02-2004, 03:10 AM
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rogerflies
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Default RE: Winch?

That should work OK. What are you going to use for a turnaround pulley? Here's some photos of a 3" turnaround I made. Using the rope from the TA to the two stakes provides additional support in soft ground. It also keeps the winch line from getting caught on the stake. It will just slide up the rope and over the pulley.

Roger
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Old 03-02-2004, 03:46 AM
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Default RE: Winch?

200 meters of line is going to be a bit short... that gives 100 meters from winch to turn-around (max run-out) and probably under 80 meter launch height. I use 200 yards ( a bit less than 200 meters 36 inch/yard... 39.X inch/meter) on a High-start.

Ahigh-start does not double back... so I get the full length... and then sometimes the glider stretches the rubber back out at peak of launch. (I've had to come down to get off the hook when not using a servo release...)

It'll work OK for testing... but you'll probably want more line later if your field size allows it.
Old 03-02-2004, 05:23 AM
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Default RE: Winch?

I tested it yesterday, but with no success!, It didn't have the speed to lift my plane so i'm going to change the solnenoid ang give it 24 volts!, then i will get 20m/s and 300W power, i hope that it will work then

rogerflies:

I just made a simple stick whith an aluminum pulley and no bearing, it was a bit of a struggle to get it in to the ground, remember that it's winter here and the ground is frozen!, it wasn't easy to find the line in the snow either!

FHHuber:

You're right!, it was a bit short, but when i flew when i was yunger i only used 50meter line but today it seemed a bit lame![8D]
On the pics there is 200meter line on the hub so there is room for more!

//Rydh
Old 03-02-2004, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: Winch?

Put a 2 inch wide (5 cm) about 10 inch long (30 cm) bright colored "streamer" right by the ring that hooks on the plane. Makes finding the end of the line much easier. (and tends to have the end blow back toward you a bit... so you don't have to walk as far.)
Old 03-09-2004, 04:45 AM
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Default RE: Winch?

This weekend i ran it on 24v and it works great!
The plane rices to the sky like a bullit from a gun!

The only setback was the solenoid, it was to weak so now i'we cut off the solenoid fron an old car startermotor and it works perfekt!

Its i bit tight to fit 200meters of 1,4mm "curtain line" on the hub but it doesn't realy matter because you unly have all the line on the fore storage, if i want to use a longer line i will have an exra hub and a cordless drill to wind it upp


//Rydh
Old 03-09-2004, 08:21 AM
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rogerflies
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Default RE: Winch?

Glad to hear you got it working. I've got one question, though. Since power is required to release the brake, how do you pull the line back after the launch? Does someone have to hold the switch down a little to release the brake while you pull the line back?

I've always thought you should only have the line you needed on the drum. Having extra line reduces the pull on the line and puts more load on the motor. If you decide to make a new drum sometime, here's an idea I came up with a while back.

The section of the drum on the right holds the extra line you aren't using. Regardless of the distance to the turnaround, the winch has the same feel and line speed. The grooves in the divider keeps the line there from being worn as the winch is being used.

Roger
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Old 03-09-2004, 03:32 PM
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Default RE: Winch?

I have a switch that i can turn on to release the brake, and when i return to the winch i switch it off så the bake "clamps" again.

I think that we have the same thougts about the line!, i have 200 meters om the drum and i plan to normaly use all that line, but if i want to use more line i have it on an extra drum and conect it to the original line. To wind i upp i plan to use a cordless drill.

//Rydh
Old 03-16-2004, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Winch?

Some uppdates!

Now I'm using a solenoid from an old startmotor, i just cut it of the motor!

I allså made a plate to mount all parts on, the batteries seem to work good despite the low cost.

In total: what you see in the pics has cost me something in the order of 30Euros

This evening the spring came to sweden an the temparature was about 10degrees (celsius!) so I took the chanse to fly a couple of fligths and averything works perfekt!








//Rydh

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