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RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring Discuss rc gliders,rc sailplanes and slope soaring in this forum. Thermaling techniques, airfoils, tips, etc

Your years of experience needed here!!

Old 03-05-2004, 09:26 PM
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Tetley
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Default Your years of experience needed here!!

Ok, so im doing the rounds of local model shops looking for a new project, i see a 'mytus 2500s' kit reduced in price due to kit being incomplete!! it looked real pretty and was a bargain. So i got it, 1 glass fuse, wings and an elevator!! oh and some instructions mostly in cz with a few scatterd English phrases lol..After working out the cg (many thanks to FHhubber and DBcherry for ya help there) and spending a week or so sanding and gluing its ready You can see in pics how i layed out the front end! no plans with it so i just went ahead and did my best .



What i would like to know from you expert guys is..What can i expect from this model in terms of performance, agility, turn rate, any recommendations for dr settings on my tx i have them at 50% on a flick switch (flash 5fx), will it perform good aerobatics or just basic glide patterns...The info on this model is pretty hard to find, the company's webby is no longer around (teltech.cz) and the only review i can find is in cz and every translator i try on it just makes it worse!!..

[link=http://musiolek.rkka.cz/mcaf/mytus.htm]CZ REVIEW translate and i luv u long time!![/link]

I'm running 4 x hitech micro servo's and a flash 5 fx tx with comp mixing ect.

2.5 m w/span
1200 grms weight
length 1120mm
200mm root chort,150mm tip chord
Halfspan 1222
wing area 686 sq in
total wing load 7.3 oz per sqft

Ok folks tell me what you think, sock it to me! good or bad i wanna hear it all..

Thanks in advance Jim.
Old 03-06-2004, 02:55 AM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

ORIGINAL: Tetley
What i would like to know from you expert guys is..What can i expect from this model in terms of performance, agility, turn rate, any recommendations for dr settings on my tx i have them at 50% on a flick switch (flash 5fx), will it perform good aerobatics or just basic glide patterns...The info on this model is pretty hard to find, the company's webby is no longer around (teltech.cz) and the only review i can find is in cz and every translator i try on it just makes it worse!!..

'm running 4 x hitech micro servo's and a flash 5 fx tx with comp mixing ect.

2.5 m w/span
1200 grms weight
length 1120mm
200mm root chort,150mm tip chord
Halfspan 1222
wing area 686 sq in
total wing load 7.3 oz per sqft

Ok folks tell me what you think, sock it to me! good or bad i wanna hear it all..

Thanks in advance Jim.

1200 grams.. 2.2 lb/kg... 2.66 lbs appx? (am I doing that right? I thought you said 12 oz of lead was in the nose...)
(I hate mixing metric and US measuremnts... and not familiar enough with metric...)

If my calculation is right (I never do the wing load calcs... just area and total weight. So I have no number to compare there...) You have a bit more area than a Gentle Lady... and about the same weight. The thing's going to be a FLOATER!

The larger sapn... will make it not turn as tightly in a flat turn... (best for thermaling) but its not going to be bad. The light dihedral angel will help you keep the rudder turns flat. (much flatter than a Gentle lady because of its large dihedral.)
******************
Assuming no ailerons....

I don't SEE spoilers or ailerons....

That flat of a wing I would expect ailerons. (getting it into a bank without them may be a problem... getting it back level without them may be a MUCH bigger problem.) If it desn't have ailerons... be very careful. Do some test glides on a football field or someplace FLAT and LONG. See how it turns. (be gentle... or it may tuck a wing... and no aileron to level it would be disastrous.)

The servo count says you have ailerons... The pictures don't show them.
******************


Assuming you DO have ailerons... set a HIGH differential. Almost all upward movement, not much downward. this reduces adverse yaw to nearly nothing. Roll rate won't suffer... that thing is not intended for axial rolls. Its intended for thermal hunting and maximizing durration aloft.

If you WANT... you can set the ailerons up to be spoilerons... killing lift at both wingtips will aid in making precision landings. You won't want as much upward movemnt from the ailerons in spoiler mode as in aileron mode... or you might lose roll authority. (especially with large differential dialed in...)

*****

Looks like "a keeper." Not the highest performance thermal hunter... but it won't be a slouch about it either. It looks like a good intermediate level model. A big step up from 2 meter planes like the Gentle Lady (which I compare EVERYTHING to...)
Old 03-06-2004, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

Thanks again FHhubber, im starting to think you are the forum god( and the designer of the gentle ldy hahaha), ok weight,on the box it said 980,grms with the weight i added in the nose i was guestimating for ths thread.[:-]

Ailerons, it has em , very long thin rons running from mid wing right to the tip, 1 micro servo per ron monted in the wing, i have set the flapperons on a 3 way switch (pos 1 norm flight,pos 2 approach with elev mixed in to avoid ballooning, and pos 3 flappers are adjustable via throttle lever (if u look at the pics in the cz link in my orig post u can just see the ailerons!!..)

Another q i had was, this kit did not contain a launch hook, does this mean it was meant only for slope, or can i fit one???, the fuse is a 2 piece f/glass with the seam top and bottom (a very fine glass cloth to) my thought where along the lines of a tow hook hurtling of into the distance and my nose end missing or at best the bottom end ripped out...your thoughts please!!..

Spoilerons,?? like flapperons but go up ^ instead of down ?, i think i can mix that set up....

Assuming you DO have ailerons... set a HIGH differential. Almost all upward movement, not much downward. this reduces adverse yaw to nearly nothing. Roll rate won't suffer... that thing is not intended for axial rolls. Its intended for thermal hunting and maximizing durration aloft.
....... thank you sir, was thinking it had alot of down on the ron mix, maybe enough to turn it the wrong way [:-]thanks. adjustment made.

Ok keep your thought coming thanks...Jim
Old 03-06-2004, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

It's hard to tell from the pic but the airfoil looks like it's not just "another flat bottomed one". That will help greatly with penetration while the light weight will help with thermalling. And from what you describe this IS a thermal ship. Even at your guestimate weight you'll have a nice wing loading for thermalling. Funny they don't show a hook on the belly. Is there a mounting plate or larger keel in that area? The size and weight you're describing is much to large and/or light for the slope in anything other than lighter winds.

If you've never flown an aileron model in thermals before don't max out your visual range until you develop a real feel for the way the model flies. It's not a "guided free flight" model like most poly ships are. You'll need time and visual linkage to develop the control habits required to fly this one on auto-pilot.

There's a lot more work required to fine tune the control setup with these types of model but in the end I think you'll have a super nice thermal machine there.
Old 03-06-2004, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

Hi

Looking at the website the model was electrified with a motor in the nose this will add much more weight than the mentioned been a 2.5 m you would need at least 10 cells wich will trow your weight off.

Also looking at the pictures this plane will be able to do some quick turns.

If u dont want ot go electric u can locate a towhook in the nose and get a plane to tow u up. I wont recomed bungee for this plane but on a winch it would do good.

The fuse is very aerodinamic so u porbabley will have a good penetration if u have a computer radio u can change the wing chamber raising your airlerons about 1 to 2 mm this will give u speed for thermaling u do the reverse.

Not knowing the airfoil its dificult to predict how it would fly.


With a root 0f 200mm and only 2.5 m ws u have quit a bit f wingarea so it should thermal well.

Once u are up there try a wide loop and c what it does.


Saludos Landi
Old 03-06-2004, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

Spoilerons are superior to flaperons. (yes.. up, not down, is the difference) on sailplanes such as yours.

Flaps add lift and drag. You don't need more lift. Spoilerons simply kill lift (In spoileron mode.. if you get to where they are adding a lot of drag... you start to lose aileron authority) But the reduced angle of attack at the tips will alow a hight pitch angle of the aircraft at sloww speeed without risking a wing dropping when it stalls. You can stall the center and be flying on the tips and the WHOLE WING can act as a huge airbrake. EXCELLENT for a near 0 airspeed landing. (slowly feed up elevator and drag the tail...Plop!... its down.)
(simplistic explaination... but that's basicly why you want the setup)

Yo can add a launch hook to just about anything... some low aspect ratio low wing models need a dual hook setup that has one hook on each wing up to 30% of span (of the single wing) out from the fuselage.

I consider a High-Start launch safer for a lightly structured model than a winch... The High start is not going to pull any harder than when yo stretch it back. If the model can't take max tension... don't pull back so far. I have been known to take a fish scale and pull the high start back to where I have a 3X model weight tension... (almost any sailplane will handle 4 G's with ease.)

You can always pull harder if the tension was not enough... you can't remove tension easilly after you release the model. (you can by diving at the stake... but that generally rips the wings off.)
Old 03-07-2004, 02:31 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

Since it's originally a large electric, when adding a tow hook for a winch ( a hi-start will get a hernia with something that large) the internal fuselage structure should be improved a LOT!
The hook installation needs a strong tie-in to the wing hold downs. A few layers of heavy glass-fibre or Kevlar™ or CF matt epoxied into place with a good solid block for the hook mount to attach to...
Find the c.g. as you intend to fly it, and locate that on the side of the fuselage.
The hook should be somewhere about 15° ahead of a line dropped from the c.g. to the fuselage bottom.
And the mount should permit adjusting forward and aft of that point.
The wing mount itself will see many more g's than it would as an electric. Both the wing tie-in structure and the fuselage parts should be improved.
Weight won't be a problem as the plane without the electric stuff will be kilograms lighter anyway.
Old 03-08-2004, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

@FHHuber

Sorry but I dont agree with the theorie that spoilerons are superior that flaperons on any kind of plane both settings have a place and spezific envioroment for its use.

One u use if u wnat alittle more lift or slow speed flying this would lowering your airlerons and flaps (if u have any) about 1 to 3 degree. this will give u much more stability for slow turns in a thermal current.

Second lifting your airlerons and flaps (if u have any) up about 1 to 3 degrees will give u a speed setting wich will let u cover distances at a high speed wittout loosing much altidude also very usefull when u want to go against the wind. Or for low passes .

Saludos Landi
Old 03-08-2004, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

sorry fokker i also dont agree have you flown competions before spot landing you need to drop your speed and keep lift relitively the same another advantage of flaperons is that you can launch in nearley 0 wind with your lift i feel flaps are king
Old 03-08-2004, 01:58 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

There is NO single "best" anything, in reality.
Different strokes for different folks.
I could care less about the 100 point spot landing when all I want to do is get the plane back.
Some planes just don't need extra parts.
Others must have them to be competitive.
Crow for Thermal Duration... Spoilers for RES... neither for just putting around the sky... the need is up to the user.
There's all types of interest here, so any one solution can be correct for some, but not others.
Old 03-08-2004, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

@ tall paul

I tend to agree with u but still this is a discusion forum so if we all would agree on all matters there would no be a need for a discusion forum.

Anyway this is the fun part expose your ideas and try to defend them with theorie and praxis.

Saludos

Landi
Old 03-08-2004, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

I now but when your flying World champs a 1000 point spot can be the difference between winning or loosing
Old 03-08-2004, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

ORIGINAL: Sangoma_pilot

I (k)now but when your flying World champs a 1000 point spot can be the difference between winning or loosing
Quite true and no one is arguing that fact. But for every pilot that needs to hit the consisten 100% landings to do well in competition there are probably about 1000 guys that are happy to toodle around catching thermals and don't give a spit about landing. Granted some of those toodlers are demanding on model performance and will be flying some pretty fancy equipment but for them it's the FLYING that is important and not the landing. For the less demanding folks there's nothing wrong with lesser equipment as long as it fits their needs.

You're obviously in the category that takes their equipment seriously but not everyone else does. As Paul suggested in his last post there's room for all levels of model and systems.
Old 03-08-2004, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

I did say... on sailplanes SUCH AS HIS...

Yes, each has a better time to be used. Flaperons on his model would be a mistake, inviting the tip to stall begfore root while landing. (not a fun thing to have happen)

ORIGINAL: Landi

@FHHuber

Sorry but I dont agree with the theorie that spoilerons are superior that flaperons on any kind of plane both settings have a place and spezific envioroment for its use.

One u use if u wnat alittle more lift or slow speed flying this would lowering your airlerons and flaps (if u have any) about 1 to 3 degree. this will give u much more stability for slow turns in a thermal current.

Second lifting your airlerons and flaps (if u have any) up about 1 to 3 degrees will give u a speed setting wich will let u cover distances at a high speed wittout loosing much altidude also very usefull when u want to go against the wind. Or for low passes .

Saludos Landi
I'm also assuming a relitively low amount of glider experience.. and the setup suggestions are the SAFEST... not the highest performance.
Old 03-08-2004, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

[quote]ORIGINAL: FHHuber

I did say... on sailplanes SUCH AS HIS...

Yes, each has a better time to be used. Flaperons on his model would be a mistake, inviting the tip to stall begfore root while landing. (not a fun thing to have happen)

ORIGINAL: Landi



I'm also assuming a relitively low amount of glider experience.. and the setup suggestions are the SAFEST... not the highest performance.

Well at least u did agree with me partially

Saludos Landi
Old 03-08-2004, 06:37 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

I haven't flown World Champs since 1960..
AMA FAI Control Line Team, Budapest,Hungary.
FAI Team Race.. I think they call it F2C today.
Were I interested in dorking the spot, I could do that.. came close today when flying the ZAGI™ out in the boonies, where clear areas are few and far..
The big guys make it look kinda hard on the airplane though.
Old 03-08-2004, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

ORIGINAL: Tall Paul
....(on lawndart landings)....
The big guys make it look kinda hard on the airplane though.
Yeah, you see them take out a divot wider and thicker than a prize golf hacker and then realize how THAT feels coming up the shaft and into your hands and then think about how it feels to the poor model. I shudder at what we expect these poor craft to put up with.
Old 03-09-2004, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

I agree but here's a idea why not have spoilers and flaps that is what most new gliders have now
Old 03-09-2004, 02:16 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

Well, spoilers and flaps and ailerons.. puts a lot of stuff in the wing.
Weight and inertia goes up.
And decisions, decisions, decisions... which to use when?
Load the plane to the task it will be doing, not what it could be doing maybe never.
Providing for crow is probably the optimum solution.. ailerons and flaps.
My gliders don't fly fast enough to exploit ailerons, so I prefer spoilers, with rudder-elevator.
Old 03-10-2004, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: Your years of experience needed here!!

ORIGINAL: Tall Paul

Well, spoilers and flaps and ailerons.. puts a lot of stuff in the wing.
Weight and inertia goes up.
And decisions, decisions, decisions... which to use when?
Load the plane to the task it will be doing, not what it could be doing maybe never.
Providing for crow is probably the optimum solution.. ailerons and flaps.
My gliders don't fly fast enough to exploit ailerons, so I prefer spoilers, with rudder-elevator.
Yes but a glider has to be built to have all this load.

And inertia is good if u want high energy retention for aerobatics.

For slow flying non scale gliders I agree with u just poilers should be enough.

Saludos Landi

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