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Cloud Bound 4

Old 09-23-2004, 08:14 PM
  #76  
McLeodAviation
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Roland,

Thanks for the tip. I sheeted the stabilizer back to the first spar and now is much stiffer and stronger. I also added a little sheeting to the leading edge of the ruddervators and they seem strong enough too. I certainly have added some weight to these parts and will need to add a little extra nose weight.

Now I will build the other side stabalizer and ruddervator. Soon I will begin the huge wings!

Cloudbound, Mike
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Old 09-23-2004, 08:53 PM
  #77  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

Those stabs look really good. I knew they would stiffen up with just a little sheeting.
But I will tell you like my mentor told me; "Sand Grasshopper, sand".
Sand 'em till you think you have gone to far and they will be just about right with just a little more sanding to clean them up.
It's going to be a nice plane.
Old 09-23-2004, 09:00 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

After looking at you photos again it occurs to me that if those stabs were built as a single piece movable flying stab's, the weight could probably be cut in half. It's not a reccomendation just and observation.

Cheers,
Roland
Old 09-26-2004, 12:41 PM
  #79  
Rick K
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Mike, as promised here I am. Gads! I just bet youv'e had lots of fun fitting the angles on all those diagonals . . . Don't think I could hack doing all of them, did you fit them all exactly or just good enough for goverment work so to speak? I'm such a perfectionist that trying to get them right would drive me to the nut-house. It'd take me a year just to do the fuse.

Did you see the column in RCM yet? (Gee, my name in print) I made a one bay model of that idea and it does seem to work, the trouble is that it seems like it's going to take a lot of trial and error fitting to get it to work without any binding. The servo must be positioned just so as does the 'eye-pin' on the spoiler itself in order to get everything to work right. From how the model I made worked, the 'sliding pin' must be fixed at the spoiler end or it has a tendency to hang up, stick out past the edge of the spoiler. This either does not allow the spoiler to open, or won't let it close. Trouble doing that is it seems to cause a bind at times with the sliding pin and the 'EZ' conectors. While this might indeed be a good way to deploy the spoilers, it seems to me that it's going to take too much fooling around with to get to work smoothly and reliably . . . which is what I was trying to get away from . . . all the set up problems with the old 'string & springs' method. Maybe if I ever get to Mike's field (20mi away) I can get a first hand look, maybe I'm doing something wrong. On this plane though I'm going to just use a simple direct linkage set-up like you'd use for flaps or two servo ailerons. I just hope the HS-61's (15oz tq) I happen to have on hand will be strong enough to do the job. I pulled them out of a 1.5m electric sailplane I built years ago, they controlled the tail surfaces so I'd think they'll work for my 3m's spoilers??? Geez though they're awfully small, 1.25"X.5"X1"

Here's a thought: Don't throw out old catalogs youv'e aquired, the only way I was able to discern the output of those 61's was to dig out an old 97' Tower catalog. I also sold an old but NIB heli engine lately. It was a good thing I was able to look in that same Cat. and be able to tell the would be buyer the HP rating of it that he wanted to know before buying.
Rick K
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Old 09-26-2004, 04:54 PM
  #80  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Welcome back Rick,

I need to go grab me a November RCM and read the article you are in. Congratulations for getting your name and ideas in the article, thats very cool!

I am installing the diagonals very precisely. Not like a perfectionist although looks very good. The tail diagonals are 1/16" thick balsa. They are easily cut with my exacto knife and no need for sawing or sanding. Goes together fairly fast.

I have both stabilizers completed and am working on the second ruddervator. This evening I will also work on mounting the v-tail. After I mount the tail will post some pictures.

Are you using the tow hook that came with your Skybench Viking kit?

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 09-26-2004, 05:17 PM
  #81  
Rick K
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Mike, It wasn't my idea that Mike Lee published, just my question to leed into his column. No I didn't use the Skybench provided tow-hook, looked kinda weak to me. Instead I used a hook from my one of myparts box . . . I think it was from my org. Oly II kit from years ago. When I decide to 'De-commision' a plane I take all of the hardware off before I trash it. I save everything.
Rick K
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:35 PM
  #82  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi,

I have my tailfeathers finished. I noticed the incidence did not look correct compared to the wing. I used my Robart incedence meter and found the tail mount has 4 degrees positive incedence without any shims. This is alot. I think the stabilizers should have the same incedence as the wing?

The tail mount is designed to be adjustable with shims. I don't think this necassary and the wing and tail should be set at equal incedence. What do you think?

After studying this I think the best solution is to lower the front wing rod a little to even things up.

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 09-29-2004, 04:55 PM
  #83  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

If you are in fact going to plan to shim your stabalizer then you can set it at zero. However most planes are going to have two to three degrees of incidence. I don't think zero is going to fly very well.
I am glad to see your making progress. Did you sort out you wing construction? I would be interested to know what you have settled on.
Keep those pictures coming!

Cheers,
Roland Beach
Old 09-29-2004, 09:27 PM
  #84  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Roland,

I can't decide where to set the tail incedence. Guess I will mount at 3 degrees positive for the first test flight and can shim from there.

No, I have not studied the wings yet. Will be very soon because everything else is almost finished. I am thinking of adding larger spruce spars and possibly carbon fiber. I know carbon fiber is best however I have extra spruce on hand.

I am looking to buy my first programmable radio for this project. I have my sights set on buying a like new, used Multiplex Cockpit 7 channel radio.

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 09-29-2004, 10:05 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

There are a couple of ways to looks a the wing struycture. If you use spruce spars, you can in fact epoxy carbon strips over the wood spars for extra strength. That's certainly the easy way and it gives you a stronger wing with out hoing out on a limb making changes.
The other option is to use the carbon in a heavier thickness and let it become the spar (both top and bottom). The area between the two carbon fiber spars is filled with balsa shear web connectors (grain is oriented vertically in realtion to the horizzintal spar caps). You end up with no wood spar at all. This is the construction we use on the Hawk and it's awesome. We have yet to break one. Some have been beat up but never, ever broken one. I have seen them take some terrible licks.
I have said enough on that subject, as we say around our club "it's your toy".
Regarding your new transmitter, I would sure try and talk you into a full 9 channel. If you want all of the sailplane pre programed features I think you will probably have to go to nine channels especially if you run 4 servos in the wing (2 ailerons and 2 flaps). There may be systems that will do everything for full house sailplanes on 7 channels but I couldn't find one.
I recently bought a 9 channel Futaba 9CAP. I will be honest it's very intemidating. Programing at first is a struggle, but I have finally gotten to learn the quirks and it will do everything except churn butter. Futaba may not be the brand you like but check carefully on what the 7 channel sailplane program will do. My researce caused me to bit the bullet and go for 9. But that's your decision.
I don't think you can go wrong on 3 degrees on the tail. I know 0 - 0 is not going to work.
Let us know what's happening, If we can help give us a shout.

Cheers,
Roland Beach
Old 09-29-2004, 11:36 PM
  #86  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi,

I couldn't resist doing a quick mock-up. Taped on the ruddervators and the tail block. Tail block still needs to be contour sanded.

Each stabilizer spans 18". Looks big!

Cloudbound, Mike
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:43 PM
  #87  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

I am beginning to hear those zoom, zoom swoosh, sounds.

Roland
Old 09-30-2004, 02:51 PM
  #88  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi All,

On RCGroups I met Chris who built a Cloud Bound 4 back in the day. Chris sent me a picture and said I can post the picture. Check out the incredible color scheme on his model! Said he placed the model in a static show and won first place.
Unfortunately he was not happy with flight performance. Said the model was too heavy and hard to turn. He had to use a pound or more of nose weight. His CB4 was set up with ruddervators, flaps and spoilers.

I plan to use flaperons on my Cloud Bound 4 and should be easy to bank turns. My model will probably be heavy too!

Thanks for the great picture Chris!

Cloudbound, Mike
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:55 AM
  #89  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Well hello,

Cloudbound Mike said my picture was on RC universe of my cloudbound 4 so I had to come and find it.
Thanks Mike, and glad to share.

I see from the pictures that your coming along well. the pictures bring back memmories of my construction.

At the time I built it only the plans were available (lots of cutting to do).

Keep on keeping on. Im watching your progress also.

Chris Brundege
Old 10-09-2004, 12:58 PM
  #90  
forrest adams
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

cloud bound 4 builder, why don't you run the grain on all the v-tail sheeting span wise - the bending stress is primarily span wise. especially, so close to the root where the bending is the greatest.
Old 10-09-2004, 10:07 PM
  #91  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Forest,

Good observation! I was wondering if anyone will notice I didn't place the inner sheeting span-wise. I thought crosswise will prevent twisting more than span-wise. This sheeting is not on the plan and placed either direction is stronger than the original design. Nevertheless if I build another CB4 I would place all the stabilizer sheeting span-wise.

I have not completed much lately on my Cloud Bound 4. I put alot of thought into mounting the v-tail. I bought new metal allen head screws and decided they were too heavy. I decided to go with my original idea using two nylon bolts.

I received my Multiplex Cockpit radio for my CB4 project. This is my first programmable radio and is capable of mixing v-tail, flaperons etc. The Multiplex Cockpit has mini servos and are much smaller and lighter than my standard Airtronics.

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 10-11-2004, 11:10 AM
  #92  
forrest adams
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

span wise will still react torsion, but will react bending MUCH better.

good luck with your first flight
Old 10-22-2004, 07:34 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Mike,

What's happening? Did you give up on Cloud Bound? By now, surely you have the wings done?

Cheers,
Roland
Old 10-23-2004, 11:43 AM
  #94  
Rick K
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Mike, haven't been around for awhile for various reasons . . . mainly the rain here has messed up my 'jury-rigged' phone line conection ( I ran a line from upstairs bedroom window down and across my patio roof through the window in the patio room to my computer. Didn't have a line long enough so I used one of those line joiners . . . which happens to lay on the middle of the roof, and in a nice puddle of water when it rains . . . zonked our whole system until I figured out what was up and un-pluged the line. It took two days for the thing to dry out. I guess I'd better get a 50' one piece line huh?

I'm at the point of having to epoxy parts and I'm puting it off untill the weather is predicted to be warm and stable for a week or two . . . Iv'e had too many problems in the past of epoxy that never 'cured' completely to risk it, anyway Iv'e turned what I thought would be a two month project into, well I guess I'm 3/4ths done . . . a year long one so a few more weeks waiting isn't going to hurt. I'm worried abouut my wing-rod 'tubes', although I mixed the epoxy with great care, to the ml. and it was a nice, 85deg. day, the surface after two weeks is still slightly sticky. I can ***** it with a pin but I can't push it in . . . God I hope it's hard enough! I still have space to add more something. I wonder what went wrong? I was so careful, It's going to be a shame if after a year's work the thing fails on the first flight. Well we'll see, I tell you I'm going to take it really easy on the pedal or the Hi-start.
Rick K
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:31 PM
  #95  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Rick and Roland,

Wish I could say more is finished on my Cloud Bound 4 however I have been busy working on other things. I also am a little frustrated with my CB4 project. I can't decide how to mount the tail and where to set the incedence. I want to finish this project and will continue building this weekend. Your replys are great motivation!

I have an Airtronics Adante kit which will probably be my next project. This is a very strong design with foam wings and a huge aluminum wing joiner. Hard winch launches will be no problem for the Adante!

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 10-27-2004, 01:39 AM
  #96  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi Rick,

I had the same problem with epoxy one time. I think the epoxy was old and the 5 minute type. It was strong but sticky to the touch.

Cloud Bound 4 update:

I finished the tail mount on my Cloud Bound 4. I decided to go with two larger nylon bolts rather than the three tiny ones included in my Skybench kit.

Stabalizer currently has about 4 degrees positive incedence! I am going to move the front wing rod location to bring the stabilizer incedence to positive 1 degree. If I want to add more or less incedence for flying I can shim the tail mount.

Picture 1, aluminum V-Tail mounts glued
Picture 2, V-Tail center sandwich parts. Top 1/8" Balsa not shown
Picture 3, Root rib preperation. Tail mount blocks installed.
Picture 4, Finished tail

Cloudbound, Mike
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Old 10-27-2004, 06:54 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Stick your epoxy'd parts in the closet with your hot water heater if you have such a closet. It is generally warm enough to help the epoxy cure out. If you used Devcon 2-ton epoxy formula from the local discount store, it will eventually cure out, but I've had it take over a week to get really cured. I notice that it does not get really hard like some varieties and stays somewhat flexible. So keep the parts in a warm place and give it some more time.

Mike: I think you need to wind up with at least 2-1/2 degrees of incidence on that plane; I don't think you'll like it with just 1 degree.

EJ
Old 10-30-2004, 01:23 AM
  #98  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi,

I laid out the left wing plan and looked over the parts. I noticed the spars included in my CB4 kit are larger than shown on the plan. I emailed Skybench and ask Ray about his wing modifications. Turns out there is a parts list with information on Ray's modifications included with the CB4 kits. This was missing from my kit and Ray emailed me a copy. The bigger spars with added shear webbing looks strong. Much stronger than the original design.

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 11-06-2004, 11:27 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

Hi,

Here is a quick update on my Cloud Bound 4 project. I give up! Ha ha, just kidding.

I was first confused how to place the updated wing spar design. I now understand and the inner panels bassically use 1/8x3/8 spruce spars with 3/8 vertical grain balsa between them. Then there is 1/16 ply shear webs glued to the sides.

I can't seem to decide which controls to use and where to place the servos. I'd like seperate flaps and ailerons plus spoilers. I am trying to decide how to route all this linkage.

What type of hinges are you guys using for flaps and ailerons on large sailplanes? Are Monokote or tape hinges reliable?

Cloudbound, Mike
Old 11-20-2004, 02:11 AM
  #100  
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Default RE: Cloud Bound 4

CloudBound Mike

How's the building going? Have watched your progress with great interest. Downloaded most of your pics, and have been looking them over. Am trying to get motivated to start on a Sky Bench Challenger (which looks a lot like the Cloud 4). Had a tough time deciding between Cloud Bound and the Challenger. Went with the Challenger just cause I like the looks of a conventional tail better than a V. Had planned on posting my built also. Just need to get finished with a Houston Hawk I'm on at the moment.

Hope your still at it, am looking forward to seeing your wing progress. The pics you've taken so far are terrific.

Green air.

erich

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