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Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

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Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Old 12-14-2001, 05:46 PM
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dgliderguy
 
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Allow me to thoroughly exhaust this thread with on e more comment: The 2X4 is nothing more than a 2X6 with a much shorter wing. If you overlay the plans you will see this. The 2X4 is aptly named, because it flies like a pressure-treated length of 2X4. Way overbuilt (strong/heavy) for its size! They are fun on the slope, but they don't thermal very well, unless the lift is well-developed. Definitely not a first choice for electric conversion, unless you want to pack some serious electrons and zip around doing zoomies.
Old 12-14-2001, 08:21 PM
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Bob Ruth
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Don,
For the sake of trivia and as I recall, The 2X4 came first and the 2X6 followed. Therefore the 2X6 is an enlarged wing 2x4. I found thermal flying my 2x4 not that bad when I flew with the Grand Junction CO. Modellers. Granted a Gentle Lady will find smaller thermals, but it will also pop/crack a wing easier on a hard landing. These were Hi-start flights on flat land and not slope flying.
Thanks for the advice, but I am still interested in a geared motor 2X6 conversion. I will always regret the day I sold my original 2x4 as it was the ship I cut my teeth on and was the longest survivor of my fleet of R/C sailplanes.

Originally posted by dgliderguy
Allow me to thoroughly exhaust this thread with on e more comment: The 2X4 is nothing more than a 2X6 with a much shorter wing. If you overlay the plans you will see this. The 2X4 is aptly named, because it flies like a pressure-treated length of 2X4. Way overbuilt (strong/heavy) for its size! They are fun on the slope, but they don't thermal very well, unless the lift is well-developed. Definitely not a first choice for electric conversion, unless you want to pack some serious electrons and zip around doing zoomies.
Old 12-14-2001, 08:52 PM
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ALAN-RCU
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Default Overbuilt?

So has anyone bothered to do a wing loading comparison? Sometimes the #'s can be useless for a good apples to apples comparison - but I am interested in what the 2x4 to the gentle lady looks like. I'll check it out tonight when I have a minute.

The gentle lady does have a tendency to pop spars, but is easily repaired and I'm still flying one I built almost 20 years ago. I slope soar off the beach and have great rocky encounters and it keeps on ticking. Not to say that a 2x4 isn't a better bet but the GL is strong enought for my into the wind hi-starts and thebother entics i put it through + thermals nicely.

Such a dilemma - I'll have to have one of each now, plus an extra to finish my original quest- electric conversion for those no-slope calm broken highstart days . . .

Al
Old 12-14-2001, 08:55 PM
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Default Not to mention

All this and I am about 50% finished building my new Bird of Time!

AL
Old 12-15-2001, 12:46 AM
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Default Wing Loading

Well,

I'm back again - just had a minute before embarking on the annual Christmas Shopping so taunt-me-with-a-beer trip.

Gentle Lady : 25oz x 663 sq in
HOB 2x6 : 30oz x 590 sq in

The math does not look good for the HOB my friends. . . .


Hmmmmmm
Old 12-15-2001, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Overbuilt?

Originally posted by ALAN


The gentle lady does have a tendency to pop spars.....

Al
My original GL never gave me a problem except at the poly break. A few beginner's landings took its toll there, but as you said easy to repair. My latest one has a 1-piece main spar capped with carbon fiber and spiral wound with kevlar. Handles a contest winch with ease!! I posted a pic of it in the beginners section in the sailplane thread. I took 2nd in 2-meter sportsman at the Tangerine Soaring Champs with it, beaten by a few points by another GL!!!
Honestly, my favorite 2-meter built up poly ship is the Laser Arts Sovreign. A bit more expensive than the GL, 2x6, etc..but WELL worth the price. Oh, and not as easily adapted to E-power.

BTW Al, is this your first Bird of Time? Yer gonna love it! My 2nd BoT is on the bench now...Here's me with #1-

http://isoar.ca/~andrewm/rc/bot/rusty_carver-1.jpg
Old 12-15-2001, 03:45 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

[QUOTE] Originally posted by hattend
I pretty much use the high end stuff so it runs pretty expensive.

Yes, but not everybody can pan gold in the Yukon river!
Old 12-15-2001, 04:30 AM
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Bob Ruth
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Default Re: Wing Loading

Well I will take a 2X4 over a Gentle Lady any time and I have flown both. The 2X4 would look even worse than a 2X6 if you want to play with the math. I really don't care to crank numbers as how a plane feels to me is more important than anything else. I will openly admit and have already posted that the GL is the lighter bird for thermal hunting. I just love the smaller birds that are a bit more rugged, durable and can fit in a small set of wheels like my little tracker. I also have a GL on the shelf to be built along with a Riser 100 and a Spirit, so the larger birds are not off my list by a long shot.
The 2X4 was a bit quicker and respond more swiftly to control inputs. My flight times were often a little shorter than with the GL , but were much more enjoyable. I started on a GL, but really cut my teeth on the 2X4. I assume that my new 2X6 will fall some where between the 2X4 and the GL in performance. Milage and opinions will very and depening on what you are looking for in a sailplane the GL, 2X4, and 2X6 will jockey for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.
The numbers do not make the 2X6 look bad to me, and I don't think they surprised anyone that has flown these three birds or just looked at them.
It is like saying that my buddies Humvee's milage sucks therefore my Geo Tracker is the better car. However driving I-25 in Denver was more fun in the Humvee than a Tracker.

Originally posted by ALAN
Well,

I'm back again - just had a minute before embarking on the annual Christmas Shopping so taunt-me-with-a-beer trip.

Gentle Lady : 25oz x 663 sq in
HOB 2x6 : 30oz x 590 sq in

The math does not look good for the HOB my friends. . . .


Hmmmmmm
Old 12-15-2001, 06:33 AM
  #34  
R. Carver
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Bob (and anyone else flying a GL),
Try reducing the washout to 1/8", and put a 1/8" shim under the trailing edge between the fuse and wing. See how you like that, let me know...


One other thing must be kept in mind when "comparing" different planes performance.... How it is set up and trimmed!! A well trimmed plane will always fly better than a poorly trimmed one. If Joe Novice builds his first kit, say a GL , with no help from Bob Expert, who is coincidentally building a GL too, who's plane do you think will fly better? That's why I always tell people to go check out the local club. I remember the first time I went, the club president gave my plane(Riser 100) a launch. He quickly landed and told me to move the towhook back a little. Now, I had always been pretty happy with the way it went up, but boy did he open my eyes! My plane now launched almost straight up! And that was just the beginning...
But I digress
The lighter wing loading is ALWAYS better, with certain exclusions. Better to be too light than too heavy. The trick is PROPER TRIMMING.
Old 12-15-2001, 06:41 AM
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Default Wing Loading

Bob,

I agree with your points in that one specific trait does not make a great plane. I guess my point is that a GL seems to be a great soaring plane - if built and trimmed properly. My complaint, if any, is that it is not as rugged as my flying style would require. I've chased geese off of golf courses with a power-pod, flown in winds I had no business being outside in, and will try to slope anything - once! I have had my share of cartwheels and tanle-ups flying around bushes on sand spits and thats why i liked the GL - it is easy to repair. However, it is best for true soaring and perhaps a 2x4 ( or x6 ) is a better all round craft for a daily driver.

Not having flown either size HOB, I've only got the math and first person accounts of it's characteristics to gauge it's performance.

Like I said before, the only true answer is ONE OF EACH!

Al
Old 12-15-2001, 06:46 AM
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Default Bird of Time

Rusty,

I like the photo - gets me fired up again to finish that thing and get flying.

What are you using for a radio? I was thinking of one of those little Hitec Focus 3's would do the trick. I like a radio for each plane but it is getting pretty expensive that way! The hitec is cheap, and i use one in a combat plane so another would be familiar to me.

Al
Old 12-15-2001, 06:48 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Originally posted by R. Carver

Try reducing the washout to 1/8", and put a 1/8" shim under the trailing edge between the fuse and wing. See how you like that, let me know... [/B]

Have you tried it? Where does it benefit you? I'll try it Sunday.

AL
Old 12-15-2001, 07:17 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Alan,
Thanks for the compliment! I was flying it with a JR 347. If you decide to use spoilers (which I recommend) you will need a radio capable of spoiler to elevator mixing. Whenever I threw the spoilers, the nose would pitch down pretty violently (probably violent because my spoilers were rather large) so you just mix in some up elevator and you're good to go. Another great feature of computer radios is model memory, one transmitter controls several models.
If you are going to stay with sailplanes a while you will probably want to get a radio with a few more features than the Hitec focus 3 has. I currently use a JR 8103, It's a wonderful radio, but the main reason I got it was because most of the guys at the club fly with JR radios, hence programming help was always handy. Also, I had a lot of Airtronics equipment which JR is compatible with.
Honestly, radio choice is entirely up to you...I don't think that there is one brand that is better than the other. Buy the best radio you can afford...
As far as the washout/shim thing is concerned...just try it. Let me know how it goes
Well, it's bedtime...gotta get up and test fly a buddy's Mantis tomorrow...Life is good!!
Old 12-15-2001, 10:34 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Hello all,
Rusty - a couple of quick questions about the Sovereign. I'm really enjoying building my first. Really like the pod / boom construction. I plan to add a single, center spoiler. Any other tips / mods you would recommend? I have heard some recommend enlarging the V tail? Also am thinking of a second converted to e-power. Did you try this? Any thoughts / help / advice appreciated. Thanks.

Don (see below) is right about the thread getting out of hand. Sorry - if anyone can help, let's start a new one for the Laser Arts products.
Old 12-15-2001, 03:13 PM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Man, this thread has spread all over the map now! But it's a good thread, with lots of good info.

Alan said:

The gentle lady does have a tendency to pop spars.....

I built the GB Electra, which features leading edge sheeting on the top surface back to about the spar, but the sheeting is 'free-hanging', with no cap. As a result, the first time I cranked some g's and put the wing into bending, the sheeting buckled in two or three places along the span, at the aft edge. I had to strip the monokote off the bottom of the wing and add some lengths of 3/16th square strip stock along the aft edge of the LE sheeting (main panels only). Had I been aware of this propensity to crippling during the build process, I could have installed the cap spar before applying the sheeting. A word of warning to Electra builders!

Alan said:

Gentle Lady : 25oz x 663 sq in
HOB 2x6 : 30oz x 590 sq in
The math does not look good for the HOB my friends. . . .

Alan, my HOB 2x6 came in at just 21oz, with microservos and a 270mah battery, plus I swapped out the lite ply fuselage sides with medium density 3/32 balsa sheet. My Gentle Lady (IIRC) was more like 30oz, with standard radio gear. Depends a LOT on how you put 'em together! My point is not that the 2x6 is bigger and lighter, but that it is a much better kit to build, and flies great. The GL flies great, too, but man, what a pisspoor kit!

Alan said:

What are you using for a radio? I was thinking of one of those little Hitec Focus 3's would do the trick.

AMEN to this! I have a JR8103 for my Large Scale sailplanes and specialty stuff where mixing is required, but I now have THREE little Hitec Focus III radios, plus a Focus II. They are just dandy! At only $60 or so, I can install 'em and leave 'em. No more swapping out servos and switches and receivers. Gotta love it. Futaba is now hip to this, and has a very similar radio on the market now, as does Thunder Tiger (Ace). I used to have a small hold-in-one-hand AeroSport II radio, with the metal case, that I just loved (Hobby Shack product through the Cirrus/Futaba line). I was sad when they took it off the market. I had to mothball mine because it was wideband. Hitec saved the day with these cheap but reliable little radios! BTW, I use alkaline batteries in my tranny, never did swap out for nicads. I can fly for weeks on one set of batteries, and not have to worry about charging up the night before. Talk about "leave it in the trunk for that odd free moment of flying". I have been known to commit aviation on my way into work, during my lunch hour, and on my way home, thanks to the compactness and "minuteman" readiness of this radio.
Old 12-15-2001, 06:48 PM
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Default Hitec Focus

I agree,

I have a Futaba 6/computer and it's great for the greasy birds, but for a simple plane like the GL and my combat ( which requires mixing ) the focus is perfect.

Rusty has a good point about spoilers on his Bird of Time, now i'll have to give that a little thought. My wings are done but not covered so i could re-fit. might be a good move. Then, a more advanced radio ($$$$ ouch!) would be required.

I want to think about wing loading a little more but have some comments after a kids basketball game.

Good input-as-usual from all involved. Don't-cha just love the computer age?

AL
Old 12-15-2001, 07:18 PM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Alan,

FWIW, the BOT doesn't really need spoilers. They are a "nice to have" but not a "gotta have". I flew my trusty BOT hard for over three seasons, with no spoilers, just two channels. I never ran into a situation where I wish I had stopping power. In fact, I used to hand catch my BOT as often as not. (As for handlaunchability, I remember three separate occasions where I got lucky and hand tossed my BOT into a speck-out thermal flight-- a whistle-hot, heavy contest ship this one is not!)

If I were planning on flying the BOT in turbulent conditions in a confined schoolyard, where fences and buildings and trees abound in all quadrants, I would be tempted to add spoilers. But at just 43oz AUW, even spot landings at the local club 2 Function contests were a piece of cake with my 2 channel BOT, as long as there was a slight breeze to land into.

My BOT in a state of disrepair at the moment, but it is on my fixit list. I miss it!
Old 12-15-2001, 09:06 PM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Alan,
I got my 8103 for about $250 used in excellent shape. Still had the plastic on the front, actually! The 347 I picked up for $90. Do a little asking around, check the message boards at the local hobby shops, etc... Good deals are out there. Keep in mind that if you stick with sailplanes you will eventually have to bite the bullet.

DGliderguy is absolutely right, the BoT doesn't NEED spoilers. Most of the really good guys hardly ever use them because they really know how to manage energy, so until I get that good I'll take all the glidepath control I can get!

Also:
The GL flies great, too, but man, what a pisspoor kit!
And now your being generous! I agree, calling the GL a "kit" is borderline false advertising But dammit it's cheap...Kit quality is where the Laser Arts kits excell.
Old 12-18-2001, 06:09 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Back to the oringinal point which I think was not really answered well. If you want to convert to electric there is one system I can heartilly recommend:
A Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem reverse
Master Airscrew 3:1 gear box
Master Airscrew 12x8 folding prop
Castle Creations 35 amp ESC
8 cell pack of 1400 AE

Just can't go wrong with that combo, well maybe with the prop on backwards

Whatever you do; have fun
Grant
Old 01-09-2002, 12:39 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Originally posted by dgliderguy


The main reason running direct-drive has gotten such a bad name is because of all those kits that came out which included the motor and 8 inch prop, and called for a 6 cell car battery, such as the GP Spectra, the GB Electra, the H9 Aspire, etc. These planes can typically weigh in at around 3lb or so, and need the extra thrust of a bigger, slower prop. I helped a guy once fly his Kyosho Soarus on 6 cells, that weighed over 53 ounces! It would do a prolonged glide at best.

Hello guys,

I'm currently building up a H9 Aspire stock as my first glider. Obviously there are some thoughts as to how this plane and others of its ilk perform. But I'd like some thoughts on what possible improvements I can make to this bird before I get too far into construction.

My current plan is to use the current motor/prop that came with the kit and a ESC with BEC to help reduce weight. I was also considering using the NiHd batteries to boost run time.

Any thoughts on what else I could do, or what I could do differently here?

Thanks
Old 01-09-2002, 01:01 AM
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Default Electric Pods Now Or Time Warp

Originally posted by Jere L


Hello guys,

I'm currently building up a H9 Aspire stock as my first glider. Obviously there are some thoughts as to how this plane and others of its ilk perform. But I'd like some thoughts on what possible improvements I can make to this bird before I get too far into construction.

My current plan is to use the current motor/prop that came with the kit and a ESC with BEC to help reduce weight. I was also considering using the NiHd batteries to boost run time.

Any thoughts on what else I could do, or what I could do differently here?

Thanks
Well, since it's an ARF there is little you can really do to cut some weight off the plane. If you re-read this whole thread, the consensus is to:

1) make it as light as possible
2) upgrade to a 7 cell motor and battery with the stock prop
or
3) put a gearbox in the plane and turn a bigger prop.

Best bet is to do what you're already planning and then get a different motor or gearbox after determining if the stock setup is satifying for you.

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