canesugarrules

I'm looking for a 2m ARF. Nothing serious, just a basic sailplane. Will an electric thermal well with the extra weight? I'm starting to lean towards a powered glider so I can fly even if there is no lift. And will I be able to take the motor off and fly it unpowered if wanted? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Ed

Ollie

I'm not going to recommend a particular plane because there are more important things to consider.

ARF electrics tend to be over weight and under powered. Unless they are equipped with a good motor, prop and battery combination they will be sluggish in the climb. The wing loading will be about 50% greater than when equipped as a pure sailplane. Good electric power equipment that will fly an (usually over weight) ARF well is quite costly. The sinking speed will be higher, the turning radius larger amd the glide duration shorter. Since thermals come in all sizes and strengths, you will be able to thermal the electric but not as easily or frequently as if it were without the weight of the motor and battery. Thermals are smaller and weaker close to the ground and improve with altitude. The average thermal workable by the electric will be caught at a higher altitude than the pure sailplane.

It is a rare day that thermals are completely missing. I have even thermaled in a light drizzle. The best pilots can thermal almost every time they launch. The worst pilots may not thermal one in a thousand launches. Thermalling is much more about pilot skill than equipment selection. Next to pilot skill is equipment adjustment. A poorly adjusted model will fly right through lift without giving an indication. The same model, when properly adjusted will clearly indicate lift by its reaction.

If you are serious about learning to be a skilled thermal pilot you will seek out and fly with experienced thermal pilots. You will learn more in one flying session with a group than in ten or twenty alone. You will learn quicker if you stick with the same plane untill you learn to get the most from it. If you just want to putter around and go it alone, you will probably be disapointed and may loose interest.

Terror Dactyl

I will make a recomendation to consider. The Aspire (non-motor) and the reason is that they are at a reasonable price (about $99 and are on sale for $79) as well as having an up to date airfoil (S7037).

Yes I have one and like it very well. I even used it in an RES contest today.

Take care Jim

gr8tfly

I have a Global Cirrus 2M. It's a RES (rudder-elevator-spoiler). I highly recommend spoiler's. Much better glide path control when landing. Just hook up the spoiler servo to throttle. Full throttle = spoiler's CLOSED. The direction of the joystick motion mimics the full scale spoiler control (at least on Blanik's and Schweitzer 2-33's). I think it was about $80 at Hobby People.

canesugarrules

Someone at my old field had a powered Aspire and it seemed to fly nicely.

Are the spoilers there to add drag and slow the plane down? Or is there an other purpose for them? Are they necessary or just lagniappe?

How much flight time will a high start give with minimal lift involved? I'm now starting to lean towards a non-powered glider. Thanks for the help guys. Anybody else got some more suggestions? Ed

Smokin Cap

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I bought an electric sailplane 2 weeks ago from dymond models(rc-dymond.com). It's called "Take it Easy". It has a 70" wingspan, 525sq in, weighs 35.7 oz. This glider is awsome for the price. I paid $120.00 for the plane(ARF) with a 600 speed motor, D-50 speed controller and 8x4 foldin propeller installed and ready to go. All I did was install my 3 channel Hitech raido and I was ready to fly 20 min later. I did not fly until the weekend, but my first flight was 53 min long. This bird thermals very nicely. Climout is good with the 600 speed motor and using a sub "C" 6 cell 1900 maH battery pac you get about 15-20 min of motor power.
Im extremely happy with this plane and it has rejuvinated my love of sailplanes/soaring. My next one will be a 112" Wingspan Elipsoid.
This is a pic of it.

Ollie

Spoilers won't help you learn to thermal but, they will help you get down from one when to plane gets so high that you are in danger of loosing it. Spoilers increase drag and reduce the lift coefficient so that the glide slope becomes steeper. This allows you to manage spot landing easier.

You can learn to land precisely without spoilers but it is harder. Doing without spoilers helps you focus on flying precisely and speeds the learning process. Landing precisely without spoilers requires that you use a wider range of the planes speed envelope to control the glide path and to manage the plane's energy more precisely. Flying precisely is a major component of the ability to thermal efficiently and consistently.

The best high starts are available from Aerofoam at:
http://www.aerofoam.com/
With a highstart matched to the size of your model and with the tow hook adjusted properly, you can launch to 400 or more feet of altitude every time. You will need a field that is about 700 feet long in the direction the wind is blowing to fully stretch a highstart with 100 feet of rubber and 350 feet of line. Starting with 400 feet of altitude and without lift, a properly adjusted 2-meter which is carefully flown can get 4 to 5 minute flights.

jetranger-RCU

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I have the Elipsoid be careful when you hook up the ele rod the way they show it you end up with a lot of slop in the linkage also the trans blue it is covered with is useless it will disapeare on a clear day at 200 feet I have the motor gear combo they call for it's $59 works great on 7 cells climbs right out it likes to fly fast other than that it is one nice glider check the ads I've seen it for $99 I got it from Dymond for $129

AirHead256

You didn't mention if you are already comfy w/ a transmitter in your hands. If not, I'd recommend flying foam until you are. The Highlander is quite capable of specking out in a decent thermal from a histart and will survive quite a bit of slope time, too. If you start out green w/ a balsa fuse, you will either want to have an experienced flier help you for a couple months, or get very confortable in your repair shop.
Balsa flies better but is not bouncable on a hard / tree landing like EPP.
If you're new to gliding, consider a Highlander or Mt Toys Gentle Foamy and crank away!!

canesugarrules

I soloed over two years ago, so I think I can handle a sailplane. Thanks for the concern though. Do you guys think the spoilers are worth it? Does anyone know how the GP Spirit compares to the Global Cirrus? They are the same price at Hobby People.

I think I will go with a non-powered plane to keep the price down and the challenge up, unless anyone can convince me otherwise.
Thanks for all your help and please continue with the pointers.

ejbjh

Hi. I have a Spirit and a Cirrus, and I have had the best luck with the Spirit. The spoilers on the Cirrus are affective but the Spirit flys slow enough that landings are not much of a problem. I flew it for over an hour a few days ago and it will fly for several minutes hands off after it is balanced and trimmed right. Other than weight, the only change I made was a slight change in the angle of the horizontal stab. Just my two cents worth. ejbjh Incidentally, this is my second Spirit as I left an inexperienced friend try to fly the first one and he had it going straight down at ++??++ miles per hour. By the time I got hold of the transmitter I was so close to the ground that pulling out I folded the wings but I have winch launched fairlly hard without a problem. Goodluck

aeajr

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ejbjh

Can you comment further on the Cirrus and the Spirit? They seem to be similar planes. The Cirrus seems to have a larger tail.

I will be hi-start and winch launching in a large grass field.

I have two electics parkflyers now. This will be my first sailplane. I want a RES plane and these two seem like good candidates. I will be going for an ARF model.

Your thoughts.

aeajr

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Any recommendations on what hi-start to use with a Sprit?

vtol_guy

my powered glider could really do with some spoilers, i usually have a 200m walk down the runway to go fetch my glider back! :stupid:

aeajr

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Yes, I see you understand!

ec121

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The Spirit can be easily launched with the standard 2meter rubber fron Aerofoam. I use 40lb monofilament from Walmart and a homemade parachute. The string is 140yds and I use all of it. Takes a big field, but you can launch 520 feet on a good day. I also use their 2m competition rubber, but it is for my 100incher. It will pull it up with authority. Might be OK for a Spirit if it is winchable. They say it is for reinforced 2m comp. gliders only. the way it pulls the Apogee, I believe it. As far as spoilers, they are OK, but glide path management will do just about as well unless you are in competition. You just have to fly the plane to learn how it behaves close to the ground and set up a good glide slope. Won't have to walk far if you do it right. Challenging!!

aeajr

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It is like anything else. I hope to learn proper enrgy management, but having the spoilers is just an added feature if I get into a difficult situation either in a thermal or landing.

I don't have to use them, but it is nice to know they are there.

I can pick it up RTF for $140 or build the ARF for $99. Haven't made up my mind, but I am leaning toward the RTF. I will still have to cut in the spoilers and set up the servo, but I have an HS-81 available for the job.

The club has 2 winches so I will learn to winch launch it. Other spirits in the club are winch launched.

FlyingPig-inactive

Spirit...

I'd suggest the ARF. I've just built one and it's not that difficult at all. Besides, the RTF comes with AM radio (Hitec focus 3...if I'm not wrong) and it might not be useful in the future.

Cheers....FlyingPig

aeajr

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Oh, the radio would definately be a throw away, sell off or give away item.

It is just that for $99 I get the ARF, then I add about 10-14 hours of my time plus $36-40 in servos for $135-$139. That doesn't include glue and stuff so add $11 for misc taking me to $150.

With the RTF I save 8-11 hours and two servos are included and installed for $139 which is what tower hobby is selling it for.

I will still have to cut in the spoilers with the RTF and add that servo, but I have a spare HS-81 that is good for this. I sub my Hitec receiver for the AM receiver and I am good to go. Say that takes 3 hours because I am totally new at this.

So, with the RTF I save 7-11 hours and it costs me about the same.

Unless there is something about the RTF that is different from the ARF, I am inclined to go that way. I don't really have a good building area and my time is very tight. If I sneak in 4 hours on the weekend and 1 hour during the week to put into flying, that is where my building time would come from. Right now I am interested in flying, not building.

I have an ARF electric sitting now for two weeks because I can't get to it. 3-6 hours and that is built, but it is a lot smaller than the spirit so the space is not as big a deal.

I can see how, in the future I might actually move to kits, but for now I want to fly rather than build. My leaning is toward the RTF.

ec121

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I would use the AM that comes with the RTF. I have four of them. They will control a glider clear out of sight. I have had my 100 incher so high that I could only see it when it got sideways to me. Still in control! I have never had trouble getting out of a thermal. So, I can't speak for using the spoilers to get out. My trouble has always been staying in one. :-) I have never had any interference with the AM either. You are right about them being a throwaway radio, but I would use it till I needed a better one for something else. I usually change to rechargeable battries in the receiver, but I use the regular AA nonrechargables for the Xmtr. They will last half the summer and still have power left. It is amazing how long they last when you are used to nicads. Just get another set at the store and put them in your car for spares. Should last all year with two sets. If you don't want the AM, email me with a price.

aeajr

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ec121

Thanks for the information.

While I understand FM radios are supposed to be less subject to interference, I have nothing against AM radios. However I have a 7 channel Hitec Prism 7X computer radio, so I really don't need the AM radio.

Good to know they work well. They do seem to be mostly sold to the glider market, though I have seen some bundled with low end RTF electrics.

If I go this way I will e-mail you with a price. Thanks!

aeajr

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I just ordered the Spirit Select RTF glider with the AM radio.

I am so excited I just can't wait till it gets here.

Now I need to get a hi-start

ec121

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I see your point with the Prism. I have two Flash 5Xs that will hold 5 apiece. But by the time I buy a flight pack it is cheaper to buy the whole radio for $65 or so. Just have to watch which Xmtr you pick up. Easy to get the wrong one. I also bought one of the Neon radios from Hitec. I don't see their point in adding all the features to what is going to stay a 3 channel radio. The fourth channel is only good for a knob on the case. Better to buy a regular radio. By the time you buy all the add-ons you will have the price Flash 5X.

aeajr

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For those who might be interested, this link goes to a great thread on RC/Groups about enabling the spoilers on the Spirt. Also, some great photos on how to mount servos in the wings as an option.

Discussion on Spirit spoilers and using wing servos

aeajr

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Received the Spirit Select with the AM radio. Haven't decided whether to keep it or sell it. My leaning is to keep it as a back-up. However I will keep your offer in mind.