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157" Discus Glider

Old 05-26-2006, 08:55 PM
  #201  
gehr2box
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Heard a loud truck outside this evening. You all know the sound. It's that summertime Santa sleigh! There was a knock on the door and what should appear, but a 5'10" guy in brown holding a 6'2" box.

Yep, I've joined the 4m discus club and am happy to report that the quality of the kit is pretty good considering the size and construction materials involved. About the only imperfection I found on mine is a small 3/8" diameter dent on the bottom of the fuselage a few inches behind the wing trailing edge. Not a big deal for the price I paid on ebay ($142 + shipping). Saw a couple go for under $110 last week...lucky dogs.

Don't know what some folks expect for thickness on a canopy, but it seems about as thick as any kit I have purchased in the past. Could just be the size that makes it seem thin to some. Ditto for the fuselage. It's pretty stiff and seems more then up to the task.

Maybe I'm sick in the head, but I love the smell of fresh fiberglass resin, almost as much as the smell you get when you pull the wrapper off of a new roll of Monocote. Couldn't help but stick my nose in the fuselage.

The spoilers appear to slide in and out easily. Wings look about as straight as I can make them. The hardware seems to be the same as you get in any other ARF with the exception of the rudder cable. Looks like it came of the hand brake of a bicycle. I'll chuck it and use gold-n-rod instead. I was surprised to find the Robart hinges for the rudder, way better then most hinges in kits.

Covering quality is OK, but I have seen a little better on ARF's (for a lot more money though). But it's better then I usually do. Decals that came with it are OK, but I doubt I will use any of them. The instruction sheet is good for the bottom of a bird cage and that's about it. Not a big deal since there's really not much to assemble.

My plan is to electrify it with an AXI 4120/18, 5s2p 4000mah LI-PO, Jeti 70 Opto ESC and a Graupner 14x9 folding prop. Not looking to make a hotliner or warmliner. Just want it to be able to climb to 500 or so feet in under a couple minutes a few times on a charge.

I guess I'll add a landing gear wheel, re-enforce the cockpit area with glass and add a trim job to the bottom of the wings to make it look like a bird from the ground (probably will turn out more like a skinny Christen Eagle color scheme).

Just love looking at that sexy glass fuselage leaning against the wall. It's gonna be a bummer to snip the nose for the motor.

If I come up with anything different during the build then anybody else has already posted I'll plunk it down here for ya'wl's amusement.

Bud
Old 05-26-2006, 11:21 PM
  #202  
slopeguy
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Big Oakden,
I did not use the original rod exit for the rudder. I wanted more throw to the rudder than what you can get with the arrangement that they included in the kit. I notched out the rudder and fabricated my own horn to operate the rudder. I recessed the horn into the rudder so that the centerline of the rod was as close to the center line of the rudder. By doing this I get a lot more rudder movement. I had to exit the push rod straight out the back of the fuse to get it to work correctly. I just filled the original push rod exit hole with epoxy and ballons to hide it.
ORIGINAL: Big Oakden

HELP
Question for everyone who used the exit point for the rudder:

When I am going to mount the control horn at the Centerline of the hinge, there is not enough room to make a right turn without the solder connection hitting the exit point.

How/where did you mount the control horn and what type of connector did you use?

I was thinking about reversing the whole line and using the Clevis on the inside and a clamp on the outside at the control horn....

Any Suggestions?

I already have the Rudder servo in the canopy section of the plane with the supplied tube and wire pushrod installed. (wire pushrod does not have a connector on both ends (yet).

I will post some pics tonight on the wing holder magnets and my canopy mount system (magnets)
(the website was down last night)
Old 06-04-2006, 04:24 PM
  #203  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

OK everyone,

SOMEONE other than Tom, has to have flown....
Where's those reports?
Where's the finish photos?
I know that I will be posting mine tonight or tomorrow, with the full set up installed, and the cooling vents installed.(just as soon as I install them. this afternoon).

I hear that Central Arizona Soarling League got a new field out in Avondale with full grass everywhere...
So know I know where I will be flying mine after the maiden voyage next weekend.
We also hope to post some video of the flights too.
Old 06-09-2006, 08:41 PM
  #204  
gehr2box
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Anyone with this plane have one wing rod hole higher/lower then the other in the fuselage? I'm talking about the hole where the orange/red rubber bushing is inserted.

My right one is 1.5mm closer to the top of the wing fillet then the other. My kit was also lacking the rubber bushings that the 10mm rod slides through. 1.5mm isn't much at the root, but the difference measured at the tip 6' away is significant. Without the bushings the 10mm rod floats around in the hole.

I solved the problem by wrapping and taping the 10mm rod with paper to keep glue from sticking to it. Inserted it in the fuselage. I measured and shimmed the rod with small pieces of scrap balsa on both sides until the rod was 66mm from the lead edge of the fillet and 6mm from the top. I then filled the open space around the shims with 5 minute epoxy to make the adjustment permanent. The rod is a snug fit now, centered in the wing fillets and I don't need the bushings.

I'm going to power it with an AXI 4120/18 using a Jeti Opto 70 ESC and 6s2p LIPO battery. Already removed the stock servo tray assy and bulkheads, reinforced the nose to wing root area with 6oz FG, installed a landing gear wheel, clipped the nose and installed a firewall.

Any prop recommendations out there for this combo? This is my first electric. I looked at Hobby Lobby for info. They give an example setup of a 13x8 prop with the power system I am planning on using. [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi4120.htm]Hobby Lobby 4120[/link]


Bud

Old 06-09-2006, 11:00 PM
  #205  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

OK all, tomorrow is the BIG DAY,

We are going to maiden the big bird.....

Ended up changing to a Castle Creations 110HV ESC (7 cells is too many cells for the Mototron 90.)

Will post some finished pics, and video tomorrow (if all goes well)
Old 06-09-2006, 11:03 PM
  #206  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Bud,

mine did not have the bushings either... My tubes were not crooked however, and everything lined up perfectly, (with the exception of the pivot in the tail....

Got to run, and tdo the final things for the flight tomorrow!

Dave
Old 06-10-2006, 07:10 PM
  #207  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Well,

It STARTED up to be a nice day!.....

Got her all assembled, ran up the motor to full power (on the ground) to make sure the firewall would hold....I could have cooled the desert with the wind tunnel I created....
On with the wings !
Verify CG Point (nose goes over - GOOD!)
Verify surface movements.
Lock down the Canopy......
RANGE TEST !!!!
Looking Good !

OK, get a running start and give her a toss as I go to full power.

Just as he goes to throw ----POOF !!! ESC shut down, no warning, no recovery, nuthin !!!
Alright, who's got another ESC ? (nobody answers but the crickets)

Soooooo,
put her away for the week, and order another ESC on Monday (RATS!!!)

So the Saga will continue next week, same Bat Time (0530) same bat location (AMPS)

Until then, Purveyers of the Air, Take care, and may all your landings be smooth.

Dave
Old 06-10-2006, 11:38 PM
  #208  
soarrich
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Bummer, I was hoping to hear a good flight report. Mine's setup for aero towing, but I haven't got the tow plane together yet, and I worry about someone else flying my tow plane, so I'm seriously thinking of putting a electric motor in it, even bought one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1
I know it seems a little small, but it turns a 13x8, and this is a sailplane, which should fly with NOmotor. If it will pull the plane up 100 feet a minute that's OK.


Funny(?) aerotow story.

The first aerotow I ever saw was Robin Lehman, who use to import the scale ship before John Derstien(SP?), towed John up flying one of Robin's big scale ships with a HUGH Wilga scale glider tug, about a $4000 model, which he also imported. After the tow up Robin is saying his ailerons feel funny, I'm watching the Wilga and am thinking that's not the way I would be treating a new $4000 model, he's diving at the ground wiggling his wings, I looked over at Robin, I almost fainted, he's got his back to me and the Wilga, watching his scale sailplane, that Derstien is flying! I told him he's flying the wrong airplane and point to the Wilga which is vertical at about 100 mph at about 100 feet, about two seconds later we heard a $4000 thump!

Moral of the story, maybe you shouldn't own the sailplane and the tow plane!
Old 06-12-2006, 08:17 AM
  #209  
BobtheNuke
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Dave,

Sorry to her things didn't work out. I was meaning to find out when/what time the maiden would be but work took over my life again. Did you find out what caused the problem with your controller? Not to change the subject, but having spent more on these things than I care to admit to I'm keeping an unofficial log of controllers by make and model that fail for no apparent reasons.

Please let me know what you find out and when the next try will be.

bob
Old 06-12-2006, 02:29 PM
  #210  
Justin-san
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

I have flowen one!
I bought it from a guy who got it on ebay. He was not too excited about the quality and did not want to spend a lot of time on it. I did. It flies very nice another guy at my site has one too and his also flies very nice. It is not a aerobatic ship but it does thermal well and handles smooth and easy. DO NOT LET IT GET TOO SLOW IT WILL TIP STALL!! I did this 2 times but I had some altitude and recorvered. We aerotow them up. I did a bit of work on mine, the elevator is up on a wedge to get it high enough to have enough throw, I pulled out the servo tray and reenforced the floor and sides with carbon/kevlar, then put it back in. I put in a fixed landing wheel and a little wheel in the tail, The wing rod strut in the fuse was loose, I redid that, the rudder attach point in the fuse is kind of funky, I rebuilt that. All the glue they used is junk. It takes a lot of lead in the nose over 1 lb. Total weight is about 9 lbs.
Old 06-12-2006, 03:04 PM
  #211  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

we will try again next saturday (6/17) provided we get in the ESC's
(we're going to use MGM's version this time as our supplier for the Castle Creation 110 for both my plane and another friend of mine never shipped, and they won't answer their phones (NOT, repeat NOT Vision Hobbies, but another supplier, whom we were getting our ESC's From )

So Hopefully, if they get here in time, we will fly saturday morning, again at 0600.

Soarrich:
how are you going to launch a 11lb glider with a motor for a 7lb aircraft?
Unless you use one of the carts previously shown in this thread, I dont think you will have the power to handlaunch it from ground level.

If you are launching from a hill with that motor, you might get a good running start with the downhill toss, and power it up for climbing.

Personally, I would want a Power to Weight Ration of 1:1 or better not 2/3:1 or 1/2:1
We will post the Watts/Amps draw later this week for our set up. (must first build cables to accept the 200amp connectors for our whatt meters) I don't remember what we calculated,
but it should be about 1500-1800 watts.

Dave
Old 06-13-2006, 08:00 AM
  #212  
soarrich
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

ORIGINAL: Big Oakden

Soarrich:
how are you going to launch a 11lb glider with a motor for a 7lb aircraft?
Unless you use one of the carts previously shown in this thread, I dont think you will have the power to handlaunch it from ground level.
Dave
I thought I would just throw it. I've just thrown 11 pound & 13 pound sailplanes to test glide them and that worked ok. I thought anything that could turn a 13x8 prop would pull this pretty well, I have 14 2300 mah cells for batteries, so that 16 volts and it can pull 55 amps isn't that 880 watts? I'm not looking for a 60* climb, a 10* climb would be fine with me.

Can anyone tell how much difference the power will be between my motor and a AXI 4120/18? The AXI 4120/18 seems to be a little bigger, but not that much.
Old 06-13-2006, 02:39 PM
  #213  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Rich:

How quick are you on the sticks from throwing to the Elevator?
I know that with my Ellipsoid, and my Siren the first time I threw it, I almost buried it trying to get my hands back on the stick to give it up (had no idea how much it needed at low speed) until I upped the power to the (Ellipsoid) 60Amp ESC and 2480LiPo Battery pack. The Siren was powerfuil enough with a 11.1v but now has 14.8v [8D]

After We Upped the power, it took off at 1/2 throttle, and I punched it after it cleared the runway. Zero to 400 ft under 5 seconds (755 watts).

If I have trouble launching this bird after the first two flights, I will build one of the carts shown above, but with the following modification:

Steerable nose wheel, servo, receiver, and batterypack so it is steerable while on the ground. I wont need no stinkin power on it as the power from the prop should carry it beyond the end of the runway and into the desert. It will just make for a long walk after flying the big glider and bringing her home.

I'm thinking I will make one other addition to this:

Small micro switch, that when the plane leaves the cradle, the battery turns off for the servo / receiver on the cart, thus allowing me to use multiple times without draining the batteries on the ground while flying. what do yo think?
Old 06-13-2006, 06:44 PM
  #214  
soarrich
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

I guess it would be best to have a helper throw it, but many times have I told a helper, throw it right to the horizon, not up, and had them then throw the plane at a 30* angle up.[:@]
Old 06-16-2006, 11:54 AM
  #215  
Airbike
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Hi all, I will be joining you guys with my impulsive buy while at the Raidentech warehouse this week. I was not planning on getting anything, just went there with a flying buddy so he could get some planes.

Anyways, got a great deal and I'm trying to see what to do about fitting an electric motor in the nose. I might fly it at the local slope for a while first.


Tom in Cincy, does the Aveox F12 LMR motor that you are using have a gear box? I happen to live about 10 minutes away from SoaringUSA.com and he has some older Aveox motors that I can get at a good price.

I want to have enough power for hand launching so I'm thinking of something to spin a 17x9 prop. I don't need climbs like my hotliner, just solid launches.

Thanks for the info on this thread, it'll be very helpful as I start the build.

Dan
Old 06-16-2006, 07:28 PM
  #216  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Well All,

Neither the Castle Creations or the MGM's showed up in time. So we have some Hurricane 100amp ESC's coming that will be here on Monday.(so they say)

We have had no luck in getting the Esc's from CC or MGM in a timely manner, but Hurricane has promised that they weill be here by Monday.

Sooooo, Monday night I will re-balance the Glider with the Hurricane ESC on Board, and do some run up tests prior to taking her to Denver later next week for the Electric Fly in in Golden or Boulder (can't for the life of me remember which one it is)

Sorry for the delay in reporting what should be a very fun and great flight. But until I can control the energy from the batteries to the motor, I ain't flyin !

Dave
Old 06-16-2006, 08:15 PM
  #217  
B777
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Hi guys,

I am flying jets but just got interested in glider. I just bought the Discus and planning on putting a motor up-front. Since the Discus will need a lot of weight in the nose, I am planning on using the Graupner 700 Turbo with 12x8 floding prop and 2 x 8-cells 3700mAh MHi. I noticed that the nose area will need some reinforcement to take the motor. Any suggestion with the intended set-up?

Thanks,
Kraivuth S.
Old 06-17-2006, 12:24 AM
  #218  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

B777:

What kind of thrust/watts will your motor be generating?
As you can see on page 8 I used a rather "small" outrunner to power up this bird.

I am a firm believer in throttle management. (i.e. it's nice to have the power there when you need it, and just lower it when you don't) .

I thought very heavily on the PJS3000 for this plane, but wanted to insure that I would have the thrust I wanted to be able to hand launch it.

If I had commited to using a "cart" (as previously shown on this thread) I may have gone with the pjs3000 as it will reverse mount similar to an AXI. Thus giving me the more familiar flat nose mount.

having the big Lipo's in the nose, I am probably going to move the receiver battery to the rear of the aircraft so as to lighten up the nose.

I will try it just slightly behind the CG before moving it further aft. My motor selection along with the 2700mah Lipos weighs in at just about 2.4 pounds, about what some have put in the nose. (Yes i need to move it back as after further investigation on saturday, I was about 2-1/2" forward of the "scheduled CG Point of 78mm behind the leading edge).

On beefing up the nose:

I think everyone will agree that the whole compartment needs to be beefed up. Several have laid CF sheeting down. Others (like me) who did NOT have any CF, used FG to reinforce the nose area.

I strengthened the entire "canopy" area starting just forward of the wing mounts to the firewall that I installed and then beyond that to insure that the firewall would not rip out. I put several "formers" that move to the rear from the firewall to give it some longitudinal strength for the torque of the motor.
Old 06-17-2006, 06:44 AM
  #219  
gehr2box
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

2 1/2" forward of the scheduled CG?!?

As far as re-enforcement of the nose. I removed the stock servo mounts and bulkheads. I cut a hole for a landing gear wheel. I clipped the nose off far enough to give me a 2" diameter area for a 1/8" plywood firewall, then glassed the entire nose from just in front of the wing area to the firewall with 6oz cloth. I added four 1" wide 6oz fiberglass strips from the behind the canopy, along the canopy mounting edge to the firewall. I installed a mounting box for the landing gear wheel made from 1/8" ply and added bulkheads in front of and behind it to add support from the sides of the fuselage. I added four 1" wide 6oz fiberglass strips down the center line from the firewall to the wheel well and then behind it to below the wing tube to re-enforce the bottom of the fuselage. I also glassed the bulkheads and wheel well to the inside of the fuselage.

Keep in mind I have not installed the motor yet or flown it. The nose is significantly stiffer and I feel like the landing gear/belly has adequate support now.
Old 06-18-2006, 01:21 AM
  #220  
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Hey guys, I just won one of these on eBay. I've read through this thread and am encouraged by the reports. Should be a fun project. I'm planning on electrifying mine and maybe installing a retractable main wheel. Looking forward to getting the kit!
Old 06-18-2006, 10:44 AM
  #221  
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

I picked up one of these about 3 weeks ago, my brother got the 103". I just ordered up the servos, but as I go through the kit, the instructions are useless, don't think I really need them, but will one of you guys that has the color instructions, please email me a set that you scaned in to the computer, I would greatly appreciate it. One other thing that I have notice, I don't have the red "O"-rings that go on the wing rod. I decided to purchase this after seeing one fly at one of the local slopes and was quite impressed with what I saw for a $200 ARF. Thanks in advance, it has been great reading al the threads you guys have put up here and the mods that you guys have made.

Mo
Old 06-18-2006, 12:47 PM
  #222  
SlopeFlyer33
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

There are color instructions for the 4M Discus here:
[link=http://www.amdhobby.com/images/discus.jpeg]4M Discus Instructions[/link]


Also, my kit didn't have red O rings - just thin pieces
of cut-off black rubber hose.

Bruce
Old 06-18-2006, 07:43 PM
  #223  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Gehr2box:

The leading edge of the wing was as close as I could get for the CG point on the plane. It almost balanced at that point.

But, now I have moved the battery pack to the rudder (through the hatch) and did not have to modify anything. (6v 1800mah Nimh) couldn't believe that it actually fit. I almost went down to the local Batteries Plus and had a custom pack made ($30.00 plus you proivde the connector).

Moving that 4oz to the rear of the plane should suffice to re-equalize my balance on the plane.

We will be in Boulder next weekend to fly her there, at the electric fly in.

If you go, look for the Vision Hobbies Booth, I'll be there helping Rich/Jerry.

Dave
Old 06-18-2006, 09:17 PM
  #224  
gehr2box
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Dave,
Thanks for the update. I'll not be able to get to Bolder. Hope all goes well there for you.

Do you think your ESC failure was excessive ampere draw or a defective ESC?

Bud
Old 06-19-2006, 08:06 AM
  #225  
Big Oakden
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Default RE: 157" Discus Glider

Bud:
Defective ESC.

We ran it up to full power on the bench to test it prior to launch.

As I ran it up to full power on the flight line at about 3/4 throttle there was an audible POP, and then nothing.

All cables were fully isolated, and there is no metal for it to short to in the nose of the aircraft.

What is so perplexing is that it worked fine just 10 minutes earlier.

Once we got it back to the shop we copnnected it to the computer, and nothing. No reading, no continuity, nuthin.

Our AMP Draw was to be in the 90-100amp range at full throttle. The Castle Creations 110HV should have handled that no problem.

WHEN, we get one of our whatt meters adapted with the 200amp connnectors I will have a better Idea of AMP Draw and watts produced.

Batteries are Poly RC 3700mah LIpo (1-3s, 1-4s) with a 20C Constant and 30C momentary draw (up to 30 seconds). There is no way that 5 seconds at 3/4 power fried it. Especially aftre running it at full power for 20 seconds on the bench.

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