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Building a 3m PARAGON

Old 10-02-2006, 03:29 AM
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mamak
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Default Building a 3m PARAGON

Hi,

I bought a 3m Paragon glider kit a few years back and intended to build it. I am an experience flyer and builder with more then 10 years of rc flying. Eventhough I have other rc flying background with me, I have never flown of build gliders before. I’m planning on using brushless motor for the glider. Before I started building I would like to clear certain things:

1) Do I go ‘full house’ (Rudder/Elevator/Ailerons) on the kit or do you guys have any ideas?
2) Do I need the flaps/spoilers etc?
3) What type of brushless (kv?) do I go for and is a 3 cell lipo be sufficient enough?
4) Types of servo to use on each channel ie: standard/mini/micro?
5) What type of covering to use and is monocote good enough?

Thanks guys.
Old 10-02-2006, 08:52 AM
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soarrich
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

ORIGINAL: mamak

1) Do I go ‘full house’ (Rudder/Elevator/Ailerons) on the kit or do you guys have any ideas?
No, this is a rudder, elevator sailplane.

ORIGINAL: mamak

2) Do I need the flaps/spoilers etc?
You want/need spoilers.

ORIGINAL: mamak

3) What type of brushless (kv?) do I go for and is a 3 cell lipo be sufficient enough?
I'll let some one else answer this.

ORIGINAL: mamak

4) Types of servo to use on each channel ie: standard/mini/micro?
It's a big boxy fuse, the plane flies slow, not much load on the servos, it's a poly sailplane so speed and accuracy is not critical = standard servos, maybe HS-55s on each servo blade if you don't want to use strings to activate them.

ORIGINAL: mamak

5) What type of covering to use and is monocote good enough?
Use MonoKote, the wing needs the strength of it.

Fill the wing center joiner's void with vertical balsa, wrap the wing boxes with light fishing line. Don't worry about the weight, when I went for my 8 hour slope flight I had 4 D cells in it, I liked the way it flew so much I flew it with them from then on, these '70s sailplanes have plenty of lift.
Old 10-03-2006, 12:41 AM
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mamak
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON


Hi soarrich,

Thanks for the informative reply. Still wondering what brushless to use for my Paragon glider? Hope you glider guys can help me. Thanks.
Old 10-03-2006, 08:02 AM
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soarrich
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

Since no-one has stepped up....

I just sold my Paragon kit, (too many planes and kits, and I'm basically a scratch-builder, I modify everything), but I bought the 45/3 for my Paragon. I really think you can use the 30/3, it will just go up a little slower, which in my opinion is a good thing, it gives you time to search out lift.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless...eti.htm#JEP303

The out runner motors swing a bigger prop, but these will fit in the nose of a Paragon nicely.
Old 10-04-2006, 04:34 AM
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mamak
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON


Fill the wing center joiner's void with vertical balsa, wrap the wing boxes with light fishing line.
Soarrich, can you please explain in details or if you have any pictures of the modification you mentioned[8D] Thanks.
Old 10-04-2006, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

I don't think cameras where invented last time I built a Paragon, , so no pictures.

If I remember correctly the center wing joiner is a piece of spruce about a 1/2 inch wide, 12 inches long, and the bottom is cut to give you your main panel dihedral. The center of the wing the joiner is full depth, i.e. from the top spar to the bottom spar, but where the joiner ends, about 3 ribs out, it is only about half way up to the top spar, fill this area with vertical grain balsa, so the top spar can't buckle and collapse in.

The wing tips are held on with vertical ply wing blades glued into the tips, and sliding into joiner boxes in the main panel. Under load the wing blade trys to pull the top spar up and push the bottom spar down. It was common practice to wrap light line around the ends of each box to keep them from opening, everyone did it, so I did it too, I didn't want to be they guy that blew off his tips because he forgot to do it. Check out the Bubble Dancer sailplane threads, they do the whole spars, but it's not need on a Paragon, a Paragon's wing will fail at a tenth the load of a Bubble Dancer normal launch, and your's being electric will have less load on the wings that a standard Paragon sailplane, but I'd still wrap the boxes, it takes five minutes and cost almost nothing. Keep the wing tips light!

You can do lots of mods to a Paragon, I've never seen a bad flying one. I made one of mine a full flying stab on a T tail with Philph's entry and D tubed wing, it flew great, but so did my stock one, just a little different. The one mod that was really popular was to make the stab elevator into full flying stab, same shape, using the stock kits wood, you just needed two pieces of 1/8 inch x 4 inch wire for the pivot and one for the drive, some brass tubing for them to slide into. The vertical fin just had a little wood added to it at the bottom so you could put a piece of the brass tubing to act as a bushing, and a small slot for the drive wire to move up and down in, mount your elevator control horn near the pivot point and you've got your removable full flying stab, it flew the same, but was easier to transport.
Old 10-04-2006, 04:11 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

What type of covering and is monocote good enough?
Monokote is good enough, but Ultracote is better. And it's easier to use. And it's stronger. And it shrinks better and easier. And it adheres to the wood better.
Old 10-04-2006, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

MonoKote imparts torsional strength, Ultracote(Oracote) does NOT, read Bubble Dancer threads.

I love Ultracoat, but it's not as good as Monokote when covering open bays sailplane wings.
Old 10-05-2006, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

MonoKote imparts torsional strength, Ultracote(Oracote) does NOT,
I'm sure his posts are informative, but I gotta disagree based on my own experience.

The Ultracote I've used has appeared to provide torsional rigidity everywhere that could be observed.

A friend and I just recovered a big old Four Star 120 wing that was constantly warping. We did it for a number of reasons. It had been originally built from a kit and covered with Monokote. We would iron out the warp and it'd come back after awhile. It was obvious that the structure wanted to twist and the Monokote wasn't strong enough or enduring enough to hold the twist out.

We recovered the entire wing with Ultracote and haven't seen the warp since. It would be torsional rigidity that is holding that warp at bay. Ignore what was on it originally. Ultracote is on it now and is strong enough to hold it's shape.

If you cut Ultracote with anything other than a sharp knife or sharp scissors you'll see what looks like threads in it. They're obviously some kind of flexible plastic threads, but they're there nonetheless. They seem to be a very wide weave and are arranged much like rebar reinforcing in concrete structures. Actually, it's more like the wire screen that reinforces some poured concrete. Yeah, I know wire and iron rebar don't shrink with heat, but the analogy is exactly what I'm trying for. It appears that the stuff in the Ultracote is actually tougher than the Ultracote and certainly tougher than Monocote (which has nothing in it similar). And my guess is the toughness remains after application.

But the idea is interesting so I've set up an experiment.
Old 10-05-2006, 08:04 AM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

First off, I tried to tear some scrap Ultracote with my bare hands. If it ain't got something that resists pulling out of shape, then I almost bruised my hands on some property or other. Got no idea what to call it.

Then I pinned a long strip to a tall cabinet. The pins hold it at the top and it's free hanging from there down. I marked the strip and the cabinet leg (I built it out of scrap wood so it won't matter to anyone but me that there are marks on it.) and hung a weight on the bottom.

Time will tell.
Old 10-05-2006, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

BTW, it just dawned on me that I have not observed those little wispy thingies on clear Ultracote. I've never used the clear for any open structures so never had the opportunity to see how it holds it's dimensions. Think I'll cut a strip of it and hang it out to dry.... uhhh.... hang it up to test.

I wonder if Ultracote has changed over time to include something that'd give it more dimension-holding strength. Like, after there was some criticism of it not having any.... I've only been using it for a few years and wasn't modeling when it came out. hhmmmm..... when did it come out?

anyway.... gotta go setup that other test
Old 10-05-2006, 08:52 AM
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kevin mcgrath
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

Hey Soarich..........what battery and prop are you using with the hobby lobby motor/controller combo you mentioned.
Your opinion on climb angle and duration would be valuable.
Im powering a new three metre too and need to know.
Thanks
Old 10-05-2006, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

Kevin

I haven't put it in a sailplane yet, like I wrote before I sold my Paragon kit that I got it for. I'm no expert on electrics, my knowledge of electrics is that if you keep the smoke inside the parts they work, when the smoke leaks out they stop working.

I build a sailplane and was so impressed with it I thought I'd build one like it, but electric, so now I've started a 4 meter sailplane using a 450 Algin motor from a Raptor heli, I'd like the whole thing to weigh about 40oz.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535065

darock

You might want to look at this, the Mirage was ahead of it's time, it really needed a better airfoil and CF, the Bubble Dancer is basically a Hi Tech Mirage, BTW Mark Drela is PHD At MIT.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555365

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Old 10-29-2009, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

could someone put up a thread for electric mod on a regular sailplane? thanks, PM me
Old 10-29-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default RE: Building a 3m PARAGON

I had a Paragon, way back. It was my first big glider, It also gave me my first one hr ride. I love them, glad to hear of another one coming to life, you will love it too. Stay R.E.S. the spoilers only need to be 3 bays wide on each side of the center sheeting. Bow in an area for a length of 1/4 X 1 1/4 trailing edge stock. Now it is just as easy to activate them by seperate servo's. I suggest HS 82 metal gear. some may think it is overkill, no only $3 each over HS 81's and you will never have to fuss with them. Elevator, and Rudder can be full size servo's, anything 40oz'ish. I have, and would most likely use HS225BB, at 50+ oz. But deffinatly not needed, and will look embarasingly small in that big wide fuse. Don't be concerned about weight, in time you will be looking for Ballast blocks. Which reminds me, run your pushrods out wide along the fuse sides so you can build a ballast box. Or you may carry your batteries there.
As for power, look at 350watt set-ups on 3cell. If you happen to go 4S, keep the RPM/Volt low. The reason, I try to keep a folding prop to a max of 10,000rpm. For efficiency a deep pitch prop around 7-8000rpm. Starting prop, say 13 X 10. ESC 40 amp, even a 60amp would keep you happy for a long time. Must have braking option, and soft start. Do use soft start, your folding blades will last a lot longer. I know what happens when a blade fails, followed by a brocken motor mount.
There will be lots of other options, and opinions, but that is mine. Enjoy your Paragon. I seen my old one this past summer. By buddy, let the farm cats get in the shed where he kept it after I gave it to him. It kind of hurt, knowing all the joy that those cat robbed him of.
-Snuts-

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