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Ailerons or not??

Old 08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
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Popriv
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Default Ailerons or not??

I'm training on a glow plane with an instructor now. Almost ready to solo.
I have sand pits near my house that would allow me to get out and fly more often.
I'm looking at an electric glider that I could use at this site. Glow is not an option here.
Hand launch, power up to altitude and soar a bit, Landings in the sand might roughen up the bottom but I thought I could deal with that.

Mutiplex easy glider - ailerons, good but it comes with a brushless motor. is that a deal killer?

Aspire - comes with a brushed moter but it doesnt have ailerons.

I flew 3 channel gliders 15 years ago and I'm thinking I will prefer having the ailerons.

Whats more important? the brushed motor in the aspire or the ailerons in the Multiplex?

Any other options in this price range?


Thanks for any info..

Steve
Old 08-13-2008, 03:01 PM
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fabmaster911
 
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Brushless is superior than brushed. More power better efficiency.
Old 08-13-2008, 03:07 PM
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sawdust
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Neither the Aspire nor the Easy Glider Electric fly all that well with their stock brushed motors.

I have flown both planes. The stock set up on the Aspire is just plain terrible. The stock set up on the EGE is better.

I have flown both with brush less motors and that makes each a great sailplane. I like flying my EGE with the brush less and ailerons better than the Aspire.

Look at the Easy Glider Pro. All you get with it is a plane. But she is set to handle many brushless motors. The one recommended by Multiplex gets great reviews.

If you are going the Aspire route I recommend buying the parts for the Aspire EP and put them together. And put a brushless motor on it.

What is your budget?

Todd

Old 08-13-2008, 05:43 PM
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Popriv
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Budget is around $250 - $300

Minus $70 for a AR6200 spektrum reciever. ( I have a DX6i )

So $230ish for everything else.

If I want Ailerons I have to rule out the aspire? can they be added?

I learned on a gentile lady and I still have a sigatta 600 sailplane. I'll eventually get the sigatta going again. I dont have a good local place to get it up in the air, Thats why I want the electric.

I've never flown an electric but I dont want to spend money on the brushed motor If the performance is going to be so bad I have to replace it.
Am I correct that I would have to replace the ESC ?? to handle a brushed motor.

This plane will be for flying in the sand pit behind my house.

I'm open to any suggestions?

Eventually I would like to try slope soaring...In the FMS sim I like to crank the wind up and try thr different planes with no power using the wind for lift.


TIA

steve
Old 08-13-2008, 05:52 PM
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Popriv
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Sorry, I ment Ascent electric glider NOT the aspire.

So I'm comparing the muliplex easyglider against the Ascent.


Steve
Old 08-13-2008, 05:59 PM
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colmo-RCU
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

ESCs are different for brushed and brushless motors. I would do anything I can to land someplace without sand, not for the scraping but for the sand getting in the motor, gear, servos, etc. It´l shorten your gears life a lot, and may damage the motor instantly. Try not to modify the plane, ailerons are not that straight forward to calculate so let the designers do it for you
Old 08-13-2008, 06:12 PM
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Popriv
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Good point about the sand.
I'm going to check the site out again, I believe there is an area of grass?

Will the electric come down that fast? I remember my gentile lady used to float in and drop like a feather.
I know the electric will be heavier.

thanks

steve
Old 08-13-2008, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Modern brushless electrics with Lipo packs do not need to be much, if any, heavier than a pure soaring Gentle Lady. Given that these old GL's all needed at least a little ballast along with a full 4oz AA nicad pack to balance there's no reason why and electric version needs to be more than a couple or three ounces heavier. A weight and flying difference that most pilots won't notice.

Getting back to the rudder vs ailerons. Go rudder and elevator. In use the polyhedral and rudder works just like ailerons with rudder coupled. But mostly it acts like ailerons. The rudder yaws the model and then the dihedral reacts to the yaw by producing a strong rolling force. A force that is far stronger than the yaw that induced it. This works so well that if you flip the glider over to inverted your rudder in conjunction with the polyhedral works just like ailerons to hold the model inverted. Mind you the dihedral makes it a bit unstable when inverted so you need to jog the stick a lot much like balancing a broom handle end on in your palm.
Old 08-14-2008, 07:01 AM
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rscarawa
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

I actually prefer the way my Spirit 2m flies with the extra weigt of the motor. Everyone talks about being how light weight their model is. For most built up sailplanes, low weight is over rated. When my Spirit was a pure sailplane it weighted about 34 oz. When conditions were very calm it flew well. When there was a 5-8mph wind, it was more difficult to fly and running between thermals costed alot of altitude. Now it weighs about 41 oz with batteries and brushless motor. Its stall speed is higher but it also penetrates wind much better. Flying in 8-10mph wind is not too big a deal. When I am inbetween thermals, the cuising speed is such that I can spend less time between thermals. I suspect that stall, min sink, and cruising speed increased about 20 to 25%.

The only downsides I can see with the extra weight is that it will not turn as tight a circle as it would when it was lighter and stall recovery takes slightly longer. I got used to dealing with that after about 30 minutes of flying it at the higher weight. I also reduced the elevator movement to reduce the possiblility of unintentionally stalling.
Old 08-14-2008, 08:29 AM
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

The new Multiplex Easylgider Pro is set up for brushed only. I would recommend the Easyglider since it is made of Elapor foam and extremely durable. Furthermore, it thermals really well, and if you are flying at a slope requires little wind (over 5mph) to float. It has ailerons, and goes to together quickly!
Old 08-14-2008, 01:12 PM
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spiral_72
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

It sounds like you got some good suggestions already.

Just make sure the sand lot is large enough to set down a sailplane (at least initially). They fly slow, but they also glide forever. I don't know how good a pilot you are, but you CAN land a sailplane in a tight area, you just really have to crank in rudder and watch the stall speed. A guy could probably land a 2m sailplane on an acre without trees, you'd just have to bleed off altitude with your turns.

Best of luck. You might get yourself in trouble with a sailplane and forget about that messy old glow plane and follow the thermals!

P.S.
DLG's are pretty cool and aerobatic too. There's a launching "technique (SP?)" you'd have to learn though.
Old 08-14-2008, 01:48 PM
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SoarLA45
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

I would recommend you to get a small HLG that has ailerons and maybe spilers or flaps. I have a Fling (Much like the Great Planes kit) that y made myself, using the original fuselage as a positive mold, and have designed a wingset just for it. It is an elliptical wing a bit shorter than the normal wing and it has ailerons and pop up spoilers. Easy to fly, and a blast when theres lots of wind. If I were you I'd get the Fling DLG or HLG, it is a grea quality kit and is made of durable foam. The Fling 2M is also very easy to fly. I learned to fly with a Gentle Lady (I called her the Ugly Lady) with only rudder and elevator, and beleive me, you dont want to try to land that plane with lots of wind on a park full of bumps. When I built my Spirit Elite with ailerons and flaps, it was soooo much better. The plane was more aerobatic and it had inertia, which is something very desirable in a slope glider. Landings were a breeze, one of my tricks used to be to bring the glider VERY fast, so it would make a really cool whoooosh sound, then turn the plane around to face me, apply full CROW (BUTTERFLY mix). The plane would be going so slow that you could walk up beside it and catch it out of the air...!
Old 08-14-2008, 03:02 PM
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mike the snake
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

You can also modify a rudder/elevator plane by adding ailerons. I did this to a Wanderer, Gentle Lady, Spirit, and others.

I just flattened the polyhedral so the wing halves were flat (dihedral). I's easy to mount a servo in each wing and cut ailerons out of the TE.

With a good radio and separate aileron servos, you can do mixes that really help make the plane easy to fly, land.
Old 08-15-2008, 10:42 AM
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elmog
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

I'd go with the Easy Glider Pro. It's a great flying glider that falls well within your budget. I have the older Easy Glider and I actually prefer the Easy Glider with ailerons over my rudder/elevator only polyhedral ship. I feel that I have more control with the ailerons. Don't let the ailerons intimidate you. The aileron control will go on the right stick, just like your rudder is now. The rudder control will go on the left stick. Your DX6 has a mixing feature that will allow you to mix a little rudder in with the ailerons for nicely coordinated turns. You will really enjoy the Easy Glider and find it to be very durable and easy to repair with a little regular CA and kicker. The Easy Glider was my second Glider and I basically learned to fly with it. I got tired of repairing my lite-ply and balsa polyhedral ship.

PS- I agree that the Easy Glider is underpowered with the Brushed motor. That's why I would go with the "PRO" version as it has a firewall that is set up to make it easy to install a brushless moter. The brushed motor in the older Easy Glider will burn out rather quickly, too.
Old 08-16-2008, 08:50 AM
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Rick K
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Hello Steve, Here's my two cents worth. . . Ail's or Poly? I feel it really depends upon how you like to fly. Aileron planes are much more agile/precise and responsive in turns, nice for quickly reacting to wind or when finding a thermal vs. a poly ship which is slow to respond and sort of wallows arounds at slow speeds (as in landing). . .you have to plan well ahead and God forbid if you catch a gust of wind just prior to landing. . . But, a poly ship is MUCH, much more stable, that is to say you don't have to be constantly 'with it', a poly ship will generally fly hands off unless acted upon by a outside force be it wind, a theremal or you whereas a ail ship requires constant controll inputs to one degree or another depending on how 'sporty' the design.

I, myself am of the slow flying, floater type so I prefer a nice, very low wingloading (5-6oz) 2-3m poly plane. . . perfect for a nice morning playing 'ring around the thermal' with the local Redtail hawks found here. . .Ails would be of little use for my type of flying here in the semi desert of Inland So. CA. If you have a taste for 'hot dog' zooming around though you'd be more happy with a ail ship.

Sand huh? I'd be a little concerend about that, I too have VERY nice looking 1/2 X 1/2 mile vacant lot right across the street from my home and from my upstairs bedroom window I often watch the hawks thermaling for rabbits over there, It though is of desert sand and full of tumble weeds, rocks etc. . . But it is bisected with a aspalt road which is seldom used on the weekends. I have a old electric SR X440 and with pieces from my scrap balsa box, a 1" wheel and a couple of salvaged controll horns for wing skids modified the plane into a wheeled glider that I can land on that street (which, lucky runs n-s into the prevailing Morn. winds) without tearing up the plane. If you have some sort of hardish, hazzard free landing zone this might be a thought for you or perhaps some sort of central, just fwd of CG, skid and wing tip skids would be better for you.

Note: If landing in a confined space spoilers are something to seriously consider adding if you can (i.e. built up kit) or included in a ARF. They'll get the plane down in a hurry into a 'short' field.

Good luck,
Rick
Old 04-08-2010, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

if you purchase any planes go with the brushless set up its the only way i find ailerons far easier than rudder you can do far more manuvers
and landing are easier you can level the wings when landing i find it alot easier with ailerons but thats my preferance do what your confortable
with.
Old 04-09-2010, 02:37 AM
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Default RE: Ailerons or not??

Jmd, you gotta be careful when posting answers to threads you find using the Search feature. You just answered a two year old thread. I suspect he already decided on what to get quite a while back.

Ailerons on gliders have their place but they also have their weaknesses. For example it is much easier to fly a R-E model out near the limits of our vision where we are guiding a speck around the sky. This can be done with an aileron model but the pilot had better be VERY familiar with the model's response as he will be inputing controls based on faith and habit since he may not be able to see the effect all that well on the speck.

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