Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Here's a peek at my new winch I built over the last couple of months. I got frustrated that the EURO is so high compared to the dollar as this would make the cost of one of the European F3B winches about $2000. YIPE !! Sooooooo... I made my own! I never even took metal shop in High school but dove into the project whole hog and read every book on machining I could get my grubby hands on and here's my first attempt. It is built around the famous and popular Ford 3110 6 Volt starter motor and utilizes a Linemaster footpedal to activate the dual-selonoid current switch. I built in a dual LED indicator system to show if either selonoid welds shut and also threw on a voltmeter as well as a high Amp ON-OFF switch. The drum is removable with ONE 3/8" SS bolt without line removal for quick drum changeouts. It utilizes a one-way bearing for a brake and can be used with either monofilament line ( terriffic zoomies!!) or braided nylon (OK...). Drum diameters are 1.6" and 2". The disc ends are made to hold the ball bearings and dissipate heat at the same time. Estimated 5 HP at 5000 RPM static. I call it the "Discus winch" (imagine that!!!).

I will be testing it over the next month or so trying different drums, lines, etc... Let me know if you guys have any ideas or comments. Thanks! Tony

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

All I can say is.....beautiful. Well done and thought out. I will keep up with this thread and look forward to your test results. If all goes well maybe a retriever in the future?

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

No back lash brake? Boy are you in for a surprise!

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

As above, it is described with a one-way ball bearing for a "backlash brake". You must have been looking for a old v-belt or something. No belts on this one!

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

One way roller bearing. Has to be releaseable to pull the line out. Don't you have to limit the motor's torq to have a legal F3B winch?

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

I have a machined turn around if you are interested. I machine them myself. I have pictures if you e-mail me.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

A releasable pin is installed on the winch to provide quick release for retreival of the line and simply locks back in place with a 1/4 turn. I just have to remember to lock the clutch after each retreival before the next launch or ... no brake and a nasty birds nest will be sure to follow. The european winches are the same way. In the photos I do not show the lock pin and knob as I am still awaiting delivery of this one last item from the manufacturer. They are made from Stainless and were special ordered for this project.

I just received the same quick disconnects the europeans use to connect the battery to the power cables. They are made in Sweden and simply "snap" plastic capped clamps onto the battery posts. Two snaps and your connected or disconnected. Slick.

As far as the Kanthal resistor goes, I have not messed with it as of yet as I want to run the winch and make sure all else works properly first. Most of these are made from four 3mm pins set up in an array adjusted to make a specific torque output to the motor shaft. I don't really know how they figure torque certification but I will be digging around for this info soon. I'll dive into that a bit later. For now this is just a fun project I have wanted to do for a long time.

The turnaround is shown in the pictures also. It is a dual ball bearing phenolic pulley staked down with a SS aircraft cable "Y" harness. The body is 6061 Aluminum with stainless hardware.

I'll have more photos to post hopefully as soon as I get it out for testing this week or next week.

Thermals,

Tony

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

I've been looking at winches for a while. The only thing stopping me is the cost. How much would you say you have invested?

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Very nice work. Impressive, especially given your first machining effort. Congratulations. Post all the pictures you can. Cool.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

I just got back from my first test of the Discus winch and I am very pleased with it's performance. I made about 12 launches with no problems and I was suprised how quiet it was. The most noise made from the winch was the opening and closing of the solenoids. Zoom launches were SPECTACULAR !! The turnaround functioned flawless as well. I used 200 pound test braided nylon today and I will try the monofilament next week. The plane in the photos is my 120" Superhawk. I really wrung it out at the top of the launch apogee and put the pedal to the metal. Got a little too exciting and I backed off after about three seconds. The plane shot up like a slingshot another couple hundred feet and I was concerned about the amount of wing flex I was getting on the pull up so I took it easy after that.

It was such a success I am going to sell my NESP winch soon. I won't go back. This thing just kicks butt. PERIOD!

Someone asked how much I have into it. Well, like anything you build from scratch, the cost isn't so much in the materials as it is in the time. Materials I have a few hundred dollars but the time.... OY! I would have never made it if I had to rely on a local machine shop. Too much would have been invested. I have all the machines necessary to produce the winch and turnaround myself so that made it practical.

The pictures were taken today and one shows the one way bearing on the drum and the releasable stainless steel locking pin.

More later!!!

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

The winch and battery on the third second of being stalled must not have a lower resistance than 23 milliohms. You should be down to about 6 milliohms of resistance with about 3-4 times the expected power. In comparison to spec you have dynamite.

Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Thanks for the info Rick. I will look into the resitstor and see if I can get something working as soon as I figure out how to hook up the necessary ohm meter. Sounds like a multiple person job. Any suggestions would be helpful.

On another note, I set up the winch with Monofilament line today and tried it out with my Meuller Esprit. This line is STRETCHY !!! I used 200# test on this run and I know thats at the upper end but I didn't want to mess with broken line, etc. Lots of excess energy for a zoom launch and no birdnesting, knots, tangles.... I had a dozen or so flights and used my Rockhopper retreiver (bicycle) which made life a bit easier.

The photos below show the plane, winch, and flying field here in Mt. Vernon, Washington. There are two fields and this is the smaller of the two. The other one is just behind this one. You can see the two solenoid LED indicators glowing in the picture. Yes, they are that bright! If either one is out while I'm not pressing on the footswitch, I have a welded solenoid. Thermals today were light but very wide as they cycled through. Nothing like the sound of a moldie at the top of a zoom launch!

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

I reread the information again and discovered that the measurement is taken at the first third of a second : so that auto equipment is required thus avoiding the smoke created by that fantastic amount of amps. I hope the following is the correct reference.
http://home.clara.net/barcs/archive/winchjune01.htm
Rick

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Thanks for the link Rick, I read the roport and I can see that the F3B winches used for serious competition are using starter motors that are "smaller" (and alot more expensive -- BOSCH) due to the fact that any increase in Horsepower (decreases resistance) has to be knocked down by a "resistance device". My winch has a 6 Volt Ford starter motor running off of 12 Volts and is MUCH larger in respect to power than a competitive counterpart. The winch could be made to comply with Regs but it would take some resistance device to do so. Not only that, but as with a certified winches, it would need to be checked often for any calibration of the resistor as this changes as the winch is used through its lifetime or any changes are made to the electrical parts.

The equipment used to calibrate the winch is VERY expensive and this sort of calibration is only economical for those inclined to the serious end of sailplane competition. The best way around the expense is if you belong to a club that already has this equipment available.

I guess my new creation should have been a "Sport Winch" and not an "F3B" winch. This doesn't really matter to me anyway as it is a fantastic launch system even if it is way overpowered !

Thermals,
Tony

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Nice work. That really looks great.

Let me ask you something because of the comments you made on the first post and the fact that you did all this work. You have first hand experience.

Would you say that 925.00 USD is too much money to for a winch that is 100% F3B legal with a Bosh motor, adjustable resistor, end bearing support on the drum, one way bearing brake, foot switch all cables and the Swedish quick connectors, power coated frame and includes a F3B articulating ball bearing turn a round and the winch has been calibrated at time of mfg to F3B specs?

You have access to machines we don't and I would be interested in what value you would place on a turn key winch.

You have a great sport winch there, with mono and 6V mtr you are waaaaay more powerful than what the F3B guys use to launch to 1000 ft.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Here's my personal opinion on the cost of the winch equipment that's available ot there right now. Having built this winch entirely from scratch I can now see why some of the equipment is so expensive.

Look guys, the motor brand new is $110, The raw aluminum is another $100, The one way bearing is $100, other bearings are around $40, all the electrical parts and Stainless Steel Hardware are about $150. This is for my winch and no labor.

I spent the money on this as I wanted to be able to use the equipment when and where I wanted to plus I wanted certain features such as removable drums, dual solenoids, LED monitoring lights, one way bearing for use of Monofilament, LOTS OF POWER, etc.

Lets put it in perspective. If you buy ONE molded sailplane you will pay $950 for the plane (ballpark) plus another $300 for quality servos, and probably another $100 on a battery and receiver and maybe a couple RF chokes for the long servo leads. For one plane that's about $1500. Even with a low end plane that's at least $1000. Don't forget the possibility that this entire investment is at risk every time you fly. One crash and possibly you lost it all. The winch sits on the ground and will have some maintenence needed from time to time but it will always retain some value if you decide to sell it later on down the road.

When I see guys that own 2 or 3 moldies and they complain winches are too expensive I just scratch my head...

My point is, for the price of one molded sailplane, you can have a nice quality winch system and get one that meets your needs whether it's certified for serious F3B or not.

The cheapest system out there is probably Superskeg. You can build it yourself and get the basic parts for about $300. Bare in mind the motor (no bearings) and electrical parts are not included. There is also "The Winch Doctor" who makes the "Real Balls" plus his own version of a Sport winch. I think he sells this winch for about $950 turn key. Very nice piece of equipment. There are others like IFR "Little Big Winch" which might be cheaper but it looks smaller as well. These are all winches that are Non-F3B compliant (Sport winches). That means they are more powerful.

If I were to consider selling a winch as you see it here it would be about $950 as well. As with all things, you get what you pay for but we each have our own needs.

I'll have a last set of pictures to post of the completed winch with white painted frame and removed drum so you guys can see what that looks like as well.

Thermals,
Tony

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Where did you find your "Anderson" 2 plug coupling, and also, the quality battery cable that you used???

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

The battery connector was purchased the same time as the cables. I had the cable made at a place called United Auto Electric in Bellingham Washington. I am sure you can get it at any Automotive electrical supplier but they are kinda pricey. I think this one was $30. You can probably find it cheaper somewhere else. The cable is 2/0 welding cable and can be found at the same places you would find the plug. I would also check places that sell batteries. Welding suppliers will more than likely have the cable but the red is hard to find.

Hope this helps.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Andersen "Power Pole" connectors and heavy cable are readily available anyplace that sells/repairs electric fork lifts; I think they use a few more amps than an electric winch. Jim

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

www.robotcombat.com has them as well.

~Red

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Greetings Earthlings!


More photos for your viewing pleasure. Took these today. BIG thermal cycles today. Specked out many times, one time SCARY HIGH...

Photo is me with my RNR Genesis I havn't flown since my days in Sacramento, CA at the SVSS Davis field.

This is the finished winch with white polyurethane paint. It is working flawless, no problems.

Any questions please post them. If I can't answer them, maybe others can.

It's great to see a project you designed from the cocktail napkin work so well in real life!



Turbulence and barfbags!

Tony

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

That is ONE IMPRESSIVE winch. Please... pat yourself on the back again for me. Nice quality work.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Here's pictures with the drum removed. One 3/8" bolt and off it goes. No line removal necessary.

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

I am amazed at some of the beautiful craftsmanship that we see here and in other places.

Now for the other extreme I only have a saw and a torch. So I make a small frame buy block bearings and one motor bearing and with some cutting and hacking make a useable object. I think some would be interested but you will have to tell me how to post a picture.

Nevertheless the three bearings cost around $70 and the second hand motor was $35. But I read the Bosch motor site that told how powerful the motor was supposed to be then put it together from on site materials. I think it is within range of most people with a hacksaw and a torch or something to put it together. It could easily have a wood base. But it fits within the rule book for F3B power.

So how do you post pictures on this site?

Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME

RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
 

Just below the box where you type your reply is a link that reads, "Click here to upload!" It's not on the fast reply at the bottom of the page. You have to use the "post reply" button


Can you post a link to the Bosch motor site? I'd like to find out where I can get one of the popular Bosch motors used for F3B winches.

Thanks,
Roger