ro347

My Feedback: (13)

Im in the process of getting my first heli build together. Currently Im trying to figure out the craziness of the throttle and pitch curves. Below is how Ive set up the heli so far. Do these sound ok? Want to be extra careful as Id like to keep it in one piece. Thanks!

Pitch Curve
P1 - 35%/-3 degrees
P2 - 48.5%/-1.5 degrees
P3 - 57.5%/0 degrees
P4 - 72%/+5 degrees
P5 - 91.5%/+8 degrees

Throttle Curve
P1 - 0
P2 - 50
P3 - 80
P4 - 90
P5 - 100

Any suggestions/comments would be great-

bladeskiller

To have your throttle smoother around hovering point pitch (5-6 degrees) as a beginner, it would be better a pitch curve like
P1 -2 deg
P2 +1 deg
P3 +5 deg
P4 +7 deg
P5 +9 deg

Now about throttle curve. It depends on what kind of heli we are talking about (electric or nitro) and the size. For example if it is a 450 class electric a start point for throttle curve could be
P1 0%
P2 40%
P3 70%
P4 85%
P5 100%
If it is a 30 class nitro a starting point is.
P1 0% (idle trim)
P2 35%
P3 50%
P4 70%
P5 100%
For a 50 class nitro try
P1 0%
P2 25%
P3 40%
P4 60%
P5 80%

Of cource these are starting points that may be changed to achieve a rotor speed as constant as possible.

Now, if you wish to keep your pitch curve, you have better to set 9 degrees for P5 and it's absolutely necessary to change your throttle curve. 90% throttle for 5 degrees of pitch in normal flight is too much, in any case. Especially in case of a nitro heli the engine is going to screem out due to overrev.To keep your pitch curve start from

P1 0%
P2 30%
P3 40% for electric
P4 70%
P5 100%


P1 0%
P2 25%
P3 30% for 30 class
P4 50%
P5 100%



P1 0%
P2 25%
P3 30% for 50 class
P4 40%
P5 80%

Again these are only start points.


Hop it helps.

rotor09

The throttle curve for an electric he;li is very different then for a nitro, simply because of how an electric motor works. It will keep a steady rpm relative to the throttle setting in your radio. e.g. if a 100 setting delivers a 2500 rotor speed at 0 pitch and your battery can supply adequate current, then it will also have the same rotor speed using that same 100% at 10 degress or 5 degrees of pitch.

For training, try a normal like this:

P1 - 0
P2 - 60
P3 - 100
P4 - 100
P5 - 100

This should be used for start up, then once the rotor has come up to speed, then switch to idle up (I assume you will have the same pitch curve as in normal here also) with a curve setting like this:

P1 - 100
P2 - 100
P3 - 100
P4 - 100
P5 - 100

The higher the rotor speed, the faster will be your cyclic and collective response, so if with the 100% settings, you find the rotor speed too high then move them lower to maybe 80% or anywhere in between that you find you are comfortable with. Do not go below 80% because that will cause your ESC to work harder then it should and possibly run too hot.

mdharley

I just set the curve on my Blade CP at:

P1=40%
P2=45%
P3=50%
P4=75%
P5=100%

Still doing shake down on it - but it seems as though it may be fairly docile.

I'd like to know a little more about the ESC heating issues, please.

gmscholl

One thing I noticed about your settings is the 3-D negative settings. You won't want to play with negative settings as a newb, you'll have all you can handle with the differences of "nose in, nose out " flying. The people who tell you "first you need to learn how to hover" are the people you need to listen to. The mild settings suggested will make learning to fly progress faster.

ro347

My Feedback: (13)

Ive done a bit of hovering before. This was 2 years ago however for a period of a couple of months. That was on an RTF Belt CP which I obviously didnt need to assemble or set up.

From what ive been reading you need a little negative to get the heli down in the wind. I have no intention of 3D'ing anytime soon as I plan on taking it SLOW! I want a smooth curve for some basic hovering. Just trying to make sense of it all.

rotordoc1

For training, use the pitch curves described by bladeskiller, and with an electric heli, if you do not want to use the governor setting with your ESC, then set the throttle curves in your TX as described by rotor09.

ro347

My Feedback: (13)

Thanks guys. Ill give it a shot. I should be ready for take off within a week or two.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Although good advise was given on this thread, I believe one piece is missing.... Do you intend to fly scale or 3D after the learning process? If your answer is anywhere near aerobatics, then I've got good news for you.

The curve that you posted at the begining (with 0 degrees at mid-stick) is your safest bet. if you learn with anything other than 0 degrees at mid-stick, then when you transition into aerobatics, you will have a period of re-adjusting. (Don't ask me how I know ) With 0 degrees at mid-stick, you will transition into aerobatics smoothly and cleanly.

I can get into a lengthy discussion on why you should have 0 degrees at mid-stick if you ever intend to fly aerobatics, but I will not bore anybody with it right now. If you require additional explanation, just let me know and I can either send it thru PM or post it here.

Hope I wasn't too late before you changed anything in your radio.

Rafael

rotor09

I agree with Rafael about your pitch curve if ever you want to transition into aerobatics. In fact here is a good one for training (keeping the same throttle curves with electric) that will always make you comfortable hovering at 3/4 stick or so, in all types of flying. This will insure if you ever transition to 3D you will not have to ever retrain yourself.

First set up the heli MECHANICALLY for a linear pitch curve:

P1 (0% bottom stick) at -10 degrees
P2 (25% stick)at -5 degrees
P3 (50% mid stick) at 0 degrees
P4 (75% stick) at +5 degrees
P5 (100% top stick) at +10

Then while training go into your pitch curve and set the numbers as follows

P1 for -2 or -3 degrees
P2 for 0 degrees
P3 for 3 degree
P4 for 5 degrees
P5 for 10 degrees

Now you will find that your will be training to hover right side up in scale flight, or sport flight or 3D flight at around the 3/4 (P4) stick position, but your collective response will be more gentle then with a 3D curve and if you panic and pull full down stick, you will not be driving your heli into the ground.

Then as you progress, you can change the bottom three numbers to something that will have a more aggressive collective, but still hover at about the SAME stick position that you are used to when upright. Here is an example:

P1 for -5
P2 for -1
P2 for 2
P3 for 5
P4 for 10

And finally, when you think you are ready for full 3D aerobatics, go to the numbers that gave the linear -10/-5/0/+5/+10.

All the while, you can be leaving your Throttle curve as I described earlier for an electric heli.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I still disagree, absolutely 0 degrees at mid-stick. You do not have to have a symetrical curve or a linear "curve", but you need the 0 degrees at mid-stick. Meaning that you can have -4 degrees at bottom stick, 0 degrees at mid-stick, and +10 degrees at full stick, and be fine for learning. As a matter of fact, I have that exact same curve right now on my helis for Normal mode, and I've been flying helis for over 20 years. Of course the stunt curves are set-up for full 3D mode.

Seems like I need to go into the discussion of why you need to have 0 degrees at mid-stick.

The short and sweet version is that if I had one dollar for every person that approached me asking why their heli dives to the ground when they change from the Normal pitch curve to the stunt pitch curve I would probably have many more helis than what I have right now. the top of the curve needs to be exactly the same on all your flight modes for the helicopter not to dive when switching from normal to stunt. So I suggest to everybody that asks, to just program 0 degrees at mid-stick and +10 (or +12 whatever your helicopter can handle) at full stick. Then copy that to all the flight modes, and just change the bottom of the curve for aerobatics/3D.

Now if the intent is to NEVER fly aerobatics or 3D, then set-up with positive pitch at mid-stick and hover at mid-stick. Or if you are confortable with a transition period that could take anywhere from a few weeks to an entire flying season depending on learning skills, then have something other than 0 degrees at mid-stick.

Rafael

rotor09

Yes, but using the curve I pointed out for initial training will still have him get used to hovering at 3/4 stick, while still giving him a more gentle collective response while training. While training he will be upright.

You will note that I also said that as he progresses he can change into the other numbers I gave. This will allow him to confidentially transition into each phase.

ro347

My Feedback: (13)

Thank you guys for the guidance. I was able to do a little hovering today using the curves I set up initially. Its like riding a bike, it just came to me - no training "wheels" either. Lol

So yes I do intend to start doing aerobatics at some point. However that wont be anytime soon.

So the one thing I did notice is that I should probably lessen the negative pitch under half stick. When I do drop the stick, the heli drops. It doesnt drop super hard, but could probably soften it up a little for now. I will be playing around with the curves you guys gave above.

I guess I never mentioned - the heli is a 450 electric - ValueHobby 450 GF frame with metal head. (same as EXI and HK)

Components:
TowerPro MG90S on Cyclic
Esky 9g on tail (intended to use MG90S - however broke the mounting tabs on it during installation. When I place another online order Ill replace)
HobbyWing 40amp esc
Esky 3800K motor(dontated by my old belt Cp)
Futaba 7C

The ESC- I thought the "very soft start" setting would have been MUCH softer than it is. Is this something that is only controlled by the programming card on the esc? I have the card, but was wondering if there is a way to soften it more.

The few things I will need to work on...

The pitch curve, lowering the negative at low stick
Blade tracking
Cyclic trim
Using a 7C - how to use a switch to disable motor from running.

bladeskiller

You could activate the throttle hold function but, i suppose, you want to disable the motor in order to make pitch settings in normal pitch curve and if throttle hold switch is activated then, you can not set the normal pitch curve because, in throttle hold, the throttle hold pitch curve is active not the normal one.
The safest and simplest way to set your normal pitch curve without the motor running is to disconnect two of its three wires. Another way is to set all normal throttle curve points to zero ,during setting normal pitch curve. Of course ,you have to remember the throttle curve points to set them again where they were before. But, i advice you, to just have the motor disconnected during setup because you never know. I remember once that i reversed , by mistake ,the throttle channel during setting not having the motor disconnected. Try to imagine what happened [sm=drowning.gif] . That's why it is better to disconnect the motor during set up.

karenheli

Thumbs-up!

ro347

My Feedback: (13)

So i replaced my tail servo today as i broke the tabs while working on it yet again. The smallest servo I had sort of lying around(in the middle of another plane project) was a Hitec HS 85mg, so I put that on. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!! The tale felt so much more stable! WOW!