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Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Old 08-22-2004, 06:12 AM
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insanerc
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Default Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hello All! Newbie here again with more questions. Okay as you know (or the people that replied before anyway) I just got a Hummingbird a couple of weeks ago. Well I finally have the batteries sorted out and have been trying to learn to fly this thing. For those that didn’t catch my other post I have been flying planes forever and can fly full out 3-D so I’m not slouch on the sticks.

I have adjusted gyro gain and mix, balance it according to the instructions I found on the net. The book that came with it said nothing of balance if I remember correctly. And finally I had spent hours of our tile dining room floor trying to trim it out and adjust servo linkage per every instruction I could find. The floor is very slippery and it moves easily when any power is applied.

Well I’ve got it as steady as I seem to be able to. Though the more I power in up for a lift of the more it still wants to go one way or another. Should this thing even hover with little to no control input? Right now I’m up to short hops in all different directions. I think I’m starting to get a feel for it as it differs from the planes. I don’t mind the tail not being rock stable and can correct this mostly. The biggest problem like stated is it just wants to lift off in some direction very fast as soon as off the training pods and it’s almost never the same direction.

Is my little bird not set up right? I have see and heard people flying these things rather well. I’m getting frustrated (not ready to give up but try just that much harder) I’ll be damned if this thing is going to beat me, lol.

Lost my train of thoughts again. Is my little bird just sick, not set up right, do I just need more time, are these things normal, what can I do from here, or do I just go get the shotgun and put her down.


David
Old 08-23-2004, 07:19 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Oh well! Guess I'll just have to figure this out on my own hey. Or maybe post to another forum.
Old 08-23-2004, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

I dont own a hummingbird, but i do own a micro heli. The heli will want to go in its own directions, so you have to counter those movements with the cyclic stick with small movements. and when you lift off the ground, increase throttle slowly. It took me a day to get to a good hover.
Old 08-23-2004, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Thanks camra88, I finally gave up here and went to another forum and got an answer rather quickly. I surely appreciate you answering me on such a simple subject it would seem. I also learned about ground effect and I think that may be a big problem for me right now. I'm scared to take it up because I don't want to crash it so I'm trying to hover just inches off the ground.

If all of this is normal then I'm okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't fighting a heli that wasn't going to fly no matter what, lol. I was also told that micro helis' are particularly hard to hover close to the ground. I suppose with their light weight this only stands to reason. Now I guess it's getting close to time to push that throttle a little more and get her away from the ground some. It's either crash and burn (li-pos you know) or I'll fly the darn thing.

I can torque roll and tail touch a 3-D plane in hover but I feel very confident with planes. This thing is a major balancing act even compared with that! Hope the larger helis' are easier.


Thanks again my friend,
David
Old 08-24-2004, 03:30 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Yes, larger heli's are much easier... Anyways, I've owned a Hummingbird and probably will get another one sooner or later, it was a smooth little micro heli. If you don't mind spending some $ on it, one thing that will make the heli more stable are Hornet blades, they are shorter and have less pitch so it allows a higher headspeed which = better stability. You may need to get a bigger pinion though to compensate. Don't worry about crashing too much, the Hbird is very durable, the main thing is if you know you're going to crash, cut the power. I've crashed mine many times and have never stripped any gears or broke anything other than a couple of main blades and the tail blade once plus the boom braces Other than that, nothing and I've crashed it from 6-8 feet a few times in the grass.

Yea, when you're beginning, once you get to know the sticks and controls, you need to get the heli up at least 3 feet or so to get out of GE, you will notice a huge difference. Once you learn to hover stably though, you'll be able to hover a few inches off the ground no problem, don't worry, it'll come, I know it can feel like it's impossible at first and learning with a micro ain't the easiest. Wait till you try out an Eolo or Logo 10, you will simply be amazed! They are tons more stable and can handle wind like a charm Micros are a blast though but in my opinion not fun at all with a a breeze, you get blown around like a plastic bag with a fp. Indoors though, they can be very smooth.

Have fun!
Old 08-24-2004, 03:34 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Oh yea, I almost overlooked it since it's automatic with heli's but set up is very important and more so with micros as they are a lot more sensitive to proper set up. Make sure the center of gravity is even both ways, the main blades are balanced and another thing that's easily overlooked and can make a huge impact on stability is the flybar paddles, make sure the flybar is evenly spaced and that the paddles are perfectly level to eachother, just a couple of degrees off and there is a substantial difference in stability.
Old 08-24-2004, 08:03 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hello astronut30! Well I find comfort in the things you say. I'm not the type to let this thing get the best of me and I WILL learn to fly it. That's my goal and I'm stickin' to it, lol.

Good to hear about the larger helis' thought because I just got a 30 size one last night. The heli complete with everything was bought by a guy that only got as far as firing it up. He never even got to the point of finishing break in and powering it up. I talked to a guy at our LHS and he said I'd be crazy not to buy it for what the guy was asking. To make a long story short I did! I'm not going to try it myself until I get down this little bird but just looking at the big one will make me try that much harder with the hummingbird.

I'm glad you mentioned setup and I'm going to set down, pull the blades and check them for balance, as well as all the other thing you had mentioned once again. It's possible some of my furniture bumps have something out of whack I'm sure and I'm having a little problem balancing front to rear because I'm not using the much heavier hummingbird battery but rather a li-po.

I wanted to ask if anyone had any suggestions on balancing this better than what I have done. I added some small lead weights to the front but they seem very heavy in order to get it to balance because they are too close to the center and there is not enough frame to let me move them out front more to use less weight. I really need some opinions on this as this may or may not be part of my problem too. If no one else sees this here I'll make another post on it

Thanks a bunch,
David
Old 08-24-2004, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

When it comes time you can hover the Hbird for maybe 5-10 seconds at a time, you can start messing with your .30

Chances are you'll be able to hover it for as long as you can concentrate The only thing that may throw you off is that you'll be used to making a lot of corrections with the micro so you'll just have to get used to toning it down when you try your .30

As far as cg in your hbird, mount your battery as far forward as possible, here's a pic of how I mounted mine to give you an idea...
I just cut a little piece of ply, painted it black and zip tied it to the carbon frame tubes, my gyro up front also helped with cg. btw. a good hh gyro like the gy 240 will make it a lot easier to learn, anything helps when you're learning with a micro.
Old 08-24-2004, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

oops, the pic didn't show up, here it is again...
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Old 08-24-2004, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hey Chad that looks like an H-Bird is it? Anyway I see what you did and I'm going to do something similar. I also see you have the same thing as me; the battery is too wide to fit between the landing gear and looks to be tilted down. I guess that's your gyro on top? I've got this GWS PHA-01 board that I've read a lot of bad stuff about so I don't know about it. Seems to work fine but I'm using a two cell li-po because I hear the 3 cell will fry it. The run time is good and head speed is good. It lifts very easy with little throttle it seems. This is part of the problem though as this battery weighs almost nothing. In my hand I can barely feel any weight at all, maybe like a quarter. I'd have to get separates to move the gyro forward as the board is mounted where they say it should go. I had another thought. Maybe I could just put a couple of lead weights in the nose of the canopy. They would be so far forward it shouldn't take much weight. I’m going to study your setup and see what I can come up with. I'm also looking at the collar mod on the shaft and removing that plastic piece.


David
Old 08-24-2004, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Yea, the 3 cell will probably fry up your board pretty quick, I also used a 2 cell and was very happy with it, I to didn't mind adding more weight to the bird as it's so light and stank in the wind, I added aluminum skids which helped a bit and looked cool. I was going to try out the TP 2100 cells which I would've had to figure something out because it's quite a bit longer than the ETEC and just almost as wide but I didn't really get around to ordering one.

Adding weight up on the nose won't do any harm, i don't understand why so many people are so anal about weight, I was trying to add weight and the more the more stable it flew. I guess it's always breezy here so I needed it, I can understand the 3D guys trying to keep em light though...

My flight times with the 2 cells were still great as well, imagine the TP 2100's, that would've been nice. Probably over 30 minutes! Man I want to get me another Hbird when I finally move outta here and get a bigger living room area

ps. yes the aluminum shaft collar mod is a must. and yes it is a Hummingbird as well, they're a really great micro heli I attached a couple more close up pics that may give you ideas...
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:10 PM
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insanerc
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hey Chad, get a load of this. My current setup my leave something to be desired and look funny as hell but hey you do what you have to do, lol.

Note the socket, hand picked for size and weight!








David (aka INSANE-R/C) LOL!
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

guys im having flying problems too with my hummingbird FP. I cant get it hovering, it wants to slide and spin before I get it off the ground. I can compensate for the spinning by backing off the tail throttle, but it still likes to slide. Ive been trying to get it set for 5 days. I've busted 4 blades already and patched them many times. Is it really that hard to learning to hover? or do i have something not set right? New blades are comming tommorow and ill give it a try again, try and trim it again. Once i get it in the air it likes to go fast any way it wants lol. Likes to lean over too. I just need someone with experience to fly it and tell me what i need to do....
Old 08-24-2004, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hey, whatever works man. We gotta be resourceful in this hobby I was just thinking, why don't you run like a 2s2p or a 2s3p in a brick layout, I'm not sure if I phrased those right but same voltage but double or triple the capacity for some crazy run times and make up for the weight of the socket
Old 08-24-2004, 11:52 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hey Chad I think you lost me there on the 2s4p etc. stuff. Wouldn't the voltage go up just as when you add cells together?

Glad you gat a laugh out of my current setup, but you're right. Whatever makes it work hey?


David
Old 08-24-2004, 11:59 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Hello TMASTER, sounds like you are having sort of the same problem I am. If you heli is setup exact then I believe you are just going through growing pains like me. The ground effect could have a lot to do with this (if you don't know what this is I can explain it to you). Like Chad told me check ALL settings again and make sure your setup is correct. Also if you're new like me maybe don't push it quite so hard. I've been very lucky and haven't broke anything yet (YET) anyway!

Also what kind of gyro and speed control are you running. This may help someone give you better info.


David
Old 08-25-2004, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

ORIGINAL: TMASTER

guys im having flying problems too with my hummingbird FP. I cant get it hovering, it wants to slide and spin before I get it off the ground. I can compensate for the spinning by backing off the tail throttle, but it still likes to slide. Ive been trying to get it set for 5 days. I've busted 4 blades already and patched them many times. Is it really that hard to learning to hover? or do i have something not set right? New blades are comming tommorow and ill give it a try again, try and trim it again. Once i get it in the air it likes to go fast any way it wants lol. Likes to lean over too. I just need someone with experience to fly it and tell me what i need to do....
Yup, it's totally natural for the heli tending to slide upon initialy lift off, the rotor wash is trying to move the heli. Once you get it up about 3 feet or so, it will be a huge difference. This is assuming your set up is right as insanerc stated. Read some of the tips on this thread and if you have everything set up right, try bringing the bird up to 3 feet or so for the heck of it and you'll see what we mean. As far as the tail wanting to spin, assuming your throttling up smoothly, you need to adjust your gain, it may be too low. If you can, get yoruself a hh gyro, it will make learing a whole heck of a lot easier as it will stailize the tail for you.


insanerc- I think I phrased it right 2s meaning 2 cells in series which gives you double the voltage which is what you're running and then 2p meaning 2 in parallel which gives you double the capacity. So 2s2p would give you the same voltage but double the capacity. So looking at extremes, you could run a 2s5p which is 10 cells to give you like 6,000mah based on Etec 1200s but have the same voltage as you're running.
Or vice versa but you can add more cells and add capacity but not add voltage. Someone can give you the specifics on how the way it's phrased works. hehe.
Old 08-25-2004, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Chad you are exactly correct! I didn't understand your terms but now that you explained what you mean I understand exactly. Hey, I even found a great little example showing exactly how this could be done. Check this link out:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/bat...eries_or_p.htm



David


PS: You may be on to something here. More weight to balance but not wasted weight at all! Do you think the li-pos would agree with such a setup?
Old 09-01-2004, 07:33 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Great news all! Yesterday at a flying field I found a friend with a 30 size heli. We talked a bit as he explained things to me. He knew that I was good with a radio because he had seen me fly 3-D planes here before so asked me if I would like to try his heli with his instuctions. With his setup and ready I said what the hey and gave it a try. Guess what? I actually lifted off with it, hovered around (at around 6-8 feet) and got the feel of it. I was in control at that point and feeling everything the Heli was doing with my input on the controls............WOW! After a few minutes I started getting a little nervous because this wasn't my bird and I landed her with him telling me what to do. What a great feeling! I love these helis'!


Thanks for all the help guys!
David
Old 09-01-2004, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Great news all! Yesterday at a flying field I found a friend with a 30 size heli. We talked a bit as he explained things to me. He knew that I was good with a radio because he had seen me fly 3-D planes here before so asked me if I would like to try his heli with his instuctions. With his setup and ready I said what the hey and gave it a try. Guess what? I actually lifted off with it, hovered around (at around 6-8 feet) and got the feel of it. I was in control at that point and feeling everything the Heli was doing with my input on the controls............WOW! After a few minutes I started getting a little nervous because this wasn't my bird and I landed her with him telling me what to do. What a great feeling! I love these helis'!


Thanks for all the help guys!
David
Old 09-01-2004, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Sounds like a cool experience, what a guy to trust you with his bird That must've fueled your excitement for heli's didn't it?
Old 09-01-2004, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Need help with flying my hummingbird please...

Yeah it was cool that he not only trusted me but helped me out. There may be more than meets the eye here though, lol. After he started talking about my planes and my 3-D flying.


David

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