flying-penguin

Hello Heli pilots,

My wife bought me one of those $25 two channel Havoc knockoffs for Christmas and I have been toying with it with much joy for about a week. All I can do now with the cheapie one is go up/down left right. Prior to this, my only RC experience has been with Tamiya cars and R/C power boats.

Since getting this gift.... all that's on my mind has been a nicer heli which I can actually hover and fly it outdoors once a while. I've done a lot of reading the past days and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a RTF model I want a heli that meets these requirements of mine.

- I have no plans to own more than 1 heli. I just want to keep it simple and buy something to fly around my back yard (and occasionally indoors if skills allow).
- I have no plans to fly 3D unless I really get into this. But I like the challenge of being able to master the control of blade pitch.
- I want a model heli instead of a flying machine. Therefore I'm not interested in getting a coaxial because they don't look like a model heli.
- I'm in no hurry to get flight so I don't mind taking up to 6 months before I can get a heli to hover.
- Initial investment under $250. I don't mind the cost of repairs but I don't like to waste money either.

I have a freind who's into this and he advises me to buy a coaxial as my fist heli. But since I want a more realistic looking helicopter, I was thinking a a 4 channel FP model. Then he said the price between FP and CP kit is very little so might as well get a CP. This same friend can also lend me his sim.

So now I've narrowed my choices down to these in the following order listed by preference:

1) Esky Belt CP
2) Esky HoneyBee King2 CP
3) Esky HoneyBee (FP)


Given these contraints, am I being foolish here to think of buying a CP machine?
My biggest fear is buying a 6 channel heli and never aquiring the skills to fly it so I end up spending $250 and get frustration instead of enjoyment.


TIA.

Druss

the flying characteristics of a fp and cp will be very similar, the cost of crashing the cp though will be higher.

If you take your time and go though radds and use the sim then you should have no problems with the cp, be warned that you will still crash and the repairs would cost more than with a fp but if you're only going to get one then the belt cp would be best. I don't suggest you fly it inside the house though, the rotor blade diameter will be around 2' and rotate at 3000 rpms. you can get the smaller king2 but need to upgrade the motor and esc to brushless to get the most out of it.

Both the king2 and belt cp have good upgrade paths with a lot of upgrades offered (like aluminum head and tail, carbon fiber body... etc) from both esky and xtreme production.

jaketrouble

sounds like you have it all figured out.. since you only want to get one heli i would go for a hbk2 with a upgraded motor and esc. the stock motors on the kings are junk.. this will cost you around 200 shipped.. an fp is a decent bird and about half the price or less.. parts are also cheaper and the fp is also a lot easier to work on.

but they are also the hardest to fly because of there size and they have a tail motor.. like you i started out with one of those 25 dollar toys. then i liked it so much i bought a 50 dollar dragonfly.[2 channel..] but like the toy it would only go,,up/down,,left/right.. so then i did some research and bought a Black Hawk 450 from ka-planes.com.. very nice bird.. but i kept crashing it over and over so then i bought a honeybee fp to use for practice.. they are very hard to fly but do fly!!

so then i bought a honeybee king 2 from ushobbysupply.com.. like the bh i kept crashing it too.. so then i bought a walkera 5#5 coaxil to fly around the house.. a lot of fun but like you said not to realistic. but it does help you learn the sticks.. and then i bought another black hawk 450.. right now after 4 months i can hover only and not to good at that.. but i do have a sim which i practice everyday and it does help a lot.. so when you say you only plan on getting one heli i wouldnt be too sure about that. these things are very addictive.
my plan was only to buy 1 good heli too.. good luck on that:}:}

so to answer your question,, the fp is a good starter if you have a sim.. they are cheap and easy to fix.. a honeybee king 2 is a nice bird that has a belt driven tail instead of motor driven.. they are much easier to fly. generally,,the bigger the bird the easier to fly.. so if you know for sure you only will ever buy 1 bird i would get the hbk2.. unless you have a very big house you probably wont be able to fly this in your house.. even an fp might be a challenge.. now if you get the fp and can master that then the bigger ones will/should be a breeze to fly.. so why not start out with an fp... they are cheap enough that if you decide you dont like heli's then you are not out so much money and if you do like it then you can still buy a hbk2 and still be under your 250 dollar mark. jake

newbie13

I'm in the EXACT same boat as you.

The Esky's look good to me too, but there are no local shops around that carry them for me. I can buy online, but you don't get the feedback and learning from the local hobby shop.

Everyone has the E-flites, but like you, I'm afriad to jump right in and spend a lot of money on a 200 dollar model and then more money on the sim. I too don't want to get a fixed pitch because it's not like getting the CP and to me, why waste money on that when you can spend a little more to get more realistic flight model that can grow with you, but at the same rate I don't want to get frustrated either.

The Heli-max cp looks good too, but don't haven't heard any reviews on them.

Let me know what you do and any feedback from the group would be great!

flying-penguin

Thanks you Druss and Jake for the advice. I have the HKB2 on the list because it's smaller than the Belt CP. Being smaller I thought maybe I could eventually fly this one indoors. But sounds like neither is good for indoors. My house is only 1500sq with 8' ceilings. And if I get the HBK2 and upgrade the motor and ESC, wouldn't that bring the price up to the cost of the Belt CP? Sounds like I may as well just get the Belt CP from the getgo since neither is good for indoors. Any other reasons to choose the HKB2 over the Belt CP?

Newbie13, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one agonizing on which heli to buy :-) Like you I visited all my local hobby shops the past 3 days and all they sell are E-flites and the TREX helis. So there is no way to buy parts locally for me too. Then I realize I will be buying all my stuff online anyway so I will not rely (nor do I want to bother) my local hobby shop since I did not buy it from in the first place. I see there's huge Esky support (parts & advice) online too so that should be good enough. Like I said, I'm in no hurry so waiting for parts in the mail is no big deal for me.

R/C heli has always intrigued me since I was a teenager (1980s). Back then there was no such thing as sub $200 heli !!

Druss

I've only been flying heli's for a year but like you have always wanted to try. I bought a co-axial as my first and got bored with it as the challenge was gone after a couple of weeks. I still fly it indoors but only indoors (also more fun since I mounted a wireless camera on it).

Like you stated, putting the brushless upgrade on the king2 brings it to very close to the price of the belt cp. I have both and fly both but the belt cp is more stable but I have an airwolf fuselage on the king2 so that's fun too.

I have to agree that local hobby store support means less than most ppl realize. I've always bought a lot of my stuff online so getting parts was no big deal.

Whether you decide on the king2 or belt cp i'm sure you'll be happy. I suggest you get some parts with your original order though as you'll break the most right at the beginning.

nuttcaze

I just ordered a HoneyBee Fp for my first heli, was an agonizing choice because like you guys I didn't want to buy a heli just to upgrade in a few months but in the end I can buy 2 FP's with some spare parts for the price of a Belt CP. Alot more comforting to think of the price considering I'm just gonna crash a few times anyways. Once I master that thing then I'll look at better ones. Just ordered a FP from KA-Planes in FLORIDA, no waiting for it to get shipped from china, it's already in the US, was $10 cheaper on other sites but shipping is $15, where as KA cost $99 with $10 shipping, and they're in the US, lol. On a side note, I got a part-time job to get into this hobby, make a little over $100 a week from it, so no matter what I will get more heli's.

whagen01

My first heli was a Syma 9093 for $30. Up/down and yaw left/right was all it would do, and it can only fly in little or no wind, unless you want to chase it downwind every flight. I didn't, so I gave it to my 9-year-old. He loves it.

Air Hogs' Havoc Heli (and knockoffs) are fun to fly indoors, but have much of the same limitations as the Syma. They either hover, spin uncontrollably, or can be trimmed to fly forward, but then won't hover - or at least, not hover well. Hovering has always intrigued me, so I started looking around again.

I bought a used E-flite Blade CX and, with much help from a flight simulator, learned to hover it in my garage. Not without breaking stuff, but I did learn. I soon found out that the CX isn't good for outdoor flying in winds over about 4 to 5 mph. Also, co-axial helicopters (like the CX and CX2) are much easier to fly than FP or CP, but also much less of a challenge. I bought upgrades (motors, folding blade kits, carbon fiber tail, etc.), but soon discovered that an upgraded co-axial heli is still a co-axial heli.

By the time I found this forum, I had bought two simulators, six or seven cheap co-axial helis, and was interested in an inexpensive CP or FP. Other threads available on the forum helped me narrow my search. I found that most of the E-flite helis were universally not recommended because of their high price to buy and repair, and difficulty for beginners to fly. I didn't read much encouraging news about Walkera helis, either. Esky helis, even the 3D expert ones like the Belt CP or Honeybee King 2, were mentioned a lot, and considered a very good choice for beginners on a budget ($200-ish). There ARE better helis out there, but they're all well over $300.

Since Esky CP helis were priced within reach of a good (or similarly upgraded) FP, I decided to look further into buying a CP. Three things I read helped make my decision. First, the recommended immediate upgrades (brushless motor, ESC) for the Honeybee King 2 brought it very close to (if not more than) the cost of a Belt CP. Second, upgrade paths and cost for either helicopter would be about the same, since they use much of the same parts. Third, since the Belt CP is roughly 25% larger than the HBK2, it would be more stable and, presumably, slightly easier to fly.

So I ordered a Belt CP from Ebay, and am waiting for it to arrive from China. Cost was $195, incluing extra main/tail rotor blades and training kit. I'll see how well that "slightly easier to fly" assumption works out. But hey! I've found out that xheli.com stocks repair parts for the Belt right here in the US of A, so I don't have to wait as long for them!

So far I've spent $225 on simulators, and at around four times that on helicopters and repair parts. Now I'm searching Ebay for upgraded radio parts. And the journey is only just beginning! The addiction has started! Hey little boy, the first one's FREEEEEEEE!

nuttcaze

I never tried any of the air hogs, or any heli for that matter, but after some sim practice I'm ready for my HB FP, should be here tuesday, only has to come from Florida, KA-Planes has all the ESKY parts you need, another place in the US that will make ordering parts easier and quicker, but once I can fly a FP than I'll go the same route and buy a Belt CP. And about the E-flite, I cant imagine they would be any harder to learn on then any other similar heli, but the price, omg, I don't understand why 75% of local hobby shops carry the E-flite when they could carry a more diverse lineup that is cheaper and easier for people to join this sport/hobby. If I didn't have internet, I would have forgot all about getting a RC heli after seeing the prices at my LHS. But since I wont buy my heli there still gonna go buy some stuff just to get a good repor with the guys down there, I'm sure their knowledge will help me in the future.

Druss

xheli is not the best place to buy, poor customer service and very little communication. helidirect, ushobbysupply and ka-planes all carry esky parts.

kenvs

I started off with a Mega Tech Micro-fly and thought it was a kick for 3.5 minutes of flying time. Went to an E-sky HB FP w/ training gear the E-sky FMS simulator and became addicted. Now I'm into a T-rex 600 CF electric that I'm fleshing out with electronics and practice on a Real Flight G4 sim. The FP is great for monkeying around the basement with; it is not something that you would be able to fly outside in the least bit of wind. The HBK CP w/BL motor would be a good trainer and also allow you to do some free-styling if the mood strikes you and not put too much of a strain on the pocketbook. There are two givens in this hobby: 1) you will not learn overnight and 2) you will crash. The E-sky Belt CP w/BL motor can be had for just a few dollars more that the HBK, is bigger (so that you can see it easily), heavier (to handle breezes [not gale force winds] better), and more stable (even though less forgiving in some areas). The Belt CP is not something to fly in the house, near dogs or small children. Have fun ... the addiction will follow. - Ken

flying-penguin

Very good advice offered here. Thank you all. After an agonizing week of helis on my mind, I going to jump in with both feet and get the Esky Belt CP. I'll be putting in my order for one this week.

More reading here made me realize that there is really no safe bigger heli to fly indoors at my house. I have two young kids and my boy loves to chase down my Havoc knockoff already. So I'm just going to stick with my cheap $25 two channel toy for indoor fun. I ruled out the HBK2 because with upgrades, the price is equal to the Belt CP. The HBFP was ruled out because now two friends advised me that the difference (price and skills needed) to pilot a FP and CP isn't that much. And even if I ever master flying a FP bird, I will want to experiment with a CP. The Belt CP seems to be a good all around heli for what I want to do. It's bigger so more stable and has all the features of a full featured heli. I still worry about the complexity but the rewards are worth it if I can meet the challenge.

So wish me luck. I'm a rather patient person with reasonable goals. Hover in 6 months, forward flight in 1 year!

I-Drag-N-Fly

flying-penguin, that is so similar to my story! Got a Havok on x-mas and started obsessing immeadiately after about a better one, found the Belt CP. On Dec 31 2007 ordered it from Helidirect (massechusets I think?) and got it on 1-4-08. It was $203 something with training kit and free shipping but it looks like they are out of stock again. These birds must be a hot ticket right now! Only had a chance to spin it up a few times and it's soooo kewl! Even though the longest time it spent off the ground so far was about 5-6 seconds at 3 inches, I am still impressed and tickled. Even just tuning it in slideing around on the garage floor has been a blast. I've spooled it up a few times in my living room on the coffee table to check things over and it's not for indoor use. It's even kind of scary to be that close to it when it's running. Used up about 2.5 batteries (charges) so far tuning and cant wait to get comfortable enough to try and hover. I think starting it for the first time on a cement surface is a good thing because you can get the heli set up to stay put by just watching witch way it drifts when slideing over the concrete. If it was a grass surface you might have to give it too much throttle to find out if something is out of balance and then it would be too late.


Later,
e.

Druss

Just be sure not to trim it too much while on the concrete. the heli will tend to drift left during take off and it's normal, if you set it up so that it doesn't do that on take off the heli will want to go to the right when it gets in the air.

I-Drag-N-Fly

Thanks a bunch, that has been some of my problem, it has been drifting left and backwards. I learned about square'in up the swash plate tonight, I bet that will help to, I had it WAY off.

It has been so much fun so far, hope it stays that way after I crash it
thanks,
e.

whagen01

I read the post about squaring the swashplate. I don't know how to do that, so could comeone point me in the direction of the procedure? Thanks. Yesterday, my Belt CP got delivered. It's twice the size of my Blade CX! Very anxious to get it into the air. Must be patient....[]

nuttcaze

I believe Ushobby has a tool for leveling the swashplate on a belt CP. wait here, http://www.ushobbysupply.com/product...roducts_id=226

Rhizzlebop

Ok, I need some help guys.

I was here some months ago looking at small airplanes. I own an Sky Fly RTF. Its kinda fun but I never got good.

I also own all the parts to a slowstick brushed motor, but I never got it together. I kept having servo issues and I couldn't figure out the problem. The friggin servos kept twitching all the time and I couldn't figure it out. It never got fully together cause I couldn't get past that issue. I own a badass Spectra something something transmitter and all that jazz, and right now its just sitting there. ANYWAY!!!

So, the reason I'm here is, because, while the airplanes may be easier than the helis, I believe my issue is vision.

I have some vision issues. Been that way since birth, no docs has a good explaination, something genetic they think. I consider myself as "seeing" just fine. I drive, all that jazz, I work as an engineer, but I don't have good eyes.

The best lense correction efforts get me to around 20/45 plus or minus 5. Well, in real terms, that means my vision is at best, half as good as someone with good eyes.

So, for that reason, my biggest problem with planes are, they must keep travelling to stay up, and when they get any distance out from me, I can't tell if they are coming or going or whats going on until its FAR too late to correct.
I lost a sky fly once cause I couldn't tell it was moving away from me until it hit the trees in the distance.

so.........

Rhizzlebop

With that said, I am now looking into the helis.

(additionally, the skyfly takes a pretty big space to fly. With a heli, once I'm good, I think i could fly it pretty much anywhere and will hence, be able to get a lot more practice time and get good.)

So, I know these are harder. It seems a BIT extreme to me when I see people saying that they wanna be able to hover in 6 months! That seems pretty long! Is hovering a particularly hard skill or is that really the first step toward forward flight and these guys are saying, after 6 months, they are NOT even doing forward flight, they are just able to keep it off the ground?

For reference, I've done a good bit with RC cars in the past, I have excellent hand eye coordination.
I'm a mechanical engineer so I have a strong sense of mechanical systems and forces and how things work.

I was reading yesterday about blade angle delay and such (how the blade angle will be moved at say 12 oclock but the blade wont deflect until 3oclock and hence the resulting force.

So, I feel like I can handle this, and I can keep it closer to me and be able to see whats going on.

So...........

Rhizzlebop

With ALL of that said, I'm looking at a Heli.

I've been reading around the forums to see whats a good trainer but hopefully something I can have fun with for a while.

I'm looking at the Esky Belt CP or the HoneyBee King II (or maybe its the III now thats current).

Is one of these what I should be looking at? Or another? I know everyone has an opinion, so all I can do is take a tally of the most popular opinion and go with it.

I'm leaning toward the Belt CP cause having the rear motor die WOULD SUCK. I've seen a lot of posts reporting that on the HB.

I've read the discussions between the CP (collective) and none. Seems like no big thing. You would just set throttle, and use pitch for lift with CP, vs using throttle for lift on a NONE CP model...right?

Or does more throttle on a CP just increase the pitch as RPM and angular acceleration increase, so its STILL throttle driven?

Also, WHY is the Belt CP RTF out of STOCK EVERYWHERE?

Looks like USHobbysupply.com actually has it in. It comes with the 450 brushless, and a 1000mAh batt. Correction, NO Out of STOCK here as well.

The only place I've found it then is on eBay. The seller has nearly 6000 feedbacks. His comes with an 1800mAh batt, the 450 brushless, AND an extra set of blades (rotor and tail), and a free training kit. His is 195 shipped and he told me 7 days to get it, but it says ships FROM China.

His IS the RTF version. (This is what i want).

Anywhere that I am not aware of that has this heli in stock?

Are there any components that I should go ahead and order from SOMEWHERE to have on hand? Like an extra main shaft (name?) or extra batter? Anything?

HELP!!!!

nuttcaze

try here, Mike's in Fl, you can just call his store too. http://www.ka-planes.com/inc/sdetail/2248



Ka-Planes n' Kopters
Melbourne Florida
Phone: 321-821-2246
M-Sa 10am - 6pm
www.Ka-Planes.com

Druss

The heli probably wants to drift backwards due to the heavy tail, the center of gravity is pretty bad towards the tail. Move the battery forward in the battery compartment until the cog is even or slightly forward. Check the cog by putting the main blades parallel with the tail (right over it) then put your fingers under the flybar and lift the heli off the ground, see if it leans forward or back.


First of all, don't be afraid to order from overseas, I've never had any problems with it. Try rchelicoptershop, ehirobo, hooobby... etc.

As to a CP heli, it uses both throttle AND pitch to provide lift CCPM stands for collective cyclic pitch management. The belt cp has both a linear throttle curve (0 to 100 from bottom of stick to top) and a linear pitch curve (unless you play with the knobs on the top of the tx) which goes from -1 to +6 in normal mode and -9 to +9 in idle up. In idle up mode the throttle curve looks like a V it goes from 100 (top stick) to 75 (mid stick) to 100 (bottom stick).

Spare parts you want are
Blades (main and tail)
main shaft
feathering (spindle) shaft
flybar
belt
main gear (with one way bearing)

The main blades and feathering shafts you want to have more than one of. An extra battery will help your learning so that you don't have to stop when you're starting to get the hang of things. I have around 10 11.1v batteries.

Rhizzlebop

So, you guys agree this is probablya pretty good one to go with?

Looks like KA has it, but they are OOS on the extra belt.

flying-penguin

FYI, I just bought from that Ebay seller with 6000 feedback. Start my 7 day count now! It came down to buying form KA planes or Ebay but the Ebay deal was too good to pass up with the extras stuff like blades and training kit. I'll post again when I receive the package.

Rhizzlebop

Penguin: I know who you bought from.

I've emailed that guy with a couple questions and he responds pretty quickly. I think he is in the US, but he said the item will come directly from china and its usually about 7 days till delivery.

KA looks like a good shop and a nice guy, but he's higher for less stuff. What can ya do.

I may order all my extra parts from him though.

Anyone disagree with buying this model to learn on?