Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Helicopters > RC Helicopter Beginners Forum
Reload this Page >

Belt CP Spinning Help!

Notices
RC Helicopter Beginners Forum If you are a beginner or "newbie" to RC heli's feel free to post your questions right here in the rc heli beginner forum.

Belt CP Spinning Help!

Old 08-16-2008, 09:06 AM
  #1  
Helinewbie1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Union, MO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Belt CP Spinning Help!

Hello,Hello, My kids bought me a 2 channel dragon fly for xmas which got me started on these heli's wasn't long and I wanted a little more so I bought a belt cp (ready to fly out of the box) NOT! Instructions were poor at best. And I do understand that flying/owning one of these is also working and tweeking them sooooo. After crashing a number of times and buying blades and main gears I can't seem to get it to stop spinning on me. My gyro is set on (rev) doesn't really seem to matter. I also tried to re-adjust the tail servo so the link is perpandicular like the instructions callout but the servo is all the way against the chasis so I can't really get it set up. It's like the link rod for the tail rotor is too long? Even with the trim adjusted all the way to one side I can't seem to keep the heli from spinning. It doesn't appear that the rod is adjustable for length so........ now what? The tail tube is adjustable but that controls belt tension so I can't back the tube out to get more room for the servo to move. Can anyone shed a little light on me please ? Also I bought a simulator and the tail control on it doesn't work either! (I'm jinxed on tail rotor's)The quality of the program seems poor, Very frame by frame reminds me of a early video game from the 80's not very good controle. Don't even use the simulator, seems cheap/junky.Has anyone else this problem.
Frustrated Newbie
Old 08-16-2008, 04:17 PM
  #2  
Druss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

Helis are not easy to get started in, especially on your own. The correct set up and problem solving can take a lot of time. My first suggestion is to find someone local from a club or something that can help you in person.

For now here are a couple things you can do to check everything is working:

Make sure the tail servo is not stripped, just move it back and forth by hand and feel for anything not smooth.

check to make sure the gyro is working and in the correct direction, with everything plugged in correctly and turned on lift the heli up by the landing skids and rotate it quickly in one direction then the other and look to make sure the servo is reacting to that movement. The pitch of the tail blades should increase when the heli nose is rotated left (from the top).
Old 08-16-2008, 06:36 PM
  #3  
Jester241
Senior Member
 
Jester241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MCALISTERVILLE, PA
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

I had the same problem after putting an eflight blade 400 tail rotor shaft (which was a bit longer) on my Belt cp. It wanted to spin around pretty bad at low throttle settings. I think this was because the heli wasnt going fast enough for the gyro to really kick in and make up for the longer shaft which was really throwing the tail rotor blade pitch off. I simply had to slide my tail servo front a bit or back a bit(forget which way) and it fixed the problem right up.

Most likely this is all you need to do. I'm guessing you have to move the servo around to get the pitch of the tail blades about where they need to be when your servo is at its neutral setting. This will make it easier for your gyro to pick up the slack once your start throttling up.

Just spend a minute studying your heli tail rotor blades pitch while considering which way the main rotor blades are trying to spin your heli and then figure out which way to slide your servo. And just make sure your servo arm is centered while your servo is in neutral position. Let us know if you get it fixed!
Old 08-16-2008, 09:29 PM
  #4  
jmann71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Royersford , PA
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

did you accidently put the tail blades on backwards? also if the belt tension is to low, it could slip not giving enough rpm on the tail.
Old 08-16-2008, 09:29 PM
  #5  
inv|s|ble
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

the instructions for my Belt CP, say to adjust the tail rotor servo, so that the tail rotor is 1/3rd of the way out from the tail...which puts my servo roughly 1/4th an inch out from the body....maybe your tail is too far in, and your tail belt is slipping?
Old 08-17-2008, 08:46 AM
  #6  
Helinewbie1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Union, MO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

Jester, how do you determine proper belt tension? I guess it's possible the tail blades could be on backwords it came assembled (ready to fly) I didn't assemble it. The gyro does seem to respond when the heli is on and I hold it by the skids and move it around. I've found some good info on set up and instructions on these forums and have gone through the basics. You said something about the gyro not working the same at low speed but if the heli is spinning then it continues to spin as I take off. If set up correctly shouldn't it be the same no matter what? I would like to find some folks in my area that are into helis but tough to find. One on one would be great. But untill then this is my only ref. It's great that there are places like this to go and at least discuss things. Thank you all. My heli does seem to respond to the contrls properly it just seems theres not enough tail adjustment in the oposite direction. Even with the trim all the way to compensate.The tail servo mount is at 1/3 like the instruction callout. If the belt needs to be tightened and I move the tail out a little more, then I can move the servo more in the direction it needs to go. I guess I can change holes in the servo arm also, but I thought it was set up at the factory? At least everything reads that they are. There's alittle more to these than I thought. Not like the 2 ch Dragonfly. I still fly it and just look at my Belt CP. I'll get it figured out keep reading and plugging away.
Old 08-17-2008, 10:01 AM
  #7  
jmann71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Royersford , PA
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

alright. a question to get started. i apoligize for just thowing things at you, but i do want to help so.
1. which way is the heli spinning as viewed from above
Old 08-17-2008, 05:14 PM
  #8  
Jester241
Senior Member
 
Jester241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MCALISTERVILLE, PA
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

The belt is a good kopter. I'm sure your just having some mechanical issues. Dont know if this is correct or not,but to check the belt tention,I just take a small screwdriver or something and push on the belt itself wherever you can find a spot. There should be some slight resistance.Not so much that it wants to stretch the belt,but not too little that its flopping around. It COULD be that your gryo is junk,but I highly doubt it. Its most likely your servo just needs moved front or back. And I also highly doubt you need to move the ball on your servo arm.

Like Jmann said....which way does it want to rotate?
Old 08-18-2008, 07:29 AM
  #9  
chris6414
My Feedback: (10)
 
chris6414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

I'm no "finless" with regards to helos but I am a basic pilot with about 15 years of Nitro planes and 3 years of Helos to help in coping with the frustration of flying RC aircraft. Before you attempt setup, be sure your motor is unplugged and the rudder servo is unplugged. HH gyros (if you have one)can eat servos (I'll explain later)

1st: Helos in this size, or any size for that matter, require CONSTANT input on the sticks. In a perfectly calm condition you may be able to get "hands off" for a few seconds. Grab a mirror and marble, and hold the mirror with the marble on the glass and try to keep the marble in the center. That's the type of concentration and constant input it takes to hover, say in a 12 inch space of air. Where you are at now, I would get or make a set of trainer gear which when used properly, will let you hover and have some rough touchdowns without breaking things. I'll have you know, I used a set of "un-cool" trainer gear for 3 months before I took them off on a Dragonfly #4 FP helo. I only crashed once with them on.

Normal mode: Sorry no 3D experience

2nd: If this is your first Helo (rotor on top and rotor on the tail) not coax, then the mechanical set-up is critical to a decent flying (or shall we say for now) hovering machine. Luckily for me I had a chance to work on 3 Belts before mine came.

The first thing I would start with is the servos and their linkages to the swash plate. The servo arms should be as close to 90 Degrees as possible. Next, I removed the ball link from the swash and from the servo on both sides and made sure that Bell crank (servo to swash) was both snug(screw) and smooth. You can't check it hooked up. Every ARF I have seen was loose. Tighten them down and be sure they do not bind and every 10 flights or so check them. Do the same with the elevator servo. Once checked, re-attach arms to the swash. Turn on the radio and then the helo and be sure the trims are centered. Check your Swash plate and ensure it is level front to back and side to side and even at the 8 and 2 o'clock etc.

Next check the washout assy. Those screws are usually loose and can cause the "wandering fly bar" which will make "helo all over the place" even worse, much worse. I use finger tips on my screw drivers and snug them that way. If you're gripping hard, it is too much force. You can even disconnect the upper and lower linkages to check for binding.

Next I check my main blade, pitch linkages. They also have a screw that is usually loose. Snug it down. Next just go ahead and snug down every other screw you can find, from the swash to the top of the head. Check under the swash as well. They hold the swash bearing in. Even the ball links check them as well.

Next I check the fly-bar. I cycle the right stick around and get the servos moving and make sure nothing drags. Once done you can turn off the helo/radio. It's much easier if you have a block to place under the swash plate to keep it flat while you adjust the fly bar. I usually look at it from the side and check that the fly bar paddle is level with the swash plate. If the swash is not level this check can't be done right. You can check by turning the rotor gently and looking at the angle of attack. It needs to be zero all around. Also check the fly bar links and ensure they are level with the centerline of the paddle. I just look down the fly bar trailing edge and line it up with the "molded" centerline in the link. I next grab the paddles, leading edge and trailing edge, with my finger tips and gently try and twist them. They should resist. You can get them to give but we are talking a light twist and they should stay level.

Mechanically your head should be set-up. It will, most likely, need to be trimmed slightly right aileron to compensate for the tail rotor blowing right in a hover.

You can set the main blade pitch by eye, but I picked up and inexpensive pitch gauge. -1 degrees at zero throttle and 8 Degrees at the top. You will still need to track the blades in a hover at eye level. The blade arc should be as flat as you can get it. BE VERY CAREFUL DOING THIS AS STARING AT THE ARC TOO LONG WILL CAUSE YOU TO GET DISORIENTED AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOU ARE FLYING INTO YOURSELF. Keep the looks to short ones and make sure you have a background that allows you to easily see the blade tape. Only adjust one blade. Either move one up to meet the other or move the other down. I usually move the low blade up as I already statically set the mains with a pitch gauge and am in the ball park.


Adjust your radio trim center. Tail blades should be set at about 5-7 degrees right mechanically on the tail boom no matter which gyro you are using. If the rudder moves correctly with input and the helo spins once your in the air then the gyro switch is reversed. With a dual rate gyro I always set up rate first to get my tail blade angle set mechanically. I'm not sure if your Esky gyro, extra lead, can remotely control the gain from the 5th channel or just switches it back and forth from rate to heading hold. The Esky HH's I have seen respond well at about 60-80% gain on the adjustment. You really need a good hover to test the gain. The quick way is too get it into a hover, if it wags back and forth, too much gain. If it doesn't, hover and move the rudder/helo 45 degrees. When it stops, it shouldn't wag. If it does, back it down some more, a little at a time. A real test is to hover and hit the throttle 30% more than hover and it shouldn't wag under load. Just do the hover check for now.

Eating the servo: HH gyros "creep" when armed. It can be made to stay centered with sub trim but also be sure the gyro has had time to compensate for the temperature. IE A/C to hot outdoors. The instructions explain all of this. The Belt's rudder, servo arm is too long and needs to be changed with one that is shorter. At full deflection it binds which will eat a servo over time. If you leave the stock arm on when the servo creeps to one side it will bind and eat the servo by overheating the servo motor. I have seen them melt the case. This is why when servicing the head or anything else with the radio on, it is best to disconnect the rudder servo with a HH gyro.

If you have the “silver”, rate gyro make sure your rudder trim is at center and the servo have about 5-7 degrees right set in it. The torque of the main blades will want to pull the helo’s nose to the left. You need to compensate by putting a little right in at center trim. Loosen the tail servo mounts so it can slide on the boom and slide the servo so it has some right set into it. You need to hover the helo to find the right setting for this. Just hover the helo and see if the nose will stay somewhat pointed straight. If it moves “slightly” to one side and can be trimmed to center, then you are GTG. It all depends on how picky you are. Just remember that all gyros creep a bit during flight and will need slight trim adjustments as you fly through a battery pack.

Setting the gyro gain: I usually start with 70% and hover with that to check the sensitivity. You can either hover and bump the throttle up to see if the gyro holds(no wag) under the torque applied(my choice) or you can hover and quickly move the rudder to 45 degrees and release to see if it wags when the gyro regains control. Either way is effective. I will keep turning up the gain until I see a wag and then back off slightly and then it is set. Between the gyro set-up and rudder center adjustment can use a whole pack.
Old 08-18-2008, 05:21 PM
  #10  
Helinewbie1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Union, MO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

Thank you all for your help...... Sounds like great instructions/advice let me digest and apply the info that Chris wrote. I liked the analagy of the mirror and marble I'll have to try that. The Heli is wanting to spin clockwise looking dwn at it. Even with the servo against the chasis and the trim set all the way. Actualy when I adjusted the servo up against the chasis it got better the heli didn't spin as much and with the trim set all the way it is better but it still wants to spin unless I use the stick. Don't always have the time to tweek on the heli as I'd like let me apply some of this and I'll get back Thanks.................
Old 08-18-2008, 05:39 PM
  #11  
Druss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

until you get some head rotor speed up the heli will spin unless you use the rudder stick to correct. If you haven't already, look up radds school of rotory flight and follow those instructuions. You'll then understand why the heli wants to rotate and slide left.
Old 08-18-2008, 06:28 PM
  #12  
inv|s|ble
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

not trying to hijack this thread, but now i have the same problem, but its slightly different...when the copter is about 2 inches off the ground, it doesnt spin much, but once i get above that, the tail takes off spinning clockwise, ive ran the servo in, and out, trim all the way to each side, and it still does it..belt isnt loose, nor too tight...
Old 08-18-2008, 07:36 PM
  #13  
jmann71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Royersford , PA
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

try playing with gyro gain, little adjustment. sounds like you need to turn it up. otherwise it may be going on you.
Old 08-20-2008, 03:40 PM
  #14  
tippy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Town Creek, AL
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!


ORIGINAL: inv|s|ble

not trying to hijack this thread, but now i have the same problem, but its slightly different...when the copter is about 2 inches off the ground, it doesnt spin much, but once i get above that, the tail takes off spinning clockwise, ive ran the servo in, and out, trim all the way to each side, and it still does it..belt isnt loose, nor too tight...
gyro reversed ???

gyro reversed and rudder reversed are two different things. rudder reversed simply means the rudder response is backwards to stick responsed. gyro reversed is gyro response is backwards to the needed servo response. IE heli YAWS nose left ... gyro responds with more nose left ... resulting an uncontrollable YAW (spin).

Do a gyro response check.
Old 08-21-2008, 12:19 AM
  #15  
inv|s|ble
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Belt CP Spinning Help!

my problem seems to be the cog for the belt for the tail belt...i was looking over my helicopter, and moved the tail, and it moved too easily, with the blades in the blade holder...turns out when i landed hard in the grass, and had a bit stuck on the tail, it must have stopped the tail, and stripped the gear...thankfully i have another from a recent tail drive gear replacement...

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.