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Outdoor Co-Axial

Old 05-13-2009, 07:44 PM
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richarddaily
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Default Outdoor Co-Axial

I am interested in getting a Co-Axial for outdoor flying. I currently have a CX3 but it is very hard to fly in to slightest breeze.
I am looking at the Walkera 53#8. Does anyone have experience with this Heli outdoors?
Are there any other suggestions for a good outdoor flyer right out of the box? I dont want to pay another $100-$200 in hop-ups to get good outdoor performance.
Old 05-13-2009, 08:21 PM
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mlthmp
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I've been told the BOL (Big Outdoor Lama) from Esky is great outside. Powered by two 370 motors I think.

http://www.xheli.com/esbicolarche.html
Old 05-13-2009, 08:49 PM
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richarddaily
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I have seen a lot of info on the Esky forum that talks about the BOL motors shutting down due to high temps resualting in crashes. Looks like most BOL owners are replacing the stock motors to eliminate this high temp shutdown problem. I am looking for an out of the box Heli that flies well out doors.
Old 05-14-2009, 02:09 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I dunno then

I can fly my CX2 outdoors but its hardly considered stock. Same with my Lama V4 (although not as modified)The BOL is the only "outdoor" co-axil heli I know of. Sorry.
Old 05-14-2009, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

For 95% of us noob pilots....there is no stock outdoor co-axial that exists on the planet. Period!

Only folks with super modded heli's (spending $100 over and above original cost of heli) and tons of experience can fly outside with their co-ax and actually have fun with it without crashing.

For me in FLorida on the coast, it's 5 to 10 mph most days. My lama v4 is modded out as described above and I have a hard time with it outdoors at 5 mph. I can keep it in the air for a few minutes at a time and a gust usually does me in. I fly low and over grass so nothing ever breaks on me and it's usually frustrating. So I fly it in my garage and screw around doing figure 8s and trying to land on really small landing surfaces to keep it challenging.

I have two different 450 sized helis that I fly in 10 mph no sweat and those are a freakin blast.
Old 05-14-2009, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I'm thinking of the CX3 also for indoor/outdoor flight but it seems that co-axial's generally don't fly well in any kind of breeze. I can't help thinking the Hirobo Quark may be better suited for indoor and outdoor use?
Old 05-19-2009, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

New member here. It is my impression (based on reading a lot of forums over the past 5 months) that the larger a Co-Ax is, the better it will handle the wind. Still probably not as good as single rotor, but still larger is better.

Have you seen the new Walkera 400 size Co-Ax!!!


http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=Z5lmam400D
Old 05-19-2009, 08:49 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

New member here. It is my impression (based on reading a lot of forums over the past 5 months) that the larger a Co-Ax is, the better it will handle the wind. Still probably not as good as single rotor, but still larger is better.

Have you seen the new Walkera 400 size Co-Ax!!!


http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=Z5lmam400D
I had not seen the new Lama 400 until now. Thanks for the link, it looks pretty nice.

Old 05-19-2009, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

New member here. It is my impression (based on reading a lot of forums over the past 5 months) that the larger a Co-Ax is, the better it will handle the wind. Still probably not as good as single rotor, but still larger is better.

Have you seen the new Walkera 400 size Co-Ax!!!


http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=Z5lmam400D
The opposite is true. A stock coax has no ability to handle wind because the upper rotor cancels the movement authority created by the lower rotor. Abigger coax just presentsa bigger profile for the wind to catch. The only reason those large coaxes are billed as outdoor helisis they are too big for indoors. You never see any mention of them handling wind. If you think bigger is better, try the Walkera 38, they don't come bigger than that in a coax. Iguarantee it will be a real education in coax capabilities, if nothing else.

If you want a heli you can fly indoors and still performs well in wind,buy an SRBQuark.
Old 05-20-2009, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

Maybe I have misunderstood.  I guess what I have read says that larger helis are more stable, not necessarily better in wind.  I must have connected the two incorrectly.

Has anyone flown larger Co-Ax?  I'd love to hear how they compare to smaller Co-Ax, outdoors?  I think I already know how they compare to single rotor.
Old 05-20-2009, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

Personally, Istarted with a Blade MCX but tried it outdoors once and realized Ineed something with more power for outside. Ihave considered the Blade CX3 but hear that it doesn't do well outside either. So I believe, like Balr14 said , coaxials are just not meant for outside flying unless it is perfectly calm with zero wind.

Since zero wind conditions are rare, and Iwould like to fly as much as possible outside and inside too, Idecided the SRBQuark is the only way to go IMO. The only downside to it (if anything) might be the FMtransmitter compared to the 2.4ghz models. I still feel that that drawbacks of the FM signal are strongly offset by the performance of the Quark (from what I have read).
Old 05-20-2009, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I have owned (or still own) the Walkera 5#6, E-Sky Lama V4, Helimax Axe CX, Walkera 53(big coax) and Walkera 38(Trex 450 size tandem coax). Of all of these, the one that handles the best outside in a little wind, is the Helimax Axe CX. Unfortunately the Axe CX is fragile, prone to blade strikes and there are no upgrades available for it. The Lama V4 has lots of upgrades that makeit handle a little wind fairly well, at least with regard toforward flight. The big Walkeras can be weighted toprovide decent forward authority authority as well. The cost of the coax heli, decent extended shafts, upgraded motors, heatsinks, new adjustable stabilizer bar, canopy, better blades, better landing skids, battery holderand tailboom mods adds up to about $250. You've still got a coax heli that's never going to havea lot ofmovement authority in any wind, brushed motors that wear out and weak electronics. For $330 youcan buy an SRBQuark and forget all of that foolishness and just fly.

Flying a stock coax outdoors is like flying the Goodyear blimp.At best, flying a modified coaxoutdoors is like handling a sailboat;you can do it if you learn how to use the wind.
Old 05-20-2009, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial



Ihave theE-SKY BIG Lama.



The story remains the same Like most people, my helicopter is an investment and while I wouldn't mind progressing from a co-axial to a FP and then a CP heli. I don't want to leave my older helis in the closet collecting dust after graduating to a CP heli. I was also tired of replacing the carbon brushed motors every 2 dozen full flights at $16.99(USD) a pop for a pair of 370 carbon brushed motors.



The twin brushless motors also addresses a major problem with the E-SKY BIG Lama stock motors.These 370 carbon brushed stock motors heated up very fast and each motor comes with a thermal fuse mounted on the motor top. When the heat thresold was met and your heli is in mid-air, the motor(s) willl stop and you will have an uncontrollable crash resulting in broken parts and more money down the toliet. The twin brusless motors stay warm to the touch even after flying. So effectively, you can fly all day just by swapping the LIPO Battery out of the new LIPO tray.



The second problem was the cheesy stock landing gear. We fixed that with the famous Super Skids 400 landing gear system used on 350-400 helis. Then we found a battery tray that when used with the super skids 400 landing gear system can take the wider and standard 11.1v LIPO Batteries. This allowed us to mount an 11.1volt 1,000Mah 15c LIPO resulting in longer flight times of 10 minutes.



The third problem was the very brittle stock blades. The blades crack easy. So, we use the very flexible yet strong Airy Blades II and they are great especially on this brushless heli becuase it can withstand the X-treme flying. Yes, X-treme flying on a Co-axial heli. This heli weighs in at 14 ounces and the thrust is unbelievable.



Anyway, setting aside the limitations of a co-axial. One should not compare it to a 4-channel FP or 6-channel CP heli as the design architecture is totally different and are meant for different levels of heli user experience. Below is a video of the modfied E-SKY BIG Lama with twin brushless motors. No more heat problems or sudden mid-air stops because of a therma fuse.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX-tAA9s1U0[/youtube]



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Old 05-20-2009, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

Ok Balr, I understand now about Co-Ax.  Thanks for straightening me out.

One more question.  Hopefully this isn't too far from the original subject.

I"ve heard other good comments about the Quark. What/how is it that makes it easier for beginners to fly than other similar-sized single rotor helis?  I have tried Honey Bee FP and that thing is all over the place.
Old 05-20-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

Ok Balr, I understand now about Co-Ax. Thanks for straightening me out.

One more question. Hopefully this isn't too far from the original subject.

I"ve heard other good comments about the Quark. What/how is it that makes it easier for beginners to fly than other similar-sized single rotor helis? I have tried Honey Bee FP and that thing is all over the place.
If you check the Quark thread here or at RC Groups you will see many people who failed to be able tofly other FPor CPhelis,just like you. They all fly Quarks. It hasa very unusual and uniquehead designwith a control module. Both are highly adjustable to fit your flying expertise (or lack of same). As delivered, it's configured for beginners. The Quark weighs 7 ozand has foam blades, a brushless main motor and shaftdrive tail.It's trouble free, there's nothing to upgrade or wear out.There's nothing much you can break except the foam blades and we use 5 minute epoxy to repair them 3 or 4 times before tossing them. The foam blades, headdesign and stabilizer barmake the heli very stable, yet very quick and moreprecise than any other heli. The saying "Nothing flies like a Quark" is very true.

Most people who just have coax experience find the Quark to be a little quick handling, but they get used to it in aday or two and start learning very quickly to fly single rotor.
Old 06-14-2009, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


Just modified the E-SKY BIG Lama co-axial heli for some night flying with R/C LE.D. lights. Night flying for a co-axial is great. Check out the video below.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjLV4AKV1vI[/youtube]



Old 06-14-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: dchin62973

Just modified the E-SKY BIG Lama co-axial heli for some night flying with R/C LE.D. lights. Night flying for a co-axial is great. Ceck out the video below.

Looks great, nice job.

Old 06-16-2009, 06:26 PM
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esselte
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

esky has a lot of good coax helis as well. coax are great for starters. not sure whether you're only leaning towards coax but you might aswell check the Wasp Heli line.they have 4ch - 6 ch normal and Pro versions
Old 06-17-2009, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: Balr14


ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

New member here. It is my impression (based on reading a lot of forums over the past 5 months) that the larger a Co-Ax is, the better it will handle the wind. Still probably not as good as single rotor, but still larger is better.

Have you seen the new Walkera 400 size Co-Ax!!!


http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=Z5lmam400D
The opposite is true. A stock coax has no ability to handle wind because the upper rotor cancels the movement authority created by the lower rotor. Abigger coax just presentsa bigger profile for the wind to catch. The only reason those large coaxes are billed as outdoor helisis they are too big for indoors. You never see any mention of them handling wind. If you think bigger is better, try the Walkera 38, they don't come bigger than that in a coax. Iguarantee it will be a real education in coax capabilities, if nothing else.

If you want a heli you can fly indoors and still performs well in wind,buy an SRBQuark.
Yeah for about a $300 price increase!!!
Old 06-17-2009, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

.
Old 06-17-2009, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial


ORIGINAL: Jack10525


ORIGINAL: Balr14


ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

New member here. It is my impression (based on reading a lot of forums over the past 5 months) that the larger a Co-Ax is, the better it will handle the wind. Still probably not as good as single rotor, but still larger is better.

Have you seen the new Walkera 400 size Co-Ax!!!


http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=Z5lmam400D
The opposite is true. A stock coax has no ability to handle wind because the upper rotor cancels the movement authority created by the lower rotor. Abigger coax just presentsa bigger profile for the wind to catch. The only reason those large coaxes are billed as outdoor helisis they are too big for indoors. You never see any mention of them handling wind. If you think bigger is better, try the Walkera 38, they don't come bigger than that in a coax. Iguarantee it will be a real education in coax capabilities, if nothing else.

If you want a heli you can fly indoors and still performs well in wind,buy an SRBQuark.
Yeah for about a $300 price increase!!!
True, but you get what you pay for, and the Quark flys well indoors and outdoors.

Old 06-18-2009, 04:52 AM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

I have had my Quark outdoors and it flys very well !!
Old 06-19-2009, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: Outdoor Co-Axial

It appears putting aside some money to invest in a Quark would be a wise decision.  I have both the Lama V4 (Xtreme Productions sports conversion kit) and the outdoor Big Lama (stock with DuraBlades); anything more than a kiss your face gentle breeze and you're up & away.  I've tried my hand at a Honey Bee King II ... gave up after a short minute of glorious lift off to a parts breaking crash.  FMS simulator wasn't enough to prepare me for reality.
For the money spent in parts & repairs; upgrades, then the price of a Quark RTF becomes enticing.  I too some day would want to try my hand at a single rotor heli without the fear of $$$ crash after 1 minute of lift off!!!  

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