Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

I've been flying my Raptor 30 for almost 2 years now (since May 2001), and I haven't had that breakthrough that I need to get really good.
I can hover nose or tail in, and while viewing the right side of the model, but not when viewing the models left side. From a left side view, I eventually lose it and have to bring the tail back toward me. This has me far too scared to try inverted hovering in anything other than the simulator.
I was wondering how everyone mentally envisions your models when flying?
The two methods that I can come up with are:
1 - A 'mode' version, where you switch your mind into a different mode for each orientation, tail in (normal), nose in (reversed cyclic controls), inverted (reversed aileron and rudder), etc...
This method would have many different 'modes', and could lead to a lot of confusion when you factor in inverted flight.
2 - A generic 'orientation' method, where you imagine the control inputs affecting the movement of the nose, the disc, the tail, etc. An example would be that cyclic stick forward moves the nose down, relative to the model, not relative to myself the R/C pilot. This method would seem better for transitioning between various orientations, but I can't get my mind to picture the model like this. Every time I view the model from a different side, I lose track of what I need to do with the transmitter in order to get the model to react how I want.

How do you view the model mentally?
And what can I do to practice that method?

Adam

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

when the model is in forward flight, regardless of its orientation, forward cyclic always pushes the nose toward the rotor disk, rear cyclic always pushes the nose away from the disk. in backward flight it's easier to fly the tail than the nose, and the cyclic commands are reversed, with forward cyclic pushing the tail away from the disk and rear cyclic pushing it toward the disk. i found it easiest to learn with those expectations of response when putting in fore/aft cyclic. once you learn it through enough repetition, you don't consciously switch modes in your mind, it becomes an automatic reflex. trying new maneuvers is easy, it's recovering when you botch them that's hard. take it up high and put it into unfamiliar orientations and keep correcting until you learn the correct inputs. leave yourself enough room to bail out and, as always, get your moves wired on the sim first.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

I thought that the disc was the turning main rotor, but what you describe contradicts this. Can you clear me up on what is the disc?

Adam

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

the disc is the circular path that the main rotor makes when rotating. in reality it is the 2 main blades but their path can be viewed as a disc, so the cyclic pitch controls the angle of the pod and boom to the rotating disc.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

A common practice I used for "side in" hovering practice was to constantly move the cyclic controls while viewing the heli from the side in very small amounts so that the orientation and control direction became imbedded in my mind and my fingers. Just remember to only use small movements so you don't force yourself into a bad orientation.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

Geez, you guys think too much. I read barbarys a few times and still don't even want to try to think about that in flight, much less on the ground. I don't even think about modes when I fly. If you are having trouble with one side to you, fly the sim a bunch and get comfortable with it there. Otherwise, fly it sideways to the left and right a bunch and get comfortable that way. If you start thinking about where the nose is going to go in relation to the disc, wow, I don't even want to guess. Just fly the disc. Its a whole lot easier.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

when you're falling out of a maneuver and totally disoriented, for example sliding tail first and inverted at 45 degrees, having the reflexes to push your nose back over the top or level it out and put in negative collective can make the difference between saving it or wadding it up. it's easy to say "fly the disc" but the disc only responds relative to something that's fixed. the ground is fixed but that does you no good if you relate to it when you're inverted. the pod and boom are always fixed to the rotor disc no matter what your orientation is.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

Barbary, Sdt22, and Flyboy, it sounds like you all have methods that work for you, and I'm thankfull to you for describing them. I had never heard of "flying the disc", and I want to play around with that. Would this just be flying the model relative to the disc?
Barbary, I like your suggestion to practice recovery drills. Being able to quickly restore normal flight would be a great skill to have. But in your first post here, were you backwards when you said "forward cyclic always pushes the nose toward the rotor disk, rear cyclic always pushes the nose away from the disk"? Or do you visualize the disc as being below the body rather than above? This is what made me think that I was incorrect in what I thought the disc was.
Other than that, I guess I should fly slow pirouettes, and make sure that I can control the helicopter through the entire 360º. Once I can recover from any problem at any point in the pirouette, then I should be ready to practice inverted hover.
And Flyboy, you don't have to worry me thinking too much. I've never done that before, and I doubt I ever will.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

barbary, I guess I don't understand what you are saying. Pushing forward on the cyclic makes the nose go down, relitive to the ground if you are right side up. The way you stated it, it sounds like the nose goes up. I guess it does tip the disc down toward the nose, but if you are thinking about that, doesn't it make it harder to fly the thing? Maybe if you teach that forward cyclic makes the disc move toward the nose? Maybe I just totally missed what you are trying to say. Can you help me understand it? Always interested in someone elses point of view so I have more than one way to explain things when I am teaching others.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

when you're spooled up sitting on the ground and you put in forward cyclic, does the front of the disc get closer to the nose or farther away? that action tips the disc down in front so it's closer to the nose. if you pull back on the cyclic the disc tips backward toward the tail, or away from the nose. irrespective of the helicopter's oreientation relative to the ground, forward cyclic will always bring the nose closer to the disc and aft cyclic will always move it away from the disc. what i should have said is that when the cyclic angle changes and moves the disc toward or away from the nose, the nose follows the disc. it's true that forward cyclic pushes the nose forward relative to the disc, but that's because the change in cyclic has moved the nose closer to the disc and it wants to regain its equilibrium so it tries to tip away from the disc (flips) until you neutralize your cyclic stick. this all sounds a lot more complicated than it is, but just learning what your nose is going to do relative to your disc is something i've found to be an effective way to orient the helicopter and recover during botched maneuvers. and i still crash on occasion just like everybody else who pushes the envelope.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

Barbary, wow! That does seem complicated. Should I try to implement your method at my learning stage, or should I hold off until I'm more experienced?

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

Personally, I wouldn't try to use it. It makes sense now, but makes you think backwards about it. If you pull back, the nose will go up, and if you think of it that way, it sounds backwards. Too much thinking for learning. I don't mean for it to sound like it is wrong, because everyone has their own way to learn and teach and this seems to work well for him. I wouldn't teach it because it is very confusing to a student. Learn to fly the helicopter. You don't need to learn all the theory that goes along with what everything does. When you pull back on the stick right side up, the nose goes up.

Use what ever method works well for you, but don't try to think too much or you will never learn it. Get on G2 and fly a lot. Put the heli through the paces and put it in strange situations and learn to get out of them. There is no substitute for practice. By the time you think about where the nose is relative to the disc, the nose will be going through the disc and the dirt.

Don't take it personally barbary. I don't mean for it to sound like it does. Its just more complicated than a student can comprehend the way you are explaining it.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

i agree with you flyboy, everyone finds their own way of learning to fly and some ways seem more natural than others. when i was learning inverted, it was just easier for me to ask myself what i wanted the nose to do during any given maneuver or flight pattern. i didn't have to concern myself with the orientation of the heli relative to the ground or the sky because i was maneuvering the heli relative to itself, i.e. the nose relative to the disc. and aside from the occasional brain fart we all suffer (and yes, their associated crashes), it worked very well for me. the coolest part of this hobby, aside from the thrill of pulling off every maneuver for the first time, is the fact that with enough repetition the moves become hard-wired in your brain and you can work on developing a flying style without focusing like a laser on everything your thumbs are doing. it evolves from stress and anticipation to sheer fun.

Visualizing flight and controller inputs
 

I probably sub conciously think about it the same way you do, but I think about what the disc does relative to the heli. Helis have so much more to do when flying because you throw in the reverse pitch on the blades. You gotta love it. Keeps it interesting.