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Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

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Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Old 09-18-2002, 05:57 AM
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michael1
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Default Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Losing head speed doing flips and rolls, would like to add throttle before it bogs. Any help appreciated.
Thanks, mIke
Old 09-18-2002, 04:47 PM
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madgadget
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Default cyclic > throt mix

You did not describe the machine or it's setup since several variables come in to play. But i'll try to provide a generic answer to a generic question.
1.) The first thing U can do to minimize rotor speed decay is make sure you've got a good baseline setup and you're not trying to pull more collective than your engine and blades will.
2.) Make your collective input first! Go up a little the first few times you try this but you'll soon see that giving the coll a head start makes for a sweet tumble.
3.) And now for the good part... turn on your 8103 and depress the 2 buttons that enter edit mode, UP & DOWN. Using the UP or DOWN button cycle the menu until U get to PROG.MIX 1. For the sake of argument lets do the AIL first, (it doesn't really matter), what's important to remember is that the CYCLIC chnl be in the menu FIRST. So the two mixes we're going to do will look like this,,,

AIL>THRO mix 1 and ELEV>THRO mix 2

The 8103 has 5 point THRO curves and if you've set those up already we just want a little help when cyclic is applied so here is how I start. At full left AIL & full right AIL I add 20% THRO by using the CH buttons to move to that point on the display and the + & - DATA buttons to enter the value. The graphic on screen will show the amount of mix.

Repeat for PROG. MIX 2 and the ELEV and you're almost ready for flight testing. You're only going to need those mixes active in IDLE UP 1 & 2 so before U exit each of the mixers screen use the SELECT button to cursor down to SW selection then use the + or - DATA buttons to cycle thru the choices until it reads F-S12. That will automatically activate the mixes when you engage IDLE UP 1 or 2 . A word of CAUTION: it is possible to overdrive your THRO servo using this setup so be aware. To start with take 10% THRO off of your IDLE UP curve just to be safe at first. Then as U tune the setup you'll be able to determine how much of that to replace. Be safe have fun and I hope this helps.. madgadget Mike.
If U ain't Burnin,,, U ain't LEARNIN questions??
Old 09-19-2002, 05:48 AM
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michael1
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Default mixing

Thanks for the help, looks like it should do the trick, waiting for good weather. Checked servo monitor screen and noticed it would overdrive throttle in idle up2 so reduced throw to eliminate binding. Good tip.
Mike
Old 09-20-2002, 07:38 PM
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michael1
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Default mixing

Started with 10% and works great. No more blades loading. Constant rpm all around
Thanks, Mike
Old 09-21-2002, 03:36 AM
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Default more mixing

What are you flying MIchael if you don't mind me asking? I just started programming Mix # 3 to kick my gyro out of rate mode and in to heading hold as I change from idle 1 and 2...And check you private messages in between burnin fuel. Iwas trying to lure U to Springfield next month for what I believe will be a fun event. Here's the link anyway http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blacksheeprc/helifly.html
Old 09-21-2002, 05:57 PM
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michael1
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Default heli

Have been flying Shuttle RG, V-blades, Ms carbon tail blades, OS .32 w/weston pipe, 20-30% wildcat fuel, jr 5000t gyro. KSJ yellow paddles. Other than a couple small upgrades it is stock.
Learning flips, stall turns, and some FAI maneuvers. Been flying about a year. Will check my calender to see if I can make your meet. Thanks for the invitation.
Mike
Old 09-21-2002, 05:59 PM
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Default What you're flyin

Sounds like a nice machine, well equipd too.
Old 09-21-2002, 08:56 PM
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KevinBourland
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Default Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Sorry for being off subject, but Madgadget, noticed whereyou are from, can you tell me of any LHS in your area which actually caters to heli's? I am from Springfield,IL and find myself in your area on weekend "getaways" (married life....) Been to Scheafers....... nice place, but lacking in the heli dept. Also where do you all fly?
Thanks for your time!

Oh, this info well help me out too, I also fly with 8103


Kevin
Old 09-21-2002, 09:26 PM
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madgadget
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Default LHS

Mark Twain hobby In St.. Charles( a burb across the bridge from STL has started to carry the JR Venture and associated parts. But thats about it. Those who are not faint of heart fly at a public parks field Buder Park off HWY 44 in Fenton. I'm almost ashamed to say I don't know where the St. Louis Whirlybirds fly but it's not far from Buder park. If memory serves me they are at the legal minimum from one another. Any of the guys at the Schaefers on Gravois can direct you. They recently closed thier inner city store. Should you be near the north end of town close to the airport and casinos let me know I fly at a private field when soccer brats are not present or The Spirits of STL RC Club is very close to where I live...
Old 09-22-2002, 01:32 AM
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Lift
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Default Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Guys,
Don't forget the that the JR8103 will OVERDRIVE the throttle servo and bind up with cyclic mixing. Failure to prevent this can be costly.

I use the Sub-Trim trick and it works for me. Some use RC car servo savers on throttle but what ever floats your boat.

If you use the Sub-Trim trick then do this:
1) Pop the ball link of the throttle servo arm.
2) Go to your Subtrim function and drive the the number up till the throttle servo quits moving.
3) Now, setup your linkage again and verify that you are not binding.
4) Go fly an have fun!

I didn't see it mentioned above so I wanted to advise you all of this. Mike Prewitt has a good write up on it at:
http://www.raptortechnique.com/throttlemix.htm
Old 09-22-2002, 09:26 AM
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madgadget
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Default Overdrive

Thanks Payton, I couldn't remember where I had read that solution. What Michael's doing now will work but what you refer to is a more elegant solution. I think Rick Hayes from JR set mine up back in June and I haven't really looked at that setup. I'm flying with expo on throt and less and less mix. madgadget Mike
Old 09-23-2002, 11:21 AM
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jimm
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Default Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Would these instructions for setting cyclic/throttle mix be the same for an X-347 as well? Or would it be different?

Thanks
Jim
Old 09-23-2002, 02:00 PM
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Lift
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Default Mixing: cyclic-throttle w/8103

Jim,
I cannot comment because I no nothing about the 347 series. But, go ahead and setup you cyclic mixing using the general technique as listed on M. Prewitt's site and see if it binds. If so, then try the subtrim trick.

Just have to check it yourself. Good luck!
Old 09-23-2002, 02:19 PM
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madgadget
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Default cyclic mixing

Yeah,,, what he said.

If U ain't Burnin, U ain't Learnin madgadget Mike

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