bilboa

Speak for yourself. I've only been flying helis since January, completely self-taught except of course for the help I've gotten on these forums. I've been learning with the PhoenixRC sim and mostly on a Blade CP Pro, and I've now gone about 45 flights without a crash, and have been regularly practicing loops, rolls, fast backward flight, and of course working on getting my FF more precise. Hovering in all orientations upright is easy as well. I spent $250 for the BCPP, and probably $100 to $150 on replacement parts from the 5 crashes I've had. Of course now I've gone and spent more recently on a computer radio and upgrading the motor to a brushless, but that was optional, the stock stuff was still working fine. So teaching oneself is an option, especially with the existence of forums like this, if you're methodical about using a simulator and learning gradually, and learn how to setup the helicopter correctly, which I've also been able to do, at least well enough to have fun with my helli, by reading. So I've spent much less so far than I would have if I'd started out with a bigger heli, and have been enjoying the Blade CP Pro immensely. I suppose if I knew 5 months ago how into this I was going to get I might have started right out with a Trex or something, but I didn't know that then. That's the same situation a lot of people are in, so I don't think it really makes sense to insist that the only reasonable way to go is to start right out spending $1000 minimum on a Raptor setup or similar. I think that's the point BIGMIG was trying to make.

WhtBronco

Well after about 3 years of heli flying and currently owning a Raptor 50, T-Rex 450, Blade CP and Blade CX. I would suggest that the Blade CX, coaxial heli, is good to learn the first few very basic skills. Hovering orietation and the sticks, but nothing more. I even blew it up twice in the air flying backwards figure 8's. So I gave it to my kids, who fly planes.

However, the coaxial helis are so limited that you can't learn much with them so I always recommend a good sim for learning.

I learned to hover on my own as a teenager, but never got past hovering due to fear. 11-12 years later I got my Raptor 50, after having spent 2 years on the sim I was doing nose in on the first flight, forward flight on flight 5 and loops and rolls by flight 7.

My kids learned to fly planes on the sim at age 4 for both of them. 5 years later my 9 year old has still not crashed and we still fly the sim often and together.

A sim is the best way to learn IMO hands down. Then move on to a decent size heli, I suggest the Raptor 50.


Oh a side note, a buddy of mine bought a Blade CX and mastered it quickly. Then bought a T-Rex and could sorta hover it when I was talking to him. The first time he tried to fly it on his own he completely destroyed it. He has a nice sim, but doesn't like it and is having a hard time learning as a result. Money is not the problem for him nor is fear of crashing.

Find help and get a sim.

blade_killer

sorry, 2 years on a sim without ever flying the real thing??

I'm not that dedicated so maybe, if I have to spend years on a sim before I can actually fly a heli, this hobbie isnt for me.

I understand practice practice, but good god, who wants to play a game for 2 years before playing with the real thing???

or did I miss read that?

archiebald

I am sure that is not how he intended it.

I did my first flying on the old CSM9 sim about 10 years ago before flying my Kyosho Nexus for the first time. Never did crash it, despite being self taught. However, it did go on the shelf for some years while I enjoyed watching my daughter grow up.

Then a couple of years ago I dusted it off and bought a new sim. Practised every evening for about 3 weeks before I took the old Nexus to the club I joined.

Again, I never crashed it, but worn out parts were impossible to find so I bought my first Raptor 50 and for the first 100 flights was crash free.


Its all down to the sim, but I will admit to having a co-axial Hirobo Lama that just gets used indoors on those rainy days.

With a good sim, even a total non-coordinated noob should be able to safely hover a 50 sized machine after maybe 10~20 hours of actual sim time I would guess.

Oh, and by the way, an RC simulator program cannot in any way be considered a "game". It is a training tool.

RCar

I have no idea what I'm looking for, because I don't know what's out there. I just decided that I wanted to buy a helicopter and start flying. I don't know if I'll like it or not, but I sure want to give the hobby a chance. I know that I don't want to spend more than $200 and I want an RTF.

A while ago when I first started with nitro cars, I got screwed by the local hobby shop into buying a crappy chinese truck that broke every 2 minutes. I almost hated the hobby because I thought that every car was like that one. After buying a Traxxas Revo 3.3 and an HPI RS4 3 18SS, I go to the track almost every day to run my cars, and when they brake I enjoy fixing them very much.

My point is, I don't want to buy a crappy helicopter that will make me dislike flying, but I also don't want the most expensive/professional one because I don't know if I'll be staying into flying forever. But then again, maybe I'll love flying. Who knows...

blade_killer

I still say the Blade CX2.....

02nelsc

go into your local hobby shop find the best tail rotor craft YOU can afford, and make sure the hobby shop stocks all the most breakable parts (rotors, main shaft...ect ect). and buy it put your training skids on and sit it on the ground now increase the throttle until it gets light on the skids and try and keep it in one spot, this will get you familier with the controlls, the biggest mistake i made was lifting off before i got familier with the sticks and what they do...

most off all take it SLOW do not rush that is just a disaster waiting to happen, after a few weeks you dont like the hobby then it is no big lose, but if you like it and decide to get a nitro then it will be easyier for you to get the bigger heli off the ground for all the sticks are the same, also the bigger craft will react a little less sensative then the little craft, so all in all it will fly better.

my main advice is not to get counter rotating blade helis,,, yes they are easyier to fly but they will beifit you very little such as BHTBronco said they are so limited, there are plenty of stable smaller helis out there that will benifit you more.

RCar

OK then, what's a good RTF tail rotor craft? Forget my local hobby shop. I don't trust them. I prefer ordering parts from the internet. They are cheaper there.

chazdraves

Well, you can get a Blade CP for about $219 ready-to-fly. I can only say what I've already said about them (and any tail rotor in that price range), but they will certainly fly if you have the patience. Heck, Nick Maxwell still flies a Blade CP Pro for whatever reason and makes it look easy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=nick+maxwell

I haven't looked through the RCU classifieds, but you might be able to snag a deal there on something?

That's probably your best bet if you intend to "test the water", but do take it's flight characteristics with a grain of salt as it does not represent the larger heli's available nor does it even resemble a TREX in the air.

Good luck!
- Chaz

RCar

I did a little search and I found plenty of RTF helis on good prices. Any of these any good?

Nitroplanes

http://www.nitroplanes.com/rag26ccrarec.html Raptor G2 6-Channel3D CCPM
http://www.nitroplanes.com/new6exea3dcc.html New 6-Channel ExceedRC Eagle-50 3D CCPM
http://www.nitroplanes.com/es6cchocp2ra.html ESky 6-Channel CCPM HoneyBee CP2
http://www.nitroplanes.com/6wadr22ein3d.html 6-Channel Dragonfly 22E Intruder 3D CCPM

http://www.nitroplanes.com/73daewadr60e.html 7-Channel 3D Aerobatic Walkera DragonFly #60
http://www.nitroplanes.com/mimi73daewa5.html 7-Channel 3D Aerobatic Walkera #68

I also found these on TowerHobbies

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJDJ1&P=7 Global EvoFlight Sabre RTF Heli
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHEA8&P=7 GWS Mini Dragonfly II RTF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXMDN9**&P=7 Heli-Max RotoFly EX Mini EP RTF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXMHD1**&P=7 Heli-Max Axe CP Mini EP RTF

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

RCar:

Save your money. Forget about ARF tail rotor helicopters. Spend your money on a simulator. If you do get hooked on helicopters, then the simulator will serve you extremely well. If you don't like helicopters, you still have a "game" (as so many people here have called them ). Or plain and simple you could just out it up for sale. It is being done here and in the "other" forums as well.

It is starting to sound to me that you are looking for instant gratification. You keep asking for ARF helicopters, and that is not the best route either. At some point you WILL crash and going thru the process of assembling the helicopter is another part of the learning experience. Unless you go the coaxial route, instant gratification WILL NOT HAPPEN with helicopters.

Back in 1989 when I was starting to learn to fly helis, I had no money for simulators. I was a student just starting college (no $$). It took me over three years of dedicated practice to be able to push the sticks and fly forward. Fear of crashing prevented me from progressing. With the newest breed of simulators AND coaching from an instructor or even another pilot, that timeframe can be reduced to just weeks, as I noted a few post ago about my flying buddy.

I can see now from the models listed on your post, where you want to go. I cannot tell you how and where to spend your money, so it's up to you what you do with the 2 pages of advise you received based on your question.

Happy flying!

Rafael

RCar

The models listed in my previous post are just search results. I have no idea what their specs mean. That's why I need help choosing. I hear you, and I will get a simulator. But I wont be buying any simulator software unless I know exactly which helicopter to get first. I need your expert advice. What should I get for $200, RTF and tail rotor?

If I crash, then I'll learn to fix it, as I did with my cars. And when I'm comfortable enough, then I'll buy a kit (again, as I did with my cars)

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Why do you limit yourself that way. Need I tell you that on the simulator you can fly those coaxial, twin rotor helicopters? AND you can ALSO fly a decked out full 3D capable 90 sized monster? AND everything in-between?

Then a Blade CP or CP Pro is in your future. I do not have too much experience with those helicopters listed above. Those are fairly new to the heli scene. I have dealt with the Walkera line and found their electronics to be hit and miss on quality. I recommend that you go to this site: [link=http://www.runryder.net/helicopter/f52p1/]"Other Furum" Electric page[/link] and browse thru its pages and find the sub-category for the heli that would interest you. Given RCU rules, I cannot link you to the home-page of a competing site, but I can link you to a sub-section (electrics) of the same site. You could also do a search here in RCU and find out about the pros and cons of the different helis listed on your post.

Rafael

chazdraves

Or, how 'bout this idea:

For $30 you can pick yourself a copy of the ClearView simulator, then you just grab a TX from someone that's got one and a cable to hook it to your PC and fly the day away. At the end of it, you should have a good feel for whether you want one or not and you're only $30 in? THEN you can make the decision of how big/or at all.

Just a thought.
- Chaz

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

I would not recommend a full blown helicopter to a beginner....EVER.
For one, your gonna have to build it which isnt too difficult, but then the new guy has to set it up correctly, trim it, and program it in his radio. You're chances of doing this correctly with no prior experience is slim to none. I cant count how many new heli pilots have come to me asking me to help them set up their helicopter and program it in the radio.

Do yourself a favor. Dont overlook the coaxial helicopters. Some call them toys, but they are invaluable learning tools.

Helis are similar to planes. You dont start off with a 40% comp-arf extra...you start with a trainer.
The coaxial helicopters are designed as trainers. While they have limited aerobatic abilities, they are designed to teach you the basics.

Learning orientation is extremely important. The coaxial helis allow you to learn orientation without having to worry about stability. Once youve learned the orientation with the coax, then move up to a single rotor head helicopter. The orientation skills you will have learned with the coax, are VERY benificial when you move up.

Top of the line coax....the Hirobo XRB series. If you want to save some dough, the Blade CX is probably the best bang for the buck. I dont recommend the cheaper coaxial heli's as the quality is poor, and they tend to have other issues.

Also follow RADDS lessons. Its the best way to learn. I dont agree with all of his stuff, but his lessons are about flawless.

123Splat

RC,

Rafael and Chaz sound like they know what they are talking about.

But you are YOU, you have to make your own decisions.

Just about any way you go, you are going to spend some money, break something (and hopfully learn something), spend some more money, and probablly break something else.

Best advice I have heard here is find someone who has already made the mistakes, and HAS LEARNED from them, to understand what you think you want to do and then guide you along.

Simulator sounds like a good idea and I would strongly advize you to consider a good one (Did not do me much good, but I went the cheap way and I don't like video games).

I thought one of those 'AirHogs' would be fun, couldn't get squat out of it, gave it to teenage grandson and an hour later, he was flying it around me like crazy.

I thought that was bunk so I got me a Heli-Max Axe CP RTF. I couldn't fly it for $#@% in the start, I still can't, but I'm learning.... $200 for the bird, $150+ for the Heading Hold Gyro setup (hovers like a rock). And get this, for another $250, or so, I can get a blackbox (called 'Stabilizer') that senses the horizion with IR lasers and actually will fly the bird, in hover, itself. And I thought I didn't want to go the ARF route because it would cost too much to get the electronics........ I'm over 50, way over, and I still can't fly the Axe very well, but, like I said, I'm learning, I love my Axe, and the grandson can save up and buy his own, he ain't gettin' mine.

If you aren't willing to suffer some setbacks and spend some money, maybe this isn't the sport for you ( I would find it difficult to believe that you don't have the same thing with the R/C cars). I, personally, don't believe that any newbie would be able to pick up an out of the box RTF and not have some problems with it.

As good, or knowledgable, as he may be, I, for one, don't think Rafael has any right to tell anyone that thier opinion is worthless, They maybe dead wrong, but it is thier opinion and it has some value. MHO

You want something stable out of the box? try a full size Sikorsky SeaKing (rattle your brains out, but hover like a rock,,, in most winds)

Whatever you choose, go slow and learn from your experiences, try to get some help setting it up and balancing it, and you will have fun with it. That is what it is all about. HOBBY, remenber. Go as far with it as YOU want to go. You only got ONE r/c car? I would bet not. I, again for one, don't intend to stay with the Axe forever, but it is fine for now, for me. (this not intended to be a testamony for Heli-Max, or thier products. YOU can also get a BLADE CP or there are a bunch more brands of "Mini Electrics" out there. You could also go Nitro, if that's what you want.

I wanted CP, did not want the wife to see me crumple a $1,000 worth of "toy", so I went with what I thought was the sturdiest electric RTF. (most everybody, but Walkera, says that the Walkera's are junk, to put it politely)

Hope you get out of this still wanting to fly a heli, and manage to get one and have fun with it.
Good Luck
Splat

s_mcflurry

*Warning: Long-winded post*

RCar, sounds like we're in the same boat (or other vehicle of your liking)...

I was fortunate that I came into R/C choppers with the right expectations. I just enjoy the concept of the helicopter - it's amazing to me that they fly at all really - and I wanted to know more about them. Way, way before the thought of "I'm going to buy an R/C helicopter" ever popped into my head, I spent a little while reading about them, understanding how they work, knowing what they can do and can't do. I never got too deep into it, but I understood the role of the tail rotor, what collective and cyclic were, learned about autorotation, dissymmetry of lift, etc... So, the day that I impulsively walked into the hobby shop and thought, "Do I want the Sabre RTF for the Axe CP RTF?" I knew more or less what I was getting into. To clarify, I had no idea what I needed to look for in an R/C chopper, necessarily, but I did know that "RTF" referred to the helicopter and not to the pilot.

It's been a couple of months now and I've had three crashes, spent about $100 (on top of the original $200), I'm hovering successfully, and just recently upgraded to LiPo batteries. All this sans simulator, coaxial chopper, and instructor. Would I be further ahead in my learning process had I used any of those learning tools? Probably. Who knows. I'm just saying (one voice in a crowd of many) that it's possible without them.

Having said all that...know what you're getting into. Helicopters are inherently unstable and will require constant input (more or less) to keep it aloft. Expecting to rip the throttle and end up in a perfect hover on your first flight will result in your first crash. Expect lots of work, lots of time, lots of patience, and you'll be okay. Be familiar with the concepts if you're not already, then after that, it's just a matter of learning the tactile part once you get your hands on the R/C.

As for recommendations, I have an Axe CP that I'm enjoying a lot. I think you should just start off with a non-coaxial electric, though, so that you can learning roll and pitch as well. I will have to warn you that the Axe CP has expensive replacement parts, so you may want to consider the comparable Blade CP. Oh, and the CP stands for 'collective pitch', which you may or may not want to consider just yet.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Ok, Maybe the word "worthless" was a little harsh and insensitive. But a newbie contradicting what I'm saying because he's been flying for 1 1/2 months is pretty arrogant too.

I apologize to BIGMIG for being harsh and insensitive. I'll go to my corner now. [:-]

After all if a poll was made right now coaxial electrics seem to be gaining popularity, on this thread and everywhere else. And after truly finding out RCar's budget and intentions i have very little else to say.

Rafael

123Splat

Come out of your corner, Great One. And please forgive my jumping your case. I, for one (uh, oh, here we go again...), value your opinions and knowledge as much as anybody else's that I've read. You have good info to pass along and I appreciate your doing so.

RC,

Axe CP is a sturdy bird. I can prove it. My greatest flying skill, at present, is banging it into things. The parts are more expensive, and seem, for the most part, to be single source. If I can't Kill it, that says alot for the bird. There are alternative parts that can be used (check out the thread by the same name). Airframe can take a lot more abuse than the Blade (I have killed mine.....). And!!! If you don't like it or decide to move up, you can always put it up for sale and recoup some of your expenses.

Good Flying to All
RC, go for it! you will, most likely, be glad you did.

BIGMIG

Wow,I didn't think giving a personel opinion on my own experience trying to fly a helicopter would bring out such hard feelings toward a new flyer.I was taught a little more respect when I grew up.I can also read and understand what I read.
Some thing that BTAMXX and RAFAEL23CC may want to pratice up on.I'm sorry to the rest of the guys here on this forum all this took place.It will end here.I will stay clear of this forum. Thanks to all the others,and keep flying. BIGMIG

02nelsc

http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=144610

There you go that is a blade CP RTF i believe that this will be the best craft you can buy for your money, just a thought you may want to look at a fixed pitch model they are regared as generaly stronger and will survive the crashes a lot better. also they are cheaper and alot easyer to set up, they are what i started on and it survived maney crashes, see link, that heli may be alright for you, now the decicion is up to you

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHEA8&P=0

w.pasman

Assuming by "serious" you mean a heli with 550mm blades or larger and that you want to fly outdoors.
I would suggest to get a sim and do serious training on hover figures in all orientations.
Check the local flying club what helis they fly, particularly in the 30 - 50 size range.
Get their advice on which 30-50 size they suggest and what help they can give you to get started.

I would suggest a methanol/nitro engine, as you want to do flying, not wait on the charger and/or spend lots on batteries. Good batteries for 30-50 size are still pretty $$$

stinkbeetle

G'day to all and especially RCar,

I just wanted to take the time to introduce myself and hopefully help out RCar in the process.

I'm only fairly new to this hobby myself and have been looking for a good forum to extend my knowledge,and after seeing all the feedback given to RCar i thought this is the one for me.

I started out much like "s mcflurry", reading magazines and info on the web and kind of had a basic idea of what i wanted.
My collection first started with a Twister Bell coaxial heli, much like the Blade CX which i bought on my honeymoon much to my wife's disgust I found the Bell a little challenging at first but as time went by (only a day or so) i got better and better at not only flying it but triming it too, as it is now i can take it up inside the shed at work and take my hands off the controller for a good 30-40 seconds before it starts to slowly wander away, however to get this sort of stability you do need to have zero wind and be well clear of any obstacles that can effect the downwash.

After mastering the little Bell i was confident that i was ready to take a step forward and after some begging and pleading was given the go ahead. I went to my local hobby shop and like yourself was not very impressed by the owners attitude, he tried telling me that bigger is better (which i'm sure it is) and proceeded to show me his $2000+ (remember i'm in Australia and our dollar is worth squat) range of heli's. I pointed out that i was still a beginer and didn't feel comfortable spending so much money just yet (plus i knew what would happen to me when i got home if i did) it was about this time that he lost intrest and went to serve someone else. i walked around by myself and eventually settled on the Twister CP which i believe is much the same as the Blade CP (someone please correct me if i'm wrong) I also picked up an FMS simulator pack for only $50AUS which you can download for free online but you don't get the controller. Returning home i got straight into the CP and to my horror found it to be nothing like flying the Bell, it was alot less stable and required a lot more input. after about an hour i was very disheartened and wondered if i had made a mistake, it was then that i decided to give the simulator a go and after a bit of time practicing i thought i would give the real thing another try, and wala i could now get it off the ground and move it about a bit, it was still very unstable but at least i was getting somewhere. after more time on the sim and practicing(it really does make perfect) on the real thing i got better and better and now i am able to keep it in a steady hover and do small slow circuits which is all i really wanted as i am more into scale rather than 3D.

My latest adition as of last week is a 2nd hand JR Venture 30 which has what i believe to be a Bell407 body and is exactly what i wanted as it is a scale version of our local CQ RESQ heli that crashed off the coast in 2003, i haven't had a chance to fly it yet as i am still waiting for some parts but i hope to have it up in the air soon, then i can see if bigger really is better

All in all i hope this finds you still keen to give this great hobby a go, all the best and thanks to all for reading.

PS training legs are worth thier weight in gold.

02nelsc

stinkbeetle all the best of luck, i too almost did the same as you... started on a coaxiel and after that thing being distroyed went onto a little electric tail rotor craft and to this day it is still going and still good to learn all monovers on before i try them on my (wait for it)... my venture 30 cp... trust me stinkbeetle you will love this craft for scale it is super stable, i can lift my hands off the controller for almost 10 seconds before it slowly starts to drift of to its side. just a note though if you have the money and if your venture hasent got it already, get an os 37 for it it really brings it to life, also if you do not mind me asking how much did you pay, for i payed 850 brand new with motor (OS 37) radio (Hitec Optic 6) and head holding gyro, yes that includes the mechanics and body too pritty much everything. and that included a simulator FMS with controller all i needed to do is add fuel.. it was great. let me know how you go... P.S i am from australia too

RCar

I would like to thank everyone for their replies and advice you gave me. I decided to start with something small, see if I like flying, and then continue to something bigger. If everything goes OK, I'll be asking your advice again for a bigger helicopter very soon.

The local dealer in my country is selling the Blade CX2 for $326
I bought it off eBay for [link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330117568070&rd=1&rd=1]$147.50 plus shipping[/link].

I think I made the right decision, and got a pretty good deal too.

Thank you all again