The Best intro Heli
 

I know this thread comes up a lot but so many different ppl feel so strongly about a different heli. If anyone with experience and a non-bias opinion could tell me about a good heli to start out with and one i could keep for a while as a become a better pilot. Ive heard several different things.

1. ThunderTiger Raptor .30 --now the V2 . Ppl say this mainly b/c of its popularity and the fact that they could help me set it up and what not.

2. JR Venture CP -- Ive heard it was a good heli with an excelent manual but to me it seems the flight performance isnt as good as the Raptor or Caliber.

3. Kyosho Caliber 30--- the ppl at heliproz strongly recomend this heli to anyone starting out (what were they thinking with that canopy?:( )

4. Century Hawk -- Just recently many ppl on this forum say it is the best heli but how is the parts availability and pricing?


Thanks a lot for any help, I want to make a good decision on this heli and that doesnt even include a radio, gyro and so on :D

sorry
 

i figured out it actually does belong in this forum. :confused: oh well

The Best intro Heli
 

My completely unbiased opinion is to go with the HeliProz recomdation. Or just follow the crowd and get a Rappy V2. The Century is gaining a lot of favor but I still do not like the starting system and the vibration problem they sometimes have. The JR Venture is a great starter heli but will not take you as far the the other 3. The Centure is upgradable to a 50 which make it very atractive. One of the tried and tested opinions is to look at what others are flying in your area and what any friends are flying. They can help you with setup and if you need parts, it's nice to have a friend with parts.

The Best intro Heli
 

You should strongly consider the Hirobo Sceadu 30. It's an awesome flyer and pricing is reasonable. Parts avaliability is good and the quality is up to the Japanese standard. It can be easily upgraded to a Sceadu 50.

If I were you, I wouldn't get the JR Venture, three words: WAY TOO HEAVY. The Caliber 30 is a good choice if you don't mind the canopy. The raptor is also a good choice but if you are so into looks, I don't think the raptor is that much better looking than the Caliber, to be honest. I'm not familar with the Hawk, so no comment on that.

Go to http://www.rchelicopters.org
It has reviews on EVERYTHING you'll ever need...kits, radios, gyro, anything you can think of.

Century Hawk
 

:) and I guess this is my 400th Post! *yippy* :p

The Best intro Heli
 

All are great heli's and each has it's strong points and weaknesses. You can't go wrong with the century as it's the least expensive of the bunch. The raptor is the most popular and the caliber is said to be a great machine but does have some flaws. The venture I hear is a good heli but heavy. You always get a hundred different answers when asking what should you get. Take a look at what type of support you'll get locally and make your decision. It's your money and you have the final decision no matter what anyone suggests!

Al

The Best intro Heli
 

Since you have zippo LHS support over there (unless something has changed that I'm not aware of), your best bet is to get what your local guys are flying. Last I heard, that was the Raptor. Judging from your user name, you know Mike, yes?

If you aren't hooked up with those guys, or just want to be different, I would go with the Sceadu. It is a bit larger than the average 30, but definitely not a lead sled. And there is no controversy over parts availability. Since you'll be doing all mail-order anyway, pick your vendor.

Actually, I think the Shuttle is a better "starter" ship. but I hesitate to recommend one to a raw beginner, for this reason:

The Shuttle has been around since the mid-80s. The current iterations of the model still use many original parts. The molds for these are getting long in the tooth, and produce parts that need quite a bit of "tweaking" before they get smooth. This is no big deal- IF you know what to do. But the last one I helped a guy with (a Challenge- Hirobo's basic entry level offering) needed a LOT of tweaking, especially on the bellcranks, to get right. A newbie who doesn't know what to look for and correct would have problems.

But the Challenge comes with a most excellent training gear set-up, and that saves you the extra expense of a Roto-Pod. I am no fan of el cheapo dowels tie-wrapped to the skids; but lots of folks have learned on such an arrangement.

My big gripe with the Challenge is the tail rotor pitch change mechanism. It is the original, and it sucks. It works, but just.

I'm preparing to get an entry-level plastic machine for my grandson, so I'm going through the "what to get" quandary myself. I have enough old Concept parts, frames, etc., to build one for him. But I want to keep that "stash" intact to keep mine flying...<G>

I can't decide between a Sceadu or a Shuttle Challenge. What I'll probably end up doing is get the Challenge and the parts to put a decent tail box on it.

The best advice I can give you is GET HELP. If you have difficulty hooking up with the guys over there, I'll be glad to work with you if you don't mind the drive to Baton Rouge.

But you're smart to do some research before you buy. Another consideration is your radio. If you have someone available who can buddy-box you, then by all means get that brand of radio. And get the best radio you can. I would suggest nothing less than a Futaba 9C or JR 8103. JR has a new nine-channel (9X?) that the US distributor hasn't admitted exists yet, but it is out there.

Buddy boxing is great. It will get you past the initial terror of crashing your new toy, and give you the confidence to practice on your own. Oh, you'll still have the opportunity to crash by yourself; but at least you will already have hovered the bird and KNOW that it flies just fine, as long as you do your part...<G>

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

larksrc,
Is this Mike Moss? If so then hello from Payton in Houston!

Otherwise, hello from Payton in Houston! :D

We sure enjoy coming over for the fun-flys and always have fun. As far as helis go I think the brand name mentality similar to Ford vs Chevy gets going on when a heli suggestion thread starts. It's easy to step on toes because nobody wants to be told that their heli isn't as good as Brand X. Got it?

I have direct experience with all the helis you have listed. I have owned all but the Caliber. In my opinion you are really deciding which problem do you want instead of which heli is best. The reason is that all helis have little nuisances that have to be dealt with. Some of these are worse than others and experience helps weeding those out.

Of all the 30 & 50 helis out right now I personally recommend the Century helis. I think that after 4+ generations of refinement the Hawk has become one awesome heli for the $$. The same can be said of the Falcon 50 SE and the Raven 50. Century has ALOT of experience now with their product design and what has worked or failed. They price their products with a more than fair tag and you get ALOT of bang for the buck. The rotorhead is from the Heim days and the only companies that you don't hear about blade flutter problems is X-Cell, Robbe, and Century. They are designed and distributed here in the USA and parts supply is a non-issue. They still have parts for their very first helis.

If you are looking for a long term heli with great parts support, lots of growth potential, proven design, and low "issue" then you might want to seriously consider Century. Back in May of this year I went against the common "get a Raptor" or "the Sceadu is best" suggestions and purchased a Falcon 50 SE V2. I have been VERY impressed with the quality and performance. Since then I decided to try some of these other 50 size alternatives and I can tell you that the only 50 left in my hangar is the Falcon!

Click the "WWW" button below to see some pics.

The Best intro Heli
 

Payton,

The Hawk has a metal frame, doesn't it?

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

Steve,
There are two different flavors for the Hawk:

1) Hawk Sport - This version comes with plastic upper and lower frames. The Century plastic is a strong fiber filled material like X-Cell uses. It is the best plastic I have seen in heli use. Here is a link to the Hawk Sport specs. For $159.99 you just can't beat it:

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...port/index.htm

Check out this quick build manual for the Sport. Doesn't get any easier than this for a beginner:
http://www.centuryheli.com/support/m...uild/index.htm


2) Hawk SE(Special Edition) - This version is loaded up with CNC everything. The only item I don't care for is the wire drive. But, for learning 3D it is cheap and easy to replace. There are alot of killer features like 53 bearings, CNC metal swashplate, oilite bushed washout hub, CNC metal headblock, triple bearing tail rotor grips, CNC tail rotor hub, 550mm Hurricane CF blades, ....... This is one of those machines that will stay tight for years. Not alot of plastic to stretch or fatigue. Check the link below to see all the specs:
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...kSE/index.html

They have alot of nice upgrades like constant drive, carbon fiber torque tube, thrust bearing for main shaft bearing blocks, etc.....

These parts are all very attactively priced and of good quality. Century is not the same company they were even as little as a year ago and from what I have heard 2003 will be a shocker to the heli community. I sure enjoy my MA stuff but when it comes to value Century's products are awful tuff to overlook.

The Best intro Heli
 

Okay. I just think that metal frames are not the best thing for someone to begin with.

I've only seen a Hawk once, 'way back when they first came out. Mike H did one for the magazine, and was only lukewarm about it, so I never paid much attention after that.

Another thing is that, the only vendor I've heard more complaints about than Century is HHI. Now that other folks are carrying the Hawk line, I guess that's not a big issue.

I've tried to help two guys with Ninjas, and that was a real bad time. What a horrible POS that thing was. Guilt by association???<G>

I dunno; Phil Noel sells them now, and speaks highly of them. I have a lot of respect for his opinions, and he is much more than just another heli-monger.

I just wish the Concept was still around...

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

Steve,
In it's day the Concepts were VERY tuff to beat for value and performance. I have a friend that we CANNOT get him to get out of them. He has 30 & 60s SRX versions with alot of Zeal stuff. Nice machines but WAY to expensive when compared to todays offerings in the 30 class. Nowadays you get alot more heli and for less than what the little ole Concepts offer.

Yeah, your right. The Ninja and Hawk had some problems. But you would even recognize the Hawk I and Ninja if you compared it to the Hawk Sport/SE, Falcon 50 SE, Raven 30/50. When I took my Falcon to the local field and let the 8+ year veterans look at it they all said it's nothing like the Century products they fooled around with when the Ninja and Hawk were out. After sharing the sticks with a few of them they were VERY impressed. I flew the thing all summer, fall, and now into winter and now they are coming around asking "now how much did that thing cost?" ;)

Metal frames not for beginners? Hmmmm, I would think of it the other way around. It is ALOT easier to replace these metal frames than what you are probably thinking(total of about 7 bolts and reasonably priced). Plus, I have witnessed these things take a 150+ foot free fall that landed on the skids and the only damage was the skids, boom, blades and other usual stuff. But, the SE series helis are the only ones that come with the 2mm aircraft aluminum lower frames. The Sport version Hawk is the only one that comes with plastic lower frames. I like the upper/lower design. Make taking the heli apart very "component" like. That is radio tray removes as one whole unit, upperframes/boom one whole unit, lower frames/engine/skids, one whole unit.

I hammer my Falcon 50 SE V2 that has the metal frames and I have beat the snot out of it and the main mechs just keep on ticking! What irritated me the most about the Raptor V1 was that it almost ALWAYS busted the frames where the front landing struts bolted on. That is why the push the "frame brace." Another example of aftermarket "upgrades" that are offered to cover up a poor design. Well see if these new Raptor 30/50 V2 frames hold up any better.

Also, the start system is awesome. It uses a shaft with a dog-bone that goes down into the fan and then dis-engages when you let go. No criticle alignment needed in this assembly and it's one less component for the motor to have to turn. Very simple, very effective.

Take a look at my Yahoo Photo Album at the Falcon 50 SE V2. Knowing you have been around at this for sometime Steve I think you would be equally impressed with the quality, performance, and pricing of Century's products these days. Try to look me up at Mayday in Sulphur. I give you a shot at the sticks...... :D

http://photos.yahoo.com/payton_i

The Best intro Heli
 

Just get a Raptor 30 V2. If I had to start all over, that's what I would do.

Raptor 30 V2 + GY401 Gyro+digital servo+PCM recv+S9001s+VOlt spy+Remote glow adapter+fuel filter+Roto Pod 60 size.

Adrian

The Best intro Heli
 

Thanks for the offer, Payton; I might just take you up on it.

The thing about metal frames is that they must be changed after a good thump. I NEVER had to do a thing to my Concept frames while I was going through my learning dorks. I didn't realize that the Raptor frames were prone to breaking that easily.

I suppose a lot has to do with what KIND of plastic the frames are made from. When Kyosho switched to Chinese production in the mid-90s, the different texture of the plastic was very apparent; to me, anyway. It was more "shiny", and seemed to be on the brittle side. It didn't have that coarse texture of true fiber-reinforcement (like MA plastic parts) that the Japanese Concepts had. And now that I think about it, my Raptor had that "shiny" stuff too. But I never dumped it. In fact, I was so underwhelmed with it that I rarely flew it, and I sold it to a pal who was in desperate need of parts back a few years ago when the first parts shortage was going on.

The two Caliber 30s I've examined had this same "shiny" black plastic, which is why I haven't even considered that machine. I dunno, perhaps I'm being too picky.

So, how is the tail on the Hawk? I realize there are different versions of it; keep in mind I don't want a gussied-up, purpled-out machine; I'm looking for something for my eight year old grandson to learn on. What are the variations offered? That $159 beginner's model looks enticing, but what doesn't it have?

I'm leaning toward a Shuttle Challenge right now, even though I will have to buy the better tail parts since what it comes with is pretty miserable. But I've got an open mind; convince me!<G>

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

Ok, here`s the deal, like evey one says , everything has pros and con`s.

Im going with the vent. cp 30 , just because, went and look for what my store carred and whats easy to get parts for. Its a quick kit and every one up here knows alot about them as well with the raptors. and the kit comes with every thing you need as a trainer and it comes with additional paddels so you can move up when you get better at flying, there was an article about them in i think Rc mag. that looked promising as well.

So see what your hobby store in your area carries. and go from there , make that seletcion from that, makes it better when you can get parts for your heil right away with out ordering them :0)
and what people are flying allready,

hope that helps. pretty good info i say

The Best intro Heli
 

Yeah; except that he has no LHS that carries anything remotely connected with helicopters. In fact, I'm not sure there is an r/c hobby shop at all over there these days.

I believe this was mentioned above...<G>

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

My first bird was a Hawk SE V1 that was an ARF. The things I didn't like were things that I have seen pointed out by a few other pilots. The tail pitch lever being one of them. If it is not setup right, I.E. if it is set up like most other helis it will bind badly. Badly enough to stop it all together. Ask me how I know. Beleive me it will. And that is a design flaw that is not only dangerous, but could be gotten around. But it remains the same. I have owned 3 Century helis, and all of them were the same. The counter gear is also a problem if not set up right. The one I am talking about is the drive gear that is driven by the pinion gear. Therby transfering the power to the main gear. If the shaft on the counter gear is not locktited to the bearings, the shaft will turn inside the bearings, and will destroy the shaft. Which will also make the gear not run true at all, and will creat quite a vibration. I have a new Hawk 3 sitting here now, and the counter gear on it does not run true. And it is a brand new ARF, that has NEVER been flown. But there is nothing mentioned in the instructions about locktiteing the shaft to the bearings. Why? The lower metal frames on the SE's are cool, but they bend. And that is a pain when the time comes to fix the bird. Been there done that. Getting the engine out of my SE was a chore. Maybe they have changed it since then, but I had to pretty much remove one side of the frames to get it out. No fun at all. Wire drive on ALL of the hawks sucks!!!!!! And the tank nipple setup is a joke if you ask me. It is basicly an airplane design that I DO NOT care for at all. And the radio tray is to small to mount say a CSM gyro with your radio gear mounted in a traditional manner. There are other things that I could site, but I think I made my point. All I am saying is that the Century birds are by no means perfect. That being said I will say that the controll surfaces stayed very slop free. And I loved the way it flew. But it to had "design flaws." Century helis have come a long ways. But they do have a little further to go. That being said, I think for $159.00 the Hawk Sport is a good heli to learn on. And is not a bad machine. It wouldn't be my choice, but still would be a good choice for a young kid wanting to get into helis.

Oh and the blades that come with the SE's are NOT carbon fiber. They are hollow fiberglass blades with a bead of carbon fiber inside the blade along the leading edge. They are basicly Funkey fiberglass blades.

Sorry To Steve
 

Sorry i dont read as good as you Steve. Since your next to perfect, i did say to check what people are flying in the area and go from there as well.
Sorry to affend you with my post. . Im at work when i read this stuff. any way.

The Best intro Heli
 

Here lately I have been thinking over the question of which is the best to buy, I can only think of one. I would buy a heli that will grow with you as your experience advances.

One that can be adjusted for stable flight then for more advanced flying. The caliber offers a great CCPM or mechanical setup.

I believe the JR heli's are a great choice as well as far as being very flexible adjustment-set-up wise (Venture). The Raptor or V2 has shown it's very solid..The Century line is very affordable and another solid heli as the Sceadu-Shuttle Plus great value-Quick Learner-Pro.

Buy what you think will take you from stable smooth hovering to advanced instead of upgrading so often..There are many competing for the crown of the best and I can not say which is the best because it's all good.. ;) All the 30 sized heli's

The Best intro Heli
 

Since Brian's post above is a copy/paste from our discusssion on RR I'll include my response as well. I respect his experience and opinion but I wanted to add my reponse for those that didn't read the RR post:

********************************
BuzzinBrian,
I agree all these helis have issues. But, blade flutter is much more severe than all the little nuisances that you mentioned. Which BTW are very easily worked around:
1) Counter gear does NOT create vibrations. This has been discussed and beat to death by the Century owners. Yes, they all wobble but it is not in the axis of running AND under load they are smooth.
2) Fuel tank is a about as convienent and issue free as they come. Plus, if you wish to run a Uni-Flow setup it comes ready to mount in seconds. Changing the fuel line is easier than ANY heli I have ever owned. Yeah, it may be plank reminiscent but it works!
3) Tail pitch slider/pitch fork will contact the bell crank mounting lug if you don't watch your setup. But, it is always the modelers responsiblility to watch for binding and linkage problems. In addtion, Century has redesigned the grips and pitch slider for SE kits. You shouldn't have that problem anymore.
4) I NEVER loctited my counter gear bearings to the counter gear shaft and have MANY cases of fuel run thru them without incident. Maybe you got a slightly smaller diameter shaft.
5) Not in agreement on the lower main frames. I have witnessed 150' free falls that broke landing gear but NO damage to these frames. If it was a Raptor you can EXPECT to replace the frames due to them snapping the front landing strut mounting legs off. This happens everytime with or without the cutsy little "upgrade" frame brace!
6) Wire drives suck! But, they cost $5 buck to replace versus the $25 Raptor timing belt and are actually kinda nice for learning basic 3D due because of this. If you have a 401 you can reduce the effects of whipping by using the "Delay" pot. Simple setup skills always help here.
7) Gyro mount area does take some creativity. If you have a CSM then just make a little flat shelf and put it on the boom clamp. Otherwise ALL the other Gyros will mount about anywhere. I have mounted my 401s on the boom clamp, behind the start shaft, and on a shelf in front of the aileron servo. If you have a Raven the entire radio tray is WIDE open!!
8) Hurricane 600s are a CF mix as are about 90% of our blades including SAB, Zigsaws, Gammas, etc. They use glass and either cover it with CF or they just use the CF as reinforcement strips as you see on the Hurricanes. They are nice blades and good kit blades but they are not as good as others for $80 bucks. But, almost every Raptor 50 flyer shelves those wood blades and buys composites. So, take you pick and add THAT to the Raptor 50 price. Like I said it doesn't take long to fill that $100 difference!!!!!

And something that CANNOT be put in terms of $$$$ is the reliablility and low issues of you can expect of the Century helis. We will see how good this V2 Raptor is but I can tell you without a doubt that I spent ALOT of nights having to realign motors, startshafts, gear mesh, replacing clutches, chasing WOOF problmes, WAH WAHS, and adding expensive CNC goodies to get the slop out of my Raptor. Sure it flew nice when it was new but after a few crashes all that cheap plastic starts to show it's true qualities. That's when you get to start chasing problems instead of flying!!! I quit here.......:)

\\Payton
***********************************************

Steve,
The tail problem that Brian mentioned is that the pitch slider/pitch fork can go far enough towards the tail case if not setup properly and tear the pitch fork up. Just as all heli setup requires binding/interaction checks you must limit the amount of throw to prevent this. I personally don't see that as a big problem because it is the modeler's responsibility to check for these things. But, the tail on the Hawk(both the Sport and SE) are nice. They don't have all the slop in the grips that Hirobo tails do so you don't have to replace parts. If you still wanted to you could also install the SE's TRIPLE bearing system(two radials and a thrust!!!). Just remember SE means "Special Edition" and it comes with ALOT of bearings and upgrades in the kit that blow the doors off the other helis when you are trying to consider what is the best VALUE.

Now, I am going to be putting a Hawk Sport together for my 5 1/2 year old to play with this summer. He is showing incredible progress on Real Flight and I would like to get a beater trainer heli for him and the wife. At $160 bucks you can't go wrong. To me that is the key here. Almost 90% of the heli pilots eventually move to larger helis. So, that makes the 30 size a "interim" step in the heli pilgrimage. I would much rather spend as much $$ on the radio system and less on the heli when getting started. So, the Hawk is the cheapest one out right now and it actually is a fantastic flier! It comes with mild mixing ratio and is a stable and confidence building machine. When ready for 3D just change the paddles or play with the VERY easy to tune Bell mixing ratio. This is NOT something you can do on the Raptor. The Raptor mixing ratio is a fixed 1:1 and you can't do anything to change it.

There was a time that I would have said "get a Raptor" but I think that day is greatly reducing. There are some nice alternatives out there now. When gettin started it's all about keeping costs down both initially and in rebuilds. The $100 dollar difference between the Hawk Sport and Raptor 30 V2 is not justified in flight performance. The repair costs are identicle. Then, when you add in the fact that Century has true upgrades to add features to the Sport it gets pretty easy to see that the Sport is a better choice. You can add:
CF torque tubes
Driven tails
Metal headblocks
Triple bearing tail system
Metal side frames
CNC metal swashplate
One-Piece Flybar control arm
........

Just take a look at the three pages of upgrades. Alot of them come in the SE line but still there is alot that even SEs could have:
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...ury/index.html

To me these are much better offerings than a bunch of silly CNC annodized eye-candy parts that are questionable at best as true upgrades. So, like I said the growth potential is great!

The Shuttles(Sceadu too), Ventures, Raptors all have the mixing arms on the flybar seesaw. This system has proven to be prone to blade flutter if all the other variables are not right. It's not bad in itself but if any of the other variables change you get flutter(Woof). Some of these variables are:
1) Slop in the control system
2) Slop in the mixing assembly
3) Blades w/rearward chordwise CG(which most 3D blades have btw)
4) Poor moments on the collective servo.
5) Aggressive Bell mixing ratios running light Hiller paddles.

It has been proven that the Heim rotorhead design that Century and X-Cell use is the most stable and durable design. These heads have the mixing arms on the grip which is the most direct way to induce pitch change.

The start system that Century uses is simple and effective. You don't have to worry about engine alignment as much because their is no start shaft that goes into the clutch assembly. These systems REQUIRE spot on perfect alignment to prevent clutch failure and the dreaded WAH WAHS. Also, this start system truly does not spin when released. Despite the one-way bearing start system on the Raptor and Venture being advertised to not spin once the motor is running it just isn't true. No matter how well you align it it will spin which is another set of bearings that wear and eventually have to be replaced or produces radio interferrence.

Steve parts can be ordered from Rick's in Corpus and get to you pretty quick! I get mine the next day using UPS ground because I am in Houston. But, I bet you get them in 2 days probably being in LA. Otherwise you can always order direct from the Heli-World. Which is pretty cool if you think about it because you are ordering direct from the factory. Last time I checked my Raptor parts came from thousands of miles from the factory.

Also, if this means anything to anyone in the US if you fly Century you are supporting an USA company and you don't have to deal with the overseas webstores. Not that I have anything against them but every order I place often makes me feel bad because if the US channels were reasonably priced I would have gone thru them.

Anyhow, I have typed up a book here and my hands are tired. Gotta leave something for the airfield today!!! :D There are no "bad" choices out there just some that are better financially and from a value standpoint. After all, it's a hobby and VERY few of fly these for a living. You got to make you $$ go as far as possible in the great sport.

The Best intro Heli
 

Yeah, Culverson; it's an interesting question.

Brian's post made me remember something about the older-style Shuttles that make me re-consider getting that ship; ever tried changing a plug in one? The term "significant rectal discomfort" doesn't even begin to apply to that chore. Little things like that are becoming important to me. Part of becoming a cranky old fart, I suppose...

I can just imagine the utter confusion a new guy working alone faces today. I was lucky, in that I had an experienced mentor who steered me away from all the rocks and shoals and made my learning experience relatively painless.

But experience is a two-edged sword. You know what you want, so your knowledge of the shortcomings of this or that machine boils the process down to a matter of which problems will be the easiest to deal with, and/or least aggravating/expensive to fix...

Brian's post is not the first I've heard regarding poor design/QC issues regarding the Hawk line.

It figures that the two nicest, most enjoyable plastic 30s I ever fooled with, the Concept and Kalt Baron, are no longer in production.

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

Thanks for the "book", Payton. You explain your thoughts and experiences fully, with sound logic to back them up. Not much of that on these forums nowadays.

I am a bit confused about this "counter gear". Apparently, the clutch pinion does not engage the main gear directly? Anybody got a pic?

Payton, I'll say that the Hawk is still on the short list. A very big appeal of the Shuttle Challenge is the fact that it's training gear is collapsible; that is, you can take it off the ship, fold it flat and stow it quickly. You don't have this humongus spider-like contraption taking up half the space in your truck, like a Roto-Pod does.

As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing that can beat the Roto-Pod for a training device (simulators included), but the Challenge's rig comes pretty close. I sold my Roto-Pod long ago, like an idiot. So, whatever I get for the kid will either be the Shuttle Challenge or something with a Roto-Pod.

Culverson's thoughts regarding getting something one can grow with are quite poignant. I'm already resigned to coughing up the bucks for a 9C radio; why not spend more on a Sceadu?

Because if the kid doesn't stay with it, then I'm stuck with whatever I bought him. I really like my pal's Sceadu; nice, smooth ship. I've already got a wire-drive cheapo (Concept) to putz around with; that Hawk would not see any use once he was through with it.

It's a good thing that part of the fun is deciding what to get...<G>

Steve

The Best intro Heli
 

Steve,
I am in the process of taking shots of the features on Century helis that are unique and interesting. I got a digicam(not the best but one that will do the job) for Christmas and I am in the process of getting this on my Yahoo Photo page. As it stands I dont have a pic.

But, basically the counter gear is middle gear between the clutchbell and maingear. It is what is used to keep the engine and fuel tank mounted on the CG but bridge the gap between the clutch bell and maingear. Robbe uses this system.

As for training gear I made mine years ago by using 1/2" wooden dowl rods from Home Depot. I then made a 1" X 1" wooden circle to plug the rods into. On the ends I used softball sized wiffle balls fixed in place with zip ties on the wooden dowl on each side of the balls. This lasted me a long time and I NEVER broke it. I crashed with it once and it kept the model upright when the carnage was over. I eventually sold it to a local beginner for $5! Now I wish I had kept it. It assembled/disassembled by just pushing the rods in the center joiner. I realize the Challenge training gear is easy but this was easier than that.

No matter what you buy if the little one backs out you will end up with it. I think the Hawk Sport or Sceadu would be nice to have in anyones stable if the idea falls thru. Like I said having owned a Sceadu I still would rather have the Hawk. I don't by into the hype of the Asian helis as much anymore. They try to design them for the masses which takes away alot of builder influence. It is the builder influence that makes a heli more customizable and tailor fit to their wants. The downside is that it does leave alot of opportunity for problems if you aren't careful in assembly or experienced with helis. Fortunately Century realizes that their Hawk was not the best "bolt together and fly" machine for the beginner and that is why you get a Hawk Sport ARF. It's a step in simplifying the kit. But, once the beginner gets a little knowledge under the belt they are MUCH happier with the Hawk and realize why it's strengths over the other choices.

There are some changes between what Brian had and the V2. Century had thrown in alot of redesigns that he didn't get in his. Like I said the last 1 1/2 has refaced the Century products. They are not the same and these guys are refocusing the company and products to emerge as a leader in the very near future. You'll see, just stand back and watch...... ;) The heli market has gone overseas to long. USA heli companies now realize it's put up or shut time.

The Best intro Heli
 

:) I forgot something totally nessecary Burn Fuel----lots of it too.. ;)

The Best intro Heli
 

Hey Lift,
Im not Mike Moss but I know him personally. I'm glad yall in Texas enjoy our events. thanks,
Greg