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Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

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Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Old 09-16-2010, 05:32 AM
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bigplumbs
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Just use what you have got and enjoy it I say................ All this 2.4 talk is a bit mind blowinging and some (including my wife) might say a bit geekish

Dennis
Old 09-16-2010, 05:38 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Great to have you chat and inform modelers online with any latest news. Much appreciated Steve.

Get some spy pics of the xg11,lol. That should make the futaba fanbois quiver with no telematry system yet.

No more fhss beats JR dsm2 now, to busy working on sbus, roll on Dmss
Old 09-16-2010, 05:41 AM
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bigplumbs
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I hear one company is proposing a Duel Band hopping spread system that locks onto 35 channels every 0.0000001 ms and will do all we want it is called

DSM2JFASSTS357227XXZZSSJRFTWT................. or somthing similar
Old 09-16-2010, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: Dave Wilshere

Stick with your JR/DSM-2 systems, I've stated before that if I had to fly Futaba i'd take up boating and I stick by that!

Dave Wilshere

See you down the lake then
Old 09-16-2010, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Funny how this all comes full circle.

The last two years or so, everyone was saying "I don't want a stinking module in my TX" for whatever reason.

Now, everyone is going to say "JR is switching away from DSM2 and I'm stuck with a TX that doesn't have a module!"


Old 09-16-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I hear ya brother!

Go Steelers!
Old 09-16-2010, 12:58 PM
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bevar
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I heard that Hitec is about to announce a new transmitter that has 38 channels, is lipo/sun powered and when you turn it on...it transmits a 25watt blast that blows everyone else in the air...out of the air.

The only issue I hear is that if two transmitters are turned on at the same time, they blow up...kinda nuke style...contaminating the flying site for the next 50 years with fallout.

Hmmmmm....

Beave [sm=bananahead.gif]

Old 09-16-2010, 01:05 PM
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wojtek
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I think I'm just going to switch to control line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkOX9n4eMA



~V~
Old 09-16-2010, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

thus far it appears for business reasons JR is being pressured to jump over to a frequency hoping system.the news that mfg'r are looking at telemetry is just keeping up with new tecnology and if your the type to get all that stuff your happy.I have a futaba 2.4 and dont feel the need to rush to get new stuff.if you had a dx7 and it browned out and you lost expensive aircfrat your smiling at the JR switch.
Old 09-16-2010, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: cloudancer03

thus far it appears for business reasons JR is being pressured to jump over to a frequency hoping system.the news that mfg'r are looking at telemetry is just keeping up with new tecnology and if your the type to get all that stuff your happy.I have a futaba 2.4 and dont feel the need to rush to get new stuff.if you had a dx7 and it browned out and you lost expensive aircfrat your smiling at the JR switch.

The TX doesnt cause brown outs it is low voltage on the RX side.................. DX7 one of the best radios around

Dennis
Old 09-16-2010, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I was gonna say something about the "Telemetry" war that is about to begin, but coulddancer beat me.


DX8, now advertising in North America, don't know about oversea's, beat JR to the punch.

But who will come out second in sales behind Hitech, if JR has not begin to advertise yet will they be ready for sales like Spectrum. Spectrum appears to be geared up and shipping with the latest round of advertising and cover-up on my recent Model Airplane news mag.

So it is pretty Obvious Futaba will be last with this new capability.
Old 09-16-2010, 05:01 PM
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hyperdyne
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I am still not convinced that Futaba is doing true FHSS. All evidence points to hopping DSSS. Different deal.

It's curious that article showing the weakness of the JR came out in Feb., when it fact I discovered it here first on RCU well before that. Nice.

Anyway from all the research the 2 closely-spaced channels is the only downside to the JR DSM2 system. And you would need something that absolutely swamped both channels. It is not apparent how/when the JR system does this, as it seems to only do this in very quiet environments (from my experience). So it could simply be a red herring.

I'm not switching manufacturers since it is really such a low probability event if any. Even if the JR radio did this in the field, it would take some serious jamming that is done on purpose or via extreme incompetence.

Old 09-16-2010, 06:59 PM
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Prop_Washer2
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Here is the problem with DSM2...the new one is called DSMM and its a hopper...

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
Old 09-16-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2

Here is the problem with DSM2...the new one is called DSMM and its a hopper...

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
That's been posted a bunch of times - many in this thread...

I don't think that the problems that are reported with the Spektrum system are due to the issue with two closely spaced frequencies. After all, as I said above, that would cause the aircraft to go into failsafe (or at least hold), and what people are saying is the the aircraft not only doesn't respond to their commands, it does other things (what we called a "glitch" in the PPM days...) or at least doesn't go into failsafe (i.e., no idle throttle or turbine shutdown). Other times, the aircraft becomes "unbound" in the air, or on the ground (this failure mode I've seen repeatedly myself). This isn't an interference issue. I suspect a hardware or firmware problem in the RX's...

Bob
Old 09-16-2010, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I am a JR Fan of 20 plus years and hope and pray that the new JR hopping system will come to the US. My fear is that Spektrum (Horizon) will do everything possible to keep it out. I hope not though! When we do see it, I bet its through a new distributor. Horizon has way to much invested in DSM2, and will push it from now on. I'm not bashing Horizon, I have more Horizon products than anything else, and will continue to support them. I'm just not happy with DSM2, and would like a choice where JR Propo is concerned. I would hate to have to order from overseas, but I'm not above it.
Old 09-16-2010, 11:09 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

ORIGINAL: rhklenke


ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2

Here is the problem with DSM2...the new one is called DSMM and its a hopper...

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
That's been posted a bunch of times - many in this thread...

I don't think that the problems that are reported with the Spektrum system are due to the issue with two closely spaced frequencies. After all, as I said above, that would cause the aircraft to go into failsafe (or at least hold), and what people are saying is the the aircraft not only doesn't respond to their commands, it does other things (what we called a ''glitch'' in the PPM days...) or at least doesn't go into failsafe (i.e., no idle throttle or turbine shutdown). Other times, the aircraft becomes ''unbound'' in the air, or on the ground (this failure mode I've seen repeatedly myself). This isn't an interference issue. I suspect a hardware or firmware problem in the RX's...

Bob
If both signals are blocked an unbind situation occurs. Hopefully the failsafe will kick in. It may happen a little more often than you think. I hope that the target that is contained within your "gunsight" is not the messnger. A few others have had this problem;

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...tm.htm#9784342

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_98...tm.htm#9886853

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6865345

Just be aware of possible issues, hence I guess a change from JR would and should will be in order. BTW...I can't stand Futaba and their over priced hardware but the FHSS seems to be fairly good. There are a number of alternatives and time will tell who shakes out as the better alternative.
Old 09-16-2010, 11:35 PM
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Kelly Rohrbach
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Not to worry guys, with electronics advancing so fast these days what we have now will be like AM in a couple years.
Old 09-16-2010, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: Kelly Rohrbach

Not to worry guys, with electronics advancing so fast these days what we have now will be like AM in a couple years.

Yuppers...
Old 09-17-2010, 03:28 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: hyperdyne

I am still not convinced that Futaba is doing true FHSS. All evidence points to hopping DSSS. Different deal.
Futaba's own application for FCC approval claims that FASST is DSSS. afaik from very limited knowledge, all the alleged FHSS model systems are not FHSS, but DSSS that changes channels rapidly, which is technically different from FHSS. What they heck, they work superbly well, however it is they are achieving it.

Harry
Old 09-17-2010, 06:25 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

I think JR is putting up a distraction (telemetry) while they are trying to work through the issues of DSM2 (getting away from Horizon/ Spektrum).  The good thing is maybe after alot of complaints JR (whom I do respect even though I own Futaba) is hearing all the complaints and actually doing something about it by getting away from Spektrum DSM2 caca.  I think it would be awesome for JR to do there own thing and not share their name with Spektrum.
Old 09-17-2010, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

So we know that JR is currently offering DSMJ modulation for the Japanese home market due to regulatory restrictions on fixed-channel 2.4Ghz transmitters. DSMJ has to be frequency hopping in order to meet the requirements for higher output transmission.

We also know that JR is planning on releasing FHSS air radios beginning with the upcoming XG7:



From TREXMad's website:

"Preview of the brand new XG7 radio from JR. This seven channel set is due this Autumn.

This radio heralds the introduction of JR's very own DMSS 2.4GHz technology. DMSS stands for Dual Modulation Spread Spectrum, which basically means that JR can adapt it to be either a full 'frequency hopping spread spectrum' system (FHSS) or a 'direct sequence spread spectrum' system (DSSS).

It is our understanding that FHSS will be used for JR's aircraft radios, starting with the XG7. This stylish transmitter is based on JR's well-proven X2720 35MHz radio, but with the addition of a scroll bar interface and telemetry.

As standard the XG7's telemetry system monitors receiver battery voltage. When the receiver battery reaches a pre-set level the transmitter will sound a warning. The receiver battery voltage is also shown on the transmitter's large, clear display. Additional telemetry sensors for RPM and temperature measurement will be available early next year.

Each set will come supplied with 1500 mAh Ni-MH transmitter and receiver batteries and a genuine JR charger, now fitted with a UK style 3-pin plug. The charger and receiver battery has a temperature sensor, which will automatically stop the charge once the battery is full.
There is also a servo test mode, where the servos' neutral positions can be adjusted via the transmitter.

Each XG7 will be supplied with one of JR's new eight channel FHSS receivers, fitted with a remote antenna. A heavy-duty switch harness and bind plug will also be included.
The final prices are still to be fixed but our target retail price is under £300 for a Tx/Rx Combo."
What isn't known is how any of this will shake out in the North American market. Horizon Hobby is the exclusive distributor of JR radio systems. They may choose to pick up the new FHSS line, or they may not. JR might change their North American distribution arrangements to get this new radio technology to market in North America, or they may not.

Horizon Hobby happily distributes Hitec FHSS radio products, even though they don't have exclusive rights to them. It's quite possible that they'll be happy to sell JR FHSS systems as well as Hitec. As long as you're buying it from Horizon, Horizon shouldn't be all that concerned about what "it" is.

JR may be introducing the new product line to Europe due to regulatory concerns. Computer manufacturers have much deeper pockets with which to manipulate politicians; JR may simply regard reshuffling their EU product line as a smart pre-emptive move. If this is the primary motivation for JR's change, they may not even worry about offering FHSS in North America, much less altering their current distribution arrangements with Horizon Hobby.

Horizon Hobby will have to decide if it's more important to continue championing DSM2, or if they'd rather offer JR FHSS products to grab a larger slice of the overall market.

JR will have to consider North American sales trends, and whether or not they will benefit by bringing FHSS products here.

Folks who love DSM2 think JR FHSS systems are unnecessary, folks who don't love DSM2 have by and large already selected a different brand of radio. Given the market leadership that JR and Horizon enjoy in North America, they may be completely happy with the status quo and won't change anything.

About the only thing anyone can do is contact Horizon Hobby about pre-ordering an XG7 radio system and seeing what kind of response you get. Their answer would probably indicate how things will unfold on this side of the globe.
Old 09-17-2010, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2


If both signals are blocked an unbind situation occurs. Hopefully the failsafe will kick in. It may happen a little more often than you think. I hope that the target that is contained within your ''gunsight'' is not the messnger. A few others have had this problem;

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...tm.htm#9784342

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_98...tm.htm#9886853

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6865345

Just be aware of possible issues, hence I guess a change from JR would and should will be in order. BTW...I can't stand Futaba and their over priced hardware but the FHSS seems to be fairly good. There are a number of alternatives and time will tell who shakes out as the better alternative.
I think you are overloading the term "unbind." When the RX looses the signal, sure, it starts looking for it again - by scanning all of the channels. However, its still "bound" to the TX, i.e., its looking for a transmission from a TX with the GUID that it has stored in memory from the last time it was "formally" bound to the TX. That is not an "unbind," at least not what I would term an "unbind." What I have seen as an "unbind" is that sometimes, the RX will not respond *at all* to a TX that it was formerly bound to. The *only* solution that has worked in these cases is to go get the bind plug and "formally" rebind the RX to the TX (i.e., plug the bind plug in, turn on the RX, push the button on the TX, turn it on, dance in a circle 3 times, etc.). The only explanation I can see for an "unbind" of this type is a software bug in the RX...

Bob
Old 09-17-2010, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

Well written,

Perhaps get a poll going, to see how much demand there is for North Americans wanting Dmss, Maybe Horizon will listen.

Surprised you have not had a statement from Horizon yet about dmss, whether you are in and whats happening with dsm???

You may eventually be the lucky ones and actually get a choice between new dmss and new dsm, assuming Jr will still support dsm for n.America??
Europe may not be so lucky? The 2nd hand dsm sets may be popular after all, to give that choice, if new dsm sets are stopped.

Plenty of people freely enjoying the two channel hopping method.
Old 09-18-2010, 02:52 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?


there will be no upgrade path from DSM2 to JR FHSS. JR are abandoning several thousand modellers who have bought JR DSM2 sets, even those bought recently!

If that is the case then thanks very much JR, it will be a long time before I buy anything with a JR label

[X(][X(] WE WERE USED LIKE LAB RATS TO TEST {JR"S -HOPE IT WORKS SYSTEM}..
Old 09-18-2010, 05:19 AM
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Default RE: Any truth to rumors that JR switching to frequency hopping FASST system?

What are you going to do Shaz???????????????????????????? Keep JR or go to the other brand

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