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Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Old 03-11-2011, 01:36 PM
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siddus74
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Default Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Having been a member of 3 clubs that I have flown jets at (with the permission of the comittee) I find that there always seem to be a handful of members that seem to go out of there way to moan and gripe about 'Jets and potential safety hazards" blah, blah, blah . . . whay cant people just live and let live? Is it the whole "it cost more money" or the supposed status that comes with jets (which I cant see personally) for me its the pinnical of my hobby and am proud to have reached the level where I am confident to buy and fly them . . . Just because I dont want to fly 3 channel vintage any more []

When seeing the Jets fly at the UK shows I always found it inspiring . . .

Why cant people just except them as an part of the hobby? Has anybody else experienced this?


Scott.
Old 03-11-2011, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I wasn't aware that Jets were a race. I assume you mean discrimination. The divide between "jet guys" and the rest of the RC plane community runs deep for some people, but as a whole I haven't had many bad experiences.
Old 03-11-2011, 01:50 PM
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Wclays
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Plain and simple if it does not fit people’s views they do not like it, it is out of their comfort zone, so they must not like it, it is dangerous, etc, maybe just jealous, nobody knows.

I have flown all aspects of modeling and try and keep an open mind. 3D, Scale, Pylon racing, EDF and Turbines.

Sometimes I admit I have found some jet people kind of stand offish (but this has been true of all parts of the hobby), I have caught myself doing this when I am going through
my check list to fly and somebody starts asking questions, so I stop and focus on the person asking questions and explain what they want to know.

One it might make them feel like I am not intruding on their 3 channel awesome model that they want to fly.

Two it might be a prospective future jet pilot. I have had fewer problems when I fly EDF, since that seems to be in reach of some budgets.

Not everyone is that way

Keep your mind open and share you knowledge with them. It might help.

My two cents.

Clay
Old 03-11-2011, 03:47 PM
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Edgar Perez
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Part of it is lack of familiarity. I used to think Helicopters were dangerous. Didn't wan to be close to them. Then I flew Helis for a period of time and lost the "fear" of them. Same thing happened to me first time I started a Q500 Nelson engine..
Old 03-11-2011, 03:57 PM
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WhoDaMan
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

so get them more invoved in the jets , cost , fast, jealous, some folks hate change
Old 03-11-2011, 03:57 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Has anybody else experienced this?
Yes. Surprisingly a 'ban the jets' movement started by the club secretary even though the president, vice president & two of the committee members were jet flyers!

What is was really was a vendetta by the secretary who didn't get his way on another issue so to target the rest of the committee he started his case against jets. It all came out at a club meeting & he ended up looking like a total idiot.

Is it the whole "it cost more money"
I think it came down to money as well. He was very interested in a turbines when he thought he could get a Jet Joe for about a thousand bucks. When these proved to be rubbish & he could not join the 'boys' for what he could afford he became anti - jet.

One it might make them feel like I am not intruding on their 3 channel awesome model that they want to fly.
Yep, a lot of 'club' guys are big fish (with big egos) in small ponds & if you arive on the scene with a model a little more awesome than their's, and it doesn't have to be a jet, their awesomeness will be threatened. I think the above mentioned club secretary fits into the big fish catagory. As a founding member of the club he taught a lot of newbies to fly, they thought he was awesome and he loved that. As the club grew established flyers joined who could fly really well & Mr Awesome began to look like Mr Average (very average).


A related thing, I recently was asked to fly a turbine model demonstration, at very short notice (the arranged guy had model problems) at a scale event at another club. This club was considering permitting turbine jets & wanted to see one in action. It was unbelievable to hear all the pre-conceived ideas about turbine models going round in people's heads.

What surprised them?

How fuss free the operation of a turbine was, how quiet the models are in the air despite the noise on the ground, how the models could be flown quite comfortably with other models in the air & how the model (medium powered sport jet) could easily use their grass strip. - John.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:04 PM
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Beavis
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Scott,

Perhaps you could change the title of the thread to "Discrimination Against Jet Flyers". It's an important discussion that will be easier to be searched under "discrimination", rather than "racism", in the future.

Thanks for considering it.
Old 03-11-2011, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

ORIGINAL: Boomerang1

Yep, a lot of 'club' guys are big fish (with big egos) in small ponds & if you arive on the scene with a model a little more awesome than their's, and it doesn't have to be a jet, their awesomeness will be threatened.

So very true... that made me chuckle [8D]. As a member of 4 area clubs, each club seems to have their very own 'Alpha-Male, know-it-all RC pilot' .


I'm with Beavis about the title change... I read the title thinking Scott has run into somebody at the local field who was re-living the 1950's.
Old 03-11-2011, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I for one enjoy seeing a jet fly and they are always a big hit at our annual airshow. As for myself I have flown everything under the sun except for jets. That being said, I have to admit that I have been " Rubbed " the wrong way by jet pilots moreso then any other aircraft pilot. My perspetive is that the two or three occasions that I had a brush with a jet pilot, I left the situation with a beleif thatthey beleived their aircraft had priority over any other aircraft at the field as well as a healthy case of " Here I am and I am supirior ". Now I just stay clear and enjoy the model from afar.
Old 03-11-2011, 05:26 PM
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rolsen12
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I heard the same B/S about Giant airplanes when they first showed up about 30 years ago, and before that it was the tuned pipe engines that where going to kill people and such.
Most all of them that were of that opinun are taking a dirt knap now.
And I hope they are turning over in their graves now.
You know what they say about people that can't take a joke...............
Old 03-11-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Heck yea I've seen it.....one word for you - "Prado"

-S
Old 03-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

Micro Tubine engines are such engineering master pieces. Who would not want to see one in flight. I say, if its your hard earned money your flying, then with all due respect @)!!$*T^ em all.

I have not flown one yet. But............

They are just bad *****.

Steve
Old 03-11-2011, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I am with you SID. Try going to a club with a heli WOW what a warm welcome I have seen ! I love these awsome turbines and will find a way to buy them for as long as they will keep selling them !!! I have earned the right to fly what I want .
Old 03-11-2011, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .


ORIGINAL: scalehelinut

I am with you SID. Try going to a club with a heli WOW what a warm welcome I have seen ! I love these awsome turbines and will find a way to buy them for as long as they will keep selling them !!! I have earned the right to fly what I want .
So true

You guys think jets are frowned apon!

Alan
Old 03-11-2011, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: Racism against jet flyers . . .

That being said, I have to admit that I have been " Rubbed " the wrong way by jet pilots moreso then any other aircraft pilot. My perspetive is that the two or three occasions that I had a brush with a jet pilot, I left the situation with a beleif thatthey beleived their aircraft had priority over any other aircraft at the field as well as a healthy case of " Here I am and I am supirior ".
Don't think you are special!

Some jet flyers treat OTHER jet flyers like that particularly at some jet meets.

Who knows how they treat flyers with models with that turny thing at the front!

Once a knob, always a knob, no matter what they fly. Fortunately there's relatively few of them &
most jet flyers will be nothing but helpfull & friendly. - John.
Old 03-11-2011, 11:34 PM
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Duncan
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Default RE: Racism against jet flyers . . .

ORIGINAL: Boomerang1

Once a knob, always a knob, no matter what they fly. Fortunately there's relatively few of them &
most jet flyers will be nothing but helpfull & friendly. - John.
That's very True John !!

I've found the majority of Jet flyers to be very welcoming and helpful, although you do get the odd guy who is a bit up his own ass. It's the same with the top pylon guys, they are again really friendly and helpful with non of the elitist bs some other flyers talk about.

I had some problems at my club when I started in jets and John helped me put some info together to settle the minds of some of the older members of the club. Unfortunately their minds couldn't be changed about letting jets fly, so I left and found a jet friendly club to fly at.

At the end of the day, I think the anti's and the elitist arrogant knobs, forget that no matter what the model is, it's still just a toy that we bought to enjoy ourselves with.

Duncan

Ps. Scott MOD Luffenham isn't that far from you and it's where we fly our jets.
Old 03-11-2011, 11:36 PM
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siddus74
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Default RE: Racism against jet flyers . . .

Nice to hear that im not the only one haveing issues, I think I am going to show humility and try the getting them involved route first before starting any personal wars . . . Ill try not come over as an arragant knob.

Some jet flyers treat OTHER jet flyers like that particularly at some jet meets.
Funny . . . all my stuff is 2nd hand and one of them is air start, I would imagine I would be on the recieving end of the above.

Scott.
Old 03-12-2011, 12:47 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I've had all sorts of comments even at my own club about the models I bring many aren't even mine but I happen to be at an end of a build and doing some testing with the engine, fuel systems etc... Not to mention many of the more complex models can take 200-400 hours to build and deck out in a scale manner even though they are called ARTF's

One guy told me that I must neglect my family by having a Jet and an ARTF one at that because obviously I now have no money to keep a roof over their head or feed them! Chequebook modeler springs to mind as a popular one. Another guy told me that I was only trying to impress people by bringing such models down to the club which in fairness had me in fits of laughter which in turn didn't help the situation very much. Ive got better things to do than try and impress a load of pensioners wearing socks and sandals. He didn't seem interested in my two scratch built models that were sitting next to it though.

Luckily I'm a relaxed sort character so much of it goes over my head...



Funny old world.............
Old 03-12-2011, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

I remember in 1980 I was told that my os 77 powered byron f 16 was too fast to fly at the club, and the next day they had Q 500 races !!!!! I was much younger then and I told the old farts what they could with thier club.....
Old 03-12-2011, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

This problem is not exclusively an RC jet problem, in fact it’s not even a problem with only RC! It is a human problem, but in RC it seems to be mostly to do with old farts. I admit that I am getting older myself, but I am determined to live and let live. Some people have insecurity issues with themselves, it’s not the ______(insert anything) guy making him feel that way. Every club has old farts, we have one that literally hates anyone that does not fly pattern. Talks nasty about IMAC and 3D flyers, I don’t understand it, how petty can one get? It’s like mall security having a nasty internal power struggle to see who gets assistant night shift supervisor.   Who the f_____ cares?   

Old 03-12-2011, 07:21 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

At our club in Phoenix we have 300 members and for the most part we all get along. The jet guys, IMAC, 3D and Sport fliers all know each other, we all communicate in a civil manner. There are personality conflicts here and there, but it has nothing to do with what we are flying. I dont see any bias, or anyone with a chip on their should becuase of what is being flown.

We realise the 40 size trainer has every right to the same sky we have.
Old 03-12-2011, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

When I first got in I showed up with a 6ft. plane and at that was the biggest you could get. Got a lot of flack on that plane. Told I wasn't good enough. then each time my planes got bigger that flack kept coming. then I got the first trailer. Guess what followed.
Then I was the first with 2.4. you can only guess what I heard. now more the 75% are 2.4.
Now I wasn't the first in my club to get a waiver, but when i did they bet wether or not I would keep it on the runway. they lost.
Now the club lenghened the runway to 800ft. for the jets and we have about 11 turbine holders in the club, and on any Sunday all see in the parking lot are trailers. most of the planes are 25% or bigger.
Now I started 30 years ago and may be considered "one of the old farts" at 63 but I still love to watch them all fly and will always want to try something new.
I really think part of it is that pilots tend to gather with pilots that fly the same type of planes and you must make a effort to join with the others and make small talk.
No matter what I flying that day I always try and talk to everybody no matter what they flying.
One day I'm jet the next week I'm GS and some days I'm foamy. What I am full time is a hobbist that loves to fly full time. Don't what to be put in a box.
Dennis
Old 03-12-2011, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

We realise the 40 size trainer has every right to the same sky we have.
This is because the 40 size trainer goes at a compatible speed with the 3D and sport flyers.. But being reluctant to flying a jet sharing the sky with trainer is a safety concern, not a personality disorder!


Enrique
Old 03-12-2011, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .

ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

This problem is not exclusively an RC jet problem, in fact it’s not even a problem with only RC! It is a human problem, but in RC it seems to be mostly to do with old farts. I admit that I am getting older myself, but I am determined to live and let live. Some people have insecurity issues with themselves, it’s not the ______(insert anything) guy making him feel that way. Every club has old farts, we have one that literally hates anyone that does not fly pattern. Talks nasty about IMAC and 3D flyers, I don’t understand it, how petty can one get? It’s like mall security having a nasty internal power struggle to see who gets assistant night shift supervisor. Who the f_____ cares?


LOL.... Very true observation......

It's been that way as long as I can remember. When I was 16, I brought my K&B .40 powered Little Stik to a club meeting for the "model of the month" vote. It was the first airplane that I built that really came out great (I finally realized the advantages of sandaper!), and I was proud of it. It was disqualified because the engine was "too big" for the airframe, and it would "destroy the servo pot wipers" etc. Some older guy (the only other person with a MOTM entry) with an admittedly nice Super Kaos won the roll of pink monokote instead.

Funny, but I did wear that airplane out............. after about 9 years of faithful service! It was so fuel soaked that I just retired and tossed it. It started me on a whole slew of grossly overpowered airframes for fun flying.

I still have a plans bashed Big Stick .40 that I built around a Rossi .61 RE with pipe. I built it in '87 and it is still flyable (although I went a little milder on the power a few years ago and then retired it). My main concern is the service life of the epoxied wing butt and the cloth joiner on the center section. I got crap for that one from the "old guard" damn near every time I flew it! That's another one that was predicted to live a short life.

When I started in the late 70's, it was the "ballistic" pattern guys that got the heat, later it was the helis, then 3d etc. My take is that the ones that complain are the ones that either: can't build/fly these types of aircraft, or can't afford them.

The jet guys are just the newest "red headed step children" of the hobby. As long as ANY model is operated safely, there is room in this hobby for it all. The turbines are the cutting edge of this hobby, and IMHO, nothing short of amazing. One of these days, I'll get one, if for no other reason than to give the field "Yentas" something different to complain about!
Old 03-12-2011, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: Discrimination against jet flyers . . .


ORIGINAL: siddus74

Having been a member of 3 clubs that I have flown jets at (with the permission of the comittee) I find that there always seem to be a handful of members that seem to go out of there way to moan and gripe about 'Jets and potential safety hazards" blah, blah, blah . . . whay cant people just live and let live? Is it the whole "it cost more money" or the supposed status that comes with jets (which I cant see personally) for me its the pinnical of my hobby and am proud to have reached the level where I am confident to buy and fly them . . . Just because I dont want to fly 3 channel vintage any more []

When seeing the Jets fly at the UK shows I always found it inspiring . . .

Why cant people just except them as an part of the hobby? Has anybody else experienced this?


Scott.
Sounds like a very simple case of jealousy to me. On the other hand, rc jet guys seem to have a superiority stereotype attached to them,and just likeeverything else people will unfairly buy in to that stereotype. There's an old joke around full scale guys that goes like this:

Q:"How do you know there's a pilot in the room?"
A: "Don't worry he'll tell you".

Typical stereotype lol. Maybe a twinge of truth to it though

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