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PowerBox or Not ?

Old 03-13-2011, 07:07 PM
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highhorse
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Default PowerBox or Not ?

I am starting a FB F9-F within the next week or two, and need help from the more experienced builders/flyers here please.

The search engine is a bit weak, so I'm unable to find a difinitive thread on the subject. Please forgive me if it's all been beaten to death before.

Are PowerBoxes and similar products worth the extra expense? I am a redundancy freak (Switches, bats, rx) and will build in redundancy whether I powerbox or not etc, so that is not the issue. The real issue as far as I am concerned is whether I need extra power stabilisation and/or signal amplification over that provided by a bare bones two switch, two batt, two RX setup. Is simplicity itself a safety enhancement?

Thanks for your thoughts and advice,

Don Ray.
Old 03-13-2011, 07:21 PM
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mikedenilin
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Hi Don

My builder is putting together a brand new RTF FB Panther.
We are using futaba received with smart fly EQ6 Turbo power system.
If you are using JR System the. You can just use 1222 receiver with dual battery setup because it has bult in power distribution system so you can keep the set up very simple. If you using regular Rx with no high power input cable then it's better to use power system to distribute high current to digital servos and keep filtered regulated 5 V power to Rx.

He will have more construction photos available shortly next week. I will see if he can post it on the RCU forum for you

Mike
Old 03-13-2011, 09:41 PM
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highhorse
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Cool Mike, I look forward to the pics!

You might consider posting them to the "Major Woody FB F-9F" thread. It's very comprehensive and would keep the info in one spot for future builders' searches.

Thanks, Don.
Old 03-13-2011, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Interesting question and one that really is personal preference. My own models have at the very least a PB sensor switch providing a stabilised regulated voltage and it allows two batteries to be connected, I normally use this with a Spektrum AR12000 or Futaba 6014. My preference is not to have an RSS system on the smaller models (160 size and below) but would always recommend it if the model is nearing 20kg to keep within the UK regulations. If it's a large model it may have 15 high power servos requiring long extensions and match channels so in this case one of the larger powerboxs would be ideal. It really comes down to what your happy with, recently I recommended a very simple setup for a P80 powered model but the customer decided he wanted to go the full on PowerBox route feeling the extra £300 was a good idea to protect his valuable model.

Funny thing is we all just have one batt for the transmitter and many when I ask have never replaced it or seem to look after it in the same manner as their aircraft batteries.
Old 03-14-2011, 02:47 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

If I do the "simple" route, I am indeed planning on a PB sensor switch, two 123's(?). and two 6014's thru an RRS.

The F-9F will have 1 less servo, shorter leads, and be no faster than my Boomer XL. Lots of folks fly one Batt and one Rx in that airframe.......as they do the Kingcats (which really scoot) and Euros (so so) and the one Flash that I have personally seen. So I assume that a bare bones setup would function just fine in just about anything and that the redundancy is gravy? Still, folks pay the extra $$ for a reason, hence the plea for experienced opinions.

Regarding the Tx, I have always assumed that the voltage alarm would be my warning that the Tx batt had pooped out. Without the vibration, G's etc I suspect the failure mode there would be less sudden? Knock on wood !!

All input welcom, guys, please keep it coming.

Thanks, Don.
Old 03-14-2011, 03:00 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

have you try the "old" search?
always works better for me

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/sear...mitbutton=+OK+

Regarding what brand i can only say stay with powerbox.
Dont ask why cause "this forums cant handle the truth"....for many products.

Regarding what powerbox i would recoment my favorite, the Evolution unit:
http://www.powerbox-systems.com/e/po...tion/start.php
that has signal amplifier for 6 chanels now in a good price! Its worth spent some time to read what this units do!


worth also read the last page on each powerbox manual!:

"We take mauntenance of the highest quality standards very seriously.That is why PowerBox Systems GmbH is currently the only RC electronics manufacturer certified to the Industrial Norm DIN ISO 9001:2008.

As a result of this quality management ,which applies to development and production, we are able to grant a guarantee of 36 months on our products,commencing on the initial date of purchase.The guarantee covers proven material faults which occur during the guarantee period:such defects will be corrected by us at no charge to you."


good luck
Old 03-14-2011, 04:56 AM
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readyturn
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

OK, more acronyms.... RSS means what??

I am used to it meaning relaxed static stability... I know that is not the way it is meant here.

Thanks
Rick
Old 03-14-2011, 05:20 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?


ORIGINAL: readyturn

OK, more acronyms.... RSS means what??

I am used to it meaning relaxed static stability... I know that is not the way it is meant here.

Thanks
Rick
RRS not RSS ie Redundant Receiver System ie 2 receivers.
Old 03-14-2011, 05:24 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Posted the same as above...
Old 03-14-2011, 05:46 AM
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readyturn
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

OK, makes sense.

Thanks

Old 03-14-2011, 06:04 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Any jet under two metres, I use a powerbox sensor switch & two batteries (lipo or life).
All jets over two metres, I use a Powerbox Evolution on the main surface controls, again with lipo or life.
Where you have long extension leads on large jets, there is the chance of signal loss, this is when a Powerbox of some type is helpful.
Old 03-14-2011, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

has anyone done a wire diagram of an entire system?

that would help alot.
Old 03-14-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Power boxes switches are the way to go for simplicity, work very well
Old 03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

what is the power box for really, is it the same as a smart fly concept? isolating receiver from servos due to voltage drop?
Old 03-14-2011, 10:19 PM
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roger.alli
 
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Hi Don,

I am with Jim on this. Smaller airframes probably do not need them, but larger models with ganged multi servos really benefit from the expanding capabilities of power box type devices.

I am actually a Weatronics convert and in my current build (BVM F-100) am using a Wea 12-22 receiver. If you want to use an expander I would really recommend you check out Weatronics as it offers all the benefits of the Powerbox devices, plus a whole lot more (which I wont go into detail here.) The whole system is contained in one box, which makes wiring up much simpler, and the cost is equivelent to the top of the range powerboxes.

Roger
Old 03-14-2011, 11:36 PM
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David Gladwin
 
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Spot on Roger,

The ULTIMATE system for ANY jet model is a Weatronics system, larger 12 -22 (plus Gyros plus GPS) for the larger models, or the smaller Micro plus a Powerbox sensor switch, just cant be beaten, because NOTHING else comes remotely close, except, possibly, a Powerbox Royal plus 2 receivers. !

Thing is, you and I use them and know their capabilities, the doubters and knockers have never tried them and don't know what they're missing !

Where FASST and Spektrum finish, Weatronics is just starting.

Regards,

David.
Old 03-15-2011, 01:17 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

are this weatronic systems 12 chanel or they can get more David?
Old 03-15-2011, 01:38 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

At the moment they are 12 channels only , I guess more will come, in time.

Regards,

David.
Old 03-15-2011, 03:12 AM
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HarryC
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Bear in mind that when you have a programmable Rx with lots of outputs, such as Weatronic or Jeti, you do not consume as many transmitter channels as with conventional Rx. For example, 2 ailerons, 2 flaps, 2 tailplanes would normally use 6 channels but with a Weatronic or Jeti Rx can use just 3.
Harry
Old 03-15-2011, 04:53 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?


ORIGINAL: HarryC

Bear in mind that when you have a programmable Rx with lots of outputs, such as Weatronic or Jeti, you do not consume as many transmitter channels as with conventional Rx. For example, 2 ailerons, 2 flaps, 2 tailplanes would normally use 6 channels but with a Weatronic or Jeti Rx can use just 3.
Harry
Good point of course. There are only so many switches sticks one can move, by having it all in the RX you save datarate as well, which in turn is good for range.
Old 03-15-2011, 08:28 AM
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HarryC
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Please don't flame me for saying this, am not evangelising just making aware..............

If you regularly make models that have a lot of servos and/or a large power requirement and you often use Powerbox or Emcotec or other brand add-ons to handle power distribution and multiply the servo outputs etc, and your tx has rf module rather than built-in rf deck, then you should take a look at what Weatronics offers. Here's why -

The Weatronic large 12-22 Rx seem jolly expensive, but if you add up the cost of your normal Rx, plus power regulators with multiple regulator redundancy, electronic switch, programmable multiple outputs on every output (only the higher end Powerboxes have programmability, and then only on some outputs afaik) you will often pay far more than the cost of the Weatronic 12-22. It doesn't take many Weatronic Rx to pay back the cost of buying the Tx module. And if you use gyros, the additional cost of Weatronic rx with gyros built in is hugely cheaper than decent brand external gyros and generally much more programmable and useable too. Just one Wea rx with two internal gyros will pay for the Tx module and still have a saving compared to buying a single external gyro such as the popular ACT Fuzzy Pro. Now, having made all that financial saving, you find the Wea's additional programmability is far and beyond the ability of Powerbox and Emcotec, and its "black box" data recorder telemetry is fantastic for giving peace of mind about how well or poorly the system is doing at its limits, and for analysing what went wrong, after a crash.

That's why, if you use add-ons, you should consider converting to Weatronic. It can be much cheaper and is definitely much better equipped. If it's not for you, that's fine it's your decision, your models. It's better that you are aware of Weatronic and look into it and decide not to, than don't because you don't realise it is there and how cheap and good it actually is.

Harry
Old 03-15-2011, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?


ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

At the moment they are 12 channels only , I guess more will come, in time.

Regards,

David.
1 aileron
2 elevator
3 rudder
4 stearing (center when gear is up)
5 flaps
6 slats
7 throtle
8 ecu AUX
9 smoke
10 airbrake
11 powerbox failsafe
12 MPDX1 FUTABA DECODER
13 retracts
14 brakes
15 lights(remote swich)
16 afterburner(remote swich)
17 shute

i use the PowerBox Royal to run the first 7 main vital sufraces
and i use the futaba decoder that can pump out up to 28 ch
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLZH6


sorry but Futaba FASST for me with PowerBox.

cheers





....
Old 03-15-2011, 11:16 AM
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highhorse
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Harry,

I have rarely read a more calm, lucid, and informative post on any topic within these forums.

I will look consider the Weatronic bits for future projects. I may not go there, but I will give it all due consideration.

Thanks, Don Ray.
Old 03-15-2011, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?


ORIGINAL: HarryC

Please don't flame me for saying this, am not evangelising just making aware..............

If you regularly make models that have a lot of servos and/or a large power requirement and you often use Powerbox or Emcotec or other brand add-ons to handle power distribution and multiply the servo outputs etc, and your tx has rf module rather than built-in rf deck, then you should take a look at what Weatronics offers. Here's why -

The Weatronic large 12-22 Rx seem jolly expensive, but if you add up the cost of your normal Rx, plus power regulators with multiple regulator redundancy, electronic switch, programmable multiple outputs on every output (only the higher end Powerboxes have programmability, and then only on some outputs afaik) you will often pay far more than the cost of the Weatronic 12-22. It doesn't take many Weatronic Rx to pay back the cost of buying the Tx module. And if you use gyros, the additional cost of Weatronic rx with gyros built in is hugely cheaper than decent brand external gyros and generally much more programmable and useable too. Just one Wea rx with two internal gyros will pay for the Tx module and still have a saving compared to buying a single external gyro such as the popular ACT Fuzzy Pro. Now, having made all that financial saving, you find the Wea's additional programmability is far and beyond the ability of Powerbox and Emcotec, and its ''black box'' data recorder telemetry is fantastic for giving peace of mind about how well or poorly the system is doing at its limits, and for analysing what went wrong, after a crash.

That's why, if you use add-ons, you should consider converting to Weatronic. It can be much cheaper and is definitely much better equipped. If it's not for you, that's fine it's your decision, your models. It's better that you are aware of Weatronic and look into it and decide not to, than don't because you don't realise it is there and how cheap and good it actually is.



Harry


corect me if i am wrong but as far as i know weatronic use only ONE battery and not TWO like PowerBox that share the load on two batteries

...plus on a powerbox you cant lose a plug need to work the swich cause it doesnt have one.


my 2c






Old 03-15-2011, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: PowerBox or Not ?

Not with futaba sbus system a 8 channel radio can now run the most complex jet. I still my 14mz

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