Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
10-23-2011, 09:00 AM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (153)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: greenville,
MS
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
I have a yellow F-16 and need a recommendation on fan/engine combo. Im a beginner with the large EDF stuff so keep it simple for me!! I would like to see what options I have in this area. Thanks for any help in advance!
10-23-2011, 09:20 AM
#2
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
You know what setup I think would be light and really nice. The new Stu Max 100 mm fan with Tams 100 mm ducting... really nice Stu Max sound and clean Tam Jets ducting.
I would go 12s 5000 and keep her light, motor the fan for around 3800 watts to keep amps down, use a CC 160 HV ESC.
I have the older Stu Max SM110-52 in my Spark and it's just a great fan, I don't think he is making that version any longer. He has new versions to replace the older.
Tam and Stu are the guys to talk to about this plane.
Another option is the stock ducting with the Dynamax fan, the problem is at the moment there are very few conversions out there that are in stock or still in production. You can order parts and make your own, I'm doing that right now. But it's a bit more of a pain.
I'd save weight and space and go with the 100mm Stu Max , but that's me
Link to Stu Max fans:
http://www.performance-edf.biz/stumax90mm100mmfans.html
Link to Tam Jets:
http://www.tamjets.com/
Link to Tams 100mm ducting: http://www.tamjets.com/original/prod...roducts_id=425
I would go 12s 5000 and keep her light, motor the fan for around 3800 watts to keep amps down, use a CC 160 HV ESC.
I have the older Stu Max SM110-52 in my Spark and it's just a great fan, I don't think he is making that version any longer. He has new versions to replace the older.
Tam and Stu are the guys to talk to about this plane.
Another option is the stock ducting with the Dynamax fan, the problem is at the moment there are very few conversions out there that are in stock or still in production. You can order parts and make your own, I'm doing that right now. But it's a bit more of a pain.
I'd save weight and space and go with the 100mm Stu Max , but that's me
Link to Stu Max fans:
http://www.performance-edf.biz/stumax90mm100mmfans.html
Link to Tam Jets:
http://www.tamjets.com/
Link to Tams 100mm ducting: http://www.tamjets.com/original/prod...roducts_id=425
10-23-2011, 05:09 PM
#3
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
ORIGINAL: Ron101
Tam and Stu are the guys to talk to about this plane.
Tam and Stu are the guys to talk to about this plane.
Hi,
If you want, I'd be happy to talk to you about this plane, too.
Simple is a good idea, and there are a lot of options...some better than others. I'm at that number all day.619-944-7574
10-23-2011, 05:29 PM
#4
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Hi,
I found this clip of the third option Ron mentioned, the Dynamax. This one is their now-discontinued 'lite' version, and only with 11 cells. You can see the short takeoff and strong climb, and the sound is very jet-like. Lots of people talk about the improved performance with the 'improved' inlets, but I have yet to see a difference in real life (other than the extra money). The 'dirty' stock inlet performs fine and no mods were necessary at all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhzXx2Mu0hs[/youtube]
I found this clip of the third option Ron mentioned, the Dynamax. This one is their now-discontinued 'lite' version, and only with 11 cells. You can see the short takeoff and strong climb, and the sound is very jet-like. Lots of people talk about the improved performance with the 'improved' inlets, but I have yet to see a difference in real life (other than the extra money). The 'dirty' stock inlet performs fine and no mods were necessary at all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhzXx2Mu0hs[/youtube]
10-23-2011, 06:23 PM
#5
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Here is a video of mine on the old stumax 110-52.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4kKKDv_Ps
The newer stumax 100mm fan has allot more power then my fan does and would by far be the best fan for this plane. The inlet is only 100mm in its tightest spot so any fan over 100mm is just adding weight because the fan can only put out what it gets in.
But on a side note almost any fan would work. Like Shaun says his flew great with the stock inlet and dynamax fan. I have flown it on the stock inlet with an EVF also worked fine. But my faveroite is the stumax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4kKKDv_Ps
The newer stumax 100mm fan has allot more power then my fan does and would by far be the best fan for this plane. The inlet is only 100mm in its tightest spot so any fan over 100mm is just adding weight because the fan can only put out what it gets in.
But on a side note almost any fan would work. Like Shaun says his flew great with the stock inlet and dynamax fan. I have flown it on the stock inlet with an EVF also worked fine. But my faveroite is the stumax.
10-24-2011, 09:52 AM
#7
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Hi,
Yep, I do. That's what's in the video I posted. That's the smaller unit with 11s. Gunradd is a very good guy to talk to about this plane, too. He's had at least two different units in his, and at least two of these planes. He's got lots of videos of his with EVF and Stumax setups. I've built and flown the model with E-Turbax and XPS Dynamax. Like I said, the nice thing about the XPS setup is that it's a lot less money than TJ, and it requires no mods at all when installed in this plane. I've read lots and lots about improved performance with aftermarket inlets and such, but so far I've seen no practical evidence at all that there's any performance difference that would justify the extra expense or effort.
Yep, I do. That's what's in the video I posted. That's the smaller unit with 11s. Gunradd is a very good guy to talk to about this plane, too. He's had at least two different units in his, and at least two of these planes. He's got lots of videos of his with EVF and Stumax setups. I've built and flown the model with E-Turbax and XPS Dynamax. Like I said, the nice thing about the XPS setup is that it's a lot less money than TJ, and it requires no mods at all when installed in this plane. I've read lots and lots about improved performance with aftermarket inlets and such, but so far I've seen no practical evidence at all that there's any performance difference that would justify the extra expense or effort.
10-24-2011, 10:00 AM
#9
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (153)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: greenville,
MS
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
You are correct my friend for the money XPS looks to be the way to go, I had seen this system put in a Byron F-16 and did great!! Im not really looking for blistering speed just good performance with a good sound to go along with it, and ofcourse all for a good price! lol If that is possible...
10-24-2011, 10:09 AM
#10
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (153)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: greenville,
MS
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Will I be ok to go with the 127mm XPS PRO 2 system? For the money looks like I cant beat it? Was thinking with 12s 16+ pounds of thrust should be good right?
10-24-2011, 10:14 AM
#11
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Hi,
That's what I think. Weight is always an issue with models, but especially with EDF. Thing is, even the very heavy Y/A F-16's I've flown flew and landed great. You'd probably end up 1 or 2 pounds heavier with that setup than with the lightest setups out there, but the plane would hardly know the difference.
The Dynamax fan is what the plane was designed around. All of the ducting fits that without modification. You can do 12s just fine and have a very fast airplane. The sound isn't quite as good as the SM, but WAY better than the TJ and, as you know, you can get that fan with batteries for what some of the others cost without batteries.
That's what I think. Weight is always an issue with models, but especially with EDF. Thing is, even the very heavy Y/A F-16's I've flown flew and landed great. You'd probably end up 1 or 2 pounds heavier with that setup than with the lightest setups out there, but the plane would hardly know the difference.
The Dynamax fan is what the plane was designed around. All of the ducting fits that without modification. You can do 12s just fine and have a very fast airplane. The sound isn't quite as good as the SM, but WAY better than the TJ and, as you know, you can get that fan with batteries for what some of the others cost without batteries.
10-24-2011, 10:27 AM
#12
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
You will never make 16lbs of thrust with that fan in this plane. The inlet is to small and you can only push out what you take in. EDF is not like turbine. Using a fan bigger then your inlet is waisting weight and space.
I have been thier done that with the big fan in the f16. By far the way to go is the small fan.
Will the XPS system work.... yes but will be very heavy with less thrust. But will also work fine for a budget. But please dont think you will even see over 11lbs thrust with this system installed in the plane. Its just not going to happen. The stock inlet with the XPS system will work but is hardly the best choice for performance. It only makes money sense.
The stumax would make more power with less weight.
Its your plane and you can build it however you want. But I have already gone down that road you are going down and the small fan is the way to go. A perfect example is my friends Skymaster F86. Its a 20 pound turbine plane that flies better on the 100mm stumax then on a bigger fan. Its all because the inlet is 100mms.
I have been thier done that with the big fan in the f16. By far the way to go is the small fan.
Will the XPS system work.... yes but will be very heavy with less thrust. But will also work fine for a budget. But please dont think you will even see over 11lbs thrust with this system installed in the plane. Its just not going to happen. The stock inlet with the XPS system will work but is hardly the best choice for performance. It only makes money sense.
The stumax would make more power with less weight.
Its your plane and you can build it however you want. But I have already gone down that road you are going down and the small fan is the way to go. A perfect example is my friends Skymaster F86. Its a 20 pound turbine plane that flies better on the 100mm stumax then on a bigger fan. Its all because the inlet is 100mms.
10-24-2011, 10:40 AM
#13
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
ORIGINAL: gunradd
will be very heavy with less thrust
will be very heavy with less thrust
Gunn,
You know I'm with you 99% on your thoughts on this plane, but "very heavy" is a relative term. I installed that system and the plane was a few ounces heavier than it was with the E-Turbax. I don't know if I'd call that "very" heavy. What was the AUW with yours?
You are right about not ever getting 16 pounds out of that installation, though.
10-24-2011, 11:21 AM
#14
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Shaun hes talking about the new XPS fan that bigger. While it works for 12 cell its preferd range is 14 or 15 cell if I rememeber right. Its not as effeicent on 12 cells.
The fan also weighs 3.1 pounds alone with no speed control or batteries. Then you need bigger batteries because the fan draws more power.
You would need to Email stumax for specs on his new 100mm fan. I know its much lighter then 3.1 pounds though. Also you would use smaller ducting...Lighter- and with smaller batteries.... Lighter. All in all you would save weight and room.
I had the big EVF with 45C thunderpower batteries before. Very heavy for this plane. 6500mah 12 cell About 17.5 pounds
Then went 110 stumax and smaller batteries. Much lighter. Mostly because of the smaller batteries. 5500mah 12 cell 16.5 pounds
Lighter set up the plane lands better. The power system makes less heat. Smaller,cheaper batteries for the smaller fan.
The fan also weighs 3.1 pounds alone with no speed control or batteries. Then you need bigger batteries because the fan draws more power.
You would need to Email stumax for specs on his new 100mm fan. I know its much lighter then 3.1 pounds though. Also you would use smaller ducting...Lighter- and with smaller batteries.... Lighter. All in all you would save weight and room.
I had the big EVF with 45C thunderpower batteries before. Very heavy for this plane. 6500mah 12 cell About 17.5 pounds
Then went 110 stumax and smaller batteries. Much lighter. Mostly because of the smaller batteries. 5500mah 12 cell 16.5 pounds
Lighter set up the plane lands better. The power system makes less heat. Smaller,cheaper batteries for the smaller fan.
10-24-2011, 11:34 AM
#15
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (153)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: greenville,
MS
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Guys I agree with everything your telling me, the reason I asked if the 127mm was ok is because they dont offer it in 100mm lol and for the money its a hands down winner if im looking at everything right. Im not a low baller but this is a substantial difference in price!! As long as it will not be a dog im sure I will be happy with the setup? I hope anyways!! With this setup what kind of realistic speed numbers can I expect?
10-24-2011, 12:43 PM
#16
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Hi,
Dog? Hardly. There are plenty of videos on Youtube of this plane on 120mm fans, and you can expect 150-160 all day long. The fellas are correct that lighter is better, but it's a gradient when you factor in price-per-ounce-saved, then cross compare that to performance-gain-per-dollar-spent-to-save-weight. If money is no object (and you don't mind the mosquito sound) then I'd definitely go with one of the very light carbon setups. For some people, it makes perfect sense to go with the most efficient setup without regard to extra cost or work. There's no denying that you're better off that way. For some, however, it's a different formula. For me, I'm not going to buy another inlet for $100 if it's only going to gain me a 5mph difference on the top end (that's a random number since I haven't even seen that much difference). I'm not going to redo bulkheads and/or redesign the interior to accommodate a different setup (even a lighter one) if I can't perceive a difference in landing performance. In other words, I'm not personally in the tax bracket where I'm going to spend $500 to get $10 more performance.
Dog? Hardly. There are plenty of videos on Youtube of this plane on 120mm fans, and you can expect 150-160 all day long. The fellas are correct that lighter is better, but it's a gradient when you factor in price-per-ounce-saved, then cross compare that to performance-gain-per-dollar-spent-to-save-weight. If money is no object (and you don't mind the mosquito sound) then I'd definitely go with one of the very light carbon setups. For some people, it makes perfect sense to go with the most efficient setup without regard to extra cost or work. There's no denying that you're better off that way. For some, however, it's a different formula. For me, I'm not going to buy another inlet for $100 if it's only going to gain me a 5mph difference on the top end (that's a random number since I haven't even seen that much difference). I'm not going to redo bulkheads and/or redesign the interior to accommodate a different setup (even a lighter one) if I can't perceive a difference in landing performance. In other words, I'm not personally in the tax bracket where I'm going to spend $500 to get $10 more performance.
10-24-2011, 12:48 PM
#17
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
If you can wait and find one, I agree with the recommendation to go with a 100mm fan if you can. As Gun mentions above, I have one in my Skymaster F86 and it flys well on it. Surprising for an 18 lb airplane, but it doesn't feel underpowered at all. I'm running on 11S as I fly off grass, but I could even fly it off 10S i think if I flew from pavement. There are some pics and video clips of it here:
http://www.strictlyscale.com/Strictl...cale_Jets.html
This is from the first 3 flights of the model. The sound on the video doesn't do the real sound much justice, it does sound better in person. Very quiet.
http://www.strictlyscale.com/Strictl...cale_Jets.html
This is from the first 3 flights of the model. The sound on the video doesn't do the real sound much justice, it does sound better in person. Very quiet.
10-24-2011, 01:03 PM
#18
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Sean,
That's awesome. Amazing performance. What's that fan cost? I could see me putting that in an F-16, especially since it sounds just like a turbine.
That's awesome. Amazing performance. What's that fan cost? I could see me putting that in an F-16, especially since it sounds just like a turbine.
10-24-2011, 01:43 PM
#20
Senior Member
My Feedback: (32)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
For me, I'm not going to buy another inlet for $100 if it's only going to gain me a 5mph difference on the top end (that's a random number since I haven't even seen that much difference). I'm not going to redo bulkheads and/or redesign the interior to accommodate a different setup (even a lighter one) if I can't perceive a difference in landing performance. In other words, I'm not personally in the tax bracket where I'm going to spend $500 to get $10 more performance.
For me, I'm not going to buy another inlet for $100 if it's only going to gain me a 5mph difference on the top end (that's a random number since I haven't even seen that much difference). I'm not going to redo bulkheads and/or redesign the interior to accommodate a different setup (even a lighter one) if I can't perceive a difference in landing performance. In other words, I'm not personally in the tax bracket where I'm going to spend $500 to get $10 more performance.
Kirk
10-24-2011, 02:13 PM
#22
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
Hi,
Yep. I know all that and I agree generally. In this case, however, we're talking about one specific airplane in which you can only fit so big a battery and so big a fan. With what's out there for this particular application, I'm just saying I don't think think Dynamax is a bad way to go...and that's only based on my own first-hand experience. I am well aware of your first-hand experience, and I wouldn't ever put mine up against that.
Yep. I know all that and I agree generally. In this case, however, we're talking about one specific airplane in which you can only fit so big a battery and so big a fan. With what's out there for this particular application, I'm just saying I don't think think Dynamax is a bad way to go...and that's only based on my own first-hand experience. I am well aware of your first-hand experience, and I wouldn't ever put mine up against that.
10-24-2011, 03:48 PM
#23
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
The XPS fan is 3 lbs 5 oz it will give off about 4500 watts on 12s
The Stu Max will be about 1 lbs 8oz and you can talk with Stu about what KV motor you want to run... I personally think I'd go for 12s 5000 at about 3800 watts. The nice part is you can pick what ever motor you want and get the power you need
You could save 1 lbs 13oz with the Stu Max over the XPS setup, Tams 100mm ducting is $89 bucks
With EDF weight is everything. Light weight will equal longer flight times, more preformance, and easier to land. I love the Dynamax and have flown it in my own planes, but it's not the right fan for this airframe. Tam did a conversion on this plane back in 2009, kept it very lite, lite fan and lite packs. He used his 100mm TJ 100 and his ducting.... I'm not a fan of the way it sounds but to this day I still think it is one of the best performing Yellow EDF F-16 I have seen.
Watch this video and rememeber this is on only 10s at 3600 watts... the plane is only 14.5 pounds and watch how lite in lands in the end of the video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4tIubYrlEA[/youtube]
If kept lite you won't need so much power, you can drop KV and amps to gain flight time.... do it right and you will have a plane that can land slow and fly for 6:00 + minutes
If you run the Stu Max on 12s at 3800 watts it will pull about 85 amps, with 5000 mah packs you will get a great flight time. The XPS on 12s is going to pull 103 amps, with it's heavy weight and extra amps be ready to fly for 3:30 minutes and land.
The Stu Max is the best option and won't cost all that much more
The Stu Max will be about 1 lbs 8oz and you can talk with Stu about what KV motor you want to run... I personally think I'd go for 12s 5000 at about 3800 watts. The nice part is you can pick what ever motor you want and get the power you need
You could save 1 lbs 13oz with the Stu Max over the XPS setup, Tams 100mm ducting is $89 bucks
With EDF weight is everything. Light weight will equal longer flight times, more preformance, and easier to land. I love the Dynamax and have flown it in my own planes, but it's not the right fan for this airframe. Tam did a conversion on this plane back in 2009, kept it very lite, lite fan and lite packs. He used his 100mm TJ 100 and his ducting.... I'm not a fan of the way it sounds but to this day I still think it is one of the best performing Yellow EDF F-16 I have seen.
Watch this video and rememeber this is on only 10s at 3600 watts... the plane is only 14.5 pounds and watch how lite in lands in the end of the video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4tIubYrlEA[/youtube]
If kept lite you won't need so much power, you can drop KV and amps to gain flight time.... do it right and you will have a plane that can land slow and fly for 6:00 + minutes
If you run the Stu Max on 12s at 3800 watts it will pull about 85 amps, with 5000 mah packs you will get a great flight time. The XPS on 12s is going to pull 103 amps, with it's heavy weight and extra amps be ready to fly for 3:30 minutes and land.
The Stu Max is the best option and won't cost all that much more
10-24-2011, 04:53 PM
#24
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
ORIGINAL: Ron101
With EDF weight is everything.
With EDF weight is everything.
LOL,
Not for me, it's not. You could tell me the plane in that video weighs 8 pounds RTF and I'd say add 8 more if that's what it took to get rid of that sound.
Do you feel like the one in my video lands heavy?Also, if you do opt for the Stumax fan, get the ducting for this plane from him, too.
10-24-2011, 05:08 PM
#25
RE: Yellow F-16 EDF recommendation
ORIGINAL: Ron101
The XPS on 12s is going to pull 103 amps, with it's heavy weight and extra amps be ready to fly for 3:30 minutes and land.
The XPS on 12s is going to pull 103 amps, with it's heavy weight and extra amps be ready to fly for 3:30 minutes and land.
Ron,
Sorry, I just re-read that. I have to ask... what are you basing that on? You've flown this plane with that setup or seen it done? I feel like I 'did it right' on the one in the video and it didn't do what you described at all, so I'm just trying to decide whether to believe you or my lyin' eyes....