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Turbine quits at idle

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Turbine quits at idle

Old 11-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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CARS II
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Default Turbine quits at idle

Ok,
I need your help, imput, thoughts and or ideas.I'm just going to post as much as I can as I'm running out of time right now, I will add more detail later.

So I have a turbine ( old/new ) that is just quitting at idle as it seats idling it just quits, coming down from full rpms ( 124,000-37,000 ) to idle, I haven't ran it for some time 'till a few days ago, it has been ran like 8 times in the past days, the fuel filter was change recently ( jetcat ) it stars somewhat normal, it slows down at 24,000 then it continues to 30,000 at this rpm it goes into running mode.

That is all for today , got to run to work.

Aks all you want for details, I will provied them as soon as I get time.

Thank you all for any help ( really [&o] my mind is caput right now )

Old 11-19-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Just some random thoughts....

1) Old and/or wet fuel
2) Low ECU battery
3) Air leak
4) Fuel restriction
5) Pump bound

The Wren 44 I just put back together was giving me some flame-out issues. It took some time to fix... but I chased it down to an air leak in the suction side of the fuel system, and I few ECU settings that needed massaged. (like that stability delay)
Old 11-19-2012, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Carlos double check the filter. It may look clean but it might have a residue you can not see.The filter will look shiny not dull like it should.  Pull it out of the body and put it to your mouth and blow real lightly.You might find a restriction . I find their is a restriction when I have the same problem. Spray it with contact cleaner and blow it off with air. You will find the restriction is gone when you test it against your mouth. I had a flame out on my Bandit and that is all it was.  Dan Avilla
Old 11-19-2012, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

At work, will check tomorrow.
Old 11-19-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

I had an incident with my Wren supersport recently (a harsh arrival then removal from airframe) no damage but when it was put on the airframe it exhibited the same symptom as yours ... it would idle for a while then quit with low rpm .. (admittedly the temps were about 30 deg higher than normal at idle and full rpm ....

After talking to an enginner at wren he said to deguass the rpm sender by waving a magnet across the rpm pickup in a circular mortion, I was sceptical but it worked for me ...

The rpm at idle was stable from that point forward and the temps went back as per normal at idle and full rpm, I can only think that the readings were out through out the entire rev range hence the increased temp readings due to over speeding ...

Got to be worth as shot eh? , let us all know in any case ..

Scott.
Old 11-20-2012, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Home finally

My last flight at work (GEG) had some isues, too many bags, too many pasengers, the sup took over and I went home [&:], it gave me a headeach [:@].

Thank you for the ideas and suggestions, I welcome all of them (even if they sound strange)

Tony: no air in the fuel system, I cheked for that on the six runs that I did today before going to work.

I used 3 diferent battery packs on the six runs, NI-CAD, LI-ION and LI-PO, the LI-ON been a 5200 ma, the same thing happened with all of them, all were charged up.
Old 11-20-2012, 12:48 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Tony

My fuel is somewhat old, I will check for water to make sure, I have used most of it by now ( had 5 gallons) I'm down to about half, I will replace the fuel filter from the fuel container to make sure.

It is looking like a restriction or like a pump isue.
Old 11-20-2012, 01:07 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Dan

Thank you for your ideas and time to reply, tomorrow I will take the fuel system appart and will check every single component piece by piece to make sure all is in good shape including the new fuel filter, I will also test the pump, run it again and take notes and a video ( I going to check the fuel filter for any restriction first [&:])

What are your thoughts about changing the UAT filter?
Old 11-20-2012, 01:17 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Scott

I'm not discarting you suggestion, if it worked for you it my work for me [&:]

Thank you for taking the time to post your experince, very much apreciated.
Old 11-20-2012, 03:22 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle


ORIGINAL: CARS II

.....

What are your thoughts about changing the UAT filter?
Easy way to check, is to bypass it for a run or two. If the problem goes away... then that's the problem.


What kind of engine is it? Can you see the pump voltage, or PW? If it's higher than normal... that would be an indication that the pump is tight.
Old 11-20-2012, 05:08 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Surprised no one has mentioned it, does it smoke when it quits? that's a sure sign that air is getting into the fuel line.

At Idle is it stable, or is it hunting?

Have you tried increasing the idle speed up to 30,000rpm? the increase in revs will make no difference to thrust on the groud.

I assume its a JetCat as they changed the filter as mentioned in your first post, have you tried compressed air in through the fuel inlets to clear any accumulated solidified oil residue?

Mike
Old 11-20-2012, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Thank you, and thank you Mike for jumping in, keep the ideas coming.

So far I ran the engine this morning 3 times and I'm getting another isue, RPMs are way off, it is showing like in the 200s ??? [:@] [:@].
may be it is good thing, at least we have a change that may get us closer to get an answer.

I am uploading a two or three videos to show what is going on, I have also contacted Mr: Gaspar, this set up is using a AU 303 FEDEC.

The turbine is a TJT 3000, The engine is fine, is the the other stuff that needs some attention ( it happens, eventually it needs attention )

In one of the videos you will see the fuel flow during manual priming.

First video, I am up loading as I type.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HkS59XcGQ&feature=plcp



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Old 11-20-2012, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

I have used the same uat for years and never had a problem good luck Dan
Old 11-20-2012, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Is that FADEC downloadable to a PC, if so send it to Gasper and he will sort out the problem by return.

Mike
Old 11-20-2012, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle


ORIGINAL: CARS II
... RPMs are way off, it is showing like in the 200s ??? [:@] [:@].
may be it is good thing, at least we have a change that may get us closer to get an answer.

siddus74
After talking to an engineer at wren he said to degauss the rpm sender by waving a magnet across the rpm pickup in a circular motion, I was skeptical but it worked for me ...

I think your answer maybe in post # 5

This was a common procedure for my RAM 500 which would straighten out after doing this procedure
Old 11-20-2012, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Mike

No smoke when the engine quits.

Dan

Looks like fuel flow is fine.

I got two more videos ( working on up loading ) you will definetly see what's going on once you watch the videos.
Old 11-20-2012, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

This is the second time I ran it, notice the RPMs from start and fuel pump PW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AOQsI3VzE&feature=plcp
Old 11-20-2012, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Without having a base line... I'm not sure where the PW and RPM's should have been.

Also... did you shut it off, or did it die?
Old 11-20-2012, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Tony
I shut it off because the RPMs and power were way off specially RPMs. RPMs should go up to 24,000 then it stays there for about 10 sec. waitting for the temperature to go up to 500c then it goes to 30,000 that's when it goes into running mode then up to 37,000 to idle there but most of the time it hunts.

Mike

Yes it hunts at idel most of the time and the idel RPM is set to 37,000.
Old 11-20-2012, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Third video is on the works it is taking a little longer to up load.

About 15 more minutes.
Old 11-20-2012, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Mario

Don't you have some body part to pull some where , you know better then to be here on RCU.

How is it going, are you still riding the Harly?
Old 11-20-2012, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

OK

Third video, this was the first run today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e6537WyhX8&feature=plcp

At 2:43 I notices the HDT was displaying like 19,000 RPMs, 472 on the temp and 148 on the Pump PW it flashed twice with those number before starting the engine, I was getting ready to start it.
Old 11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

I try to recreate what I saw on the first video but what I got was the values that have been set for the Temp, idle RPMs and PW fuel pump I can only asume all this numbers are when the engine is at idle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry4NrUhNZMw
Old 11-20-2012, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Did one more run, RPMs are as they should be, still quitting at idle, on the start sequence it goes up to 24k the is hangs there and the rpms oscillates around 3k, it seams like it is having a hard time increasing the RPMs then a few seconds later it goes up to 30K by now temp is 500C, then it gets into running mode, there the RPMs sometimes is 41K or 38K rearlly 37K which is wha it is set for to idle, it runs there with the rpms oscillating between 37K and 42K never stable then after about 1 to 2 minutes it just quits, PW at that point is at 37K/131, at 42K/140. right after it quits the PW goes to zero withing a second.
Old 11-20-2012, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Turbine quits at idle

Do you have a spare pump you can test on it? My money is on the pump ..

Scott

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