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Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Old 01-29-2013, 09:53 PM
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turnnburn
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Default Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I kind of hate this type of post because I dont like to see products bashed and flamed when they often times dont deserve it but.......This is an airplane that has always intruiged me but I have never seen one fly and know almost nothing about it. I am under the impression that AD kit are sturdy and well made but I seem to recall that they might be on the heavy side. I saw one short vide of one of these flying and it appeared to fly fine but not terribly fast. It is a fast looking airplane and I like speed (except when landing ). In the video it appreared to slow down nicely for landing but you just cant tell all that much from a video.

I would like very much to add full gear doors if I was to build one or buy one. I assume there is no reason why this could not be done.

Kindly let me know what you think of this airplane good and bad. If there is anybody out there wh has one ready to fly they would like to sell i would be interested pictures and hearing about it.

Old 01-29-2013, 09:58 PM
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DiscoWings
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I don't know how this would knife edge with 2 slanted rudders...
Old 01-29-2013, 10:03 PM
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LGM Graphix
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

It's a really good airplane, really the only negative is the AD arfs have a crappy finish, particularly on mold seams, and the airbrake cutout, but it's just cosmetic. The airplane has a good speed envelope and lands slow. Overall, I personally think it's a good airplane.
Old 01-29-2013, 10:19 PM
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sysiek
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Hi I have one the super scorpion with p-180 and I have only one problem with I just buying lot of kero and oil 145 oz for 8 minutes the finish on mine is good ,,older version,, red bull the new is little sloppy on seams and tape lines on geall coat .
Old 01-29-2013, 10:30 PM
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turnnburn
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I'm curious. With anhedral in the stabilizers do the stab tips grag or rub the ground on nose high landings ? I assume the flying stab mechanism is more than adequate with a proper safety margin over and above the speeds that we fly ?

After looking more at the web site and taking into account the size maybe I should be leaning towards the smaller Scorpion (it is still a resonably large airplane) ?
Old 01-29-2013, 10:44 PM
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sysiek
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I never experience the stabs touch to the runway in all high alfa landings and straight up take of ons I have hard landing with one main broke and nose with no stubs touched to runway
Old 01-29-2013, 11:29 PM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Hi guys , its a great flying model , so easy to fly no bad habbits you can land with just the speed brake on with no flaps very easy , the cosmetic finish is poor  but i think ad are sourcing a new manufacturer ,  it will knife edge beautifuly without and mixing. Personally i think the scorpion is a mudium speed machine bit like a refined sport f15  ! The only reason why i sold mine is that it flys very simular to my large futura type speed envelope, The best awnser i can give is i will buy another when the new ones arrive !
Old 01-29-2013, 11:39 PM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

This is an excellent jet here is mine with a 31 lb thrust turbine
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:30 AM
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turnnburn
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I just realized neither Scorpion or super Scopion have flaps ? Do they use flaperons or just the speed brake only ?


Is everybody using stock retracts and struts ? Do they work well ? Any troubles ?


I intend to install full gear doors if I get one of these. Has anybody done so ? any reason why it will be difficult to do ?


Stabiler mechanism, is it adequate for 200mph plus flight ?


If I get a pure white one I should be able to fix the seams and give it a good finish I would assume ?


are they heavy for their size or not bad ?
Old 01-30-2013, 02:44 AM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

hi,me and my father we both have scorpion jets,mine with a k 140,my fathers with p120sx. my jet is around 230km/h straight fly not so fast because thick airfoil.unlimited vertical,and lands easily just with speed brake.on normal operation stabs are not a problem.flaps are not used because they produce some "shadow" on elevator cntrol during low speed flight .keep cg on main struts and it´ll fly like a dream. i knife edge forever.no roll coupling ,just need a little pull up,cause it sinks to the wheels.
worst video ever,but only one i have:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9hiR...2KdPzKi6rxu3JA
Old 01-30-2013, 02:56 AM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion


ORIGINAL: turnnburn
I just realized neither Scorpion or super Scopion have flaps ? Do they use flaperons or just the speed brake only ?
Is everybody using stock retracts and struts ? Do they work well ? Any troubles ?
I intend to install full gear doors if I get one of these. Has anybody done so ? any reason why it will be difficult to do ?
A friend has an AD Scorpion, and I've seen it fly several times. He also has an AD Phoenix.
My memory occasionally gets confused between them, but one of them had a weak noseleg mounting. I have seen the plywood in the nosegear mountbreak, a few times. Very soft plywood.

However the attached photos (from Sept 2010) should answer your question about the flaps.
I think the U/C is stock. Seems to work well anyway.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:06 AM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I had a Scorpion that I picked up used and installed a Jet Central Cheetah in. I loved the way it flew and it knife edged just fine. I had some initial problems with the landings but it was my setup not the plane. Lost it when I let it get to far away and too slow trying to st up a landing approach. I would have no problem with owning another. It is also a very good looking airframe that gets a lot of compliments just sitting on the stand.

Here is some video of mine the weekend before losing it.

http://youtu.be/k_pxwZv99EQ
Old 01-30-2013, 06:59 AM
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PaulD
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I had a Scorpion - not the super.

The airframe is a draggy airframe so it needs LOTS of power to perform well - I flew mine with a 28lb PST 1300 - not enough IMO.Mine flew more like a trainer in the sense that it liked to be upright and seemed to flight you a bit with knife edge and inverted flight. Very stable wing airfoil and likes to land high alpha and stays very controllable and stable. Don't know about the large one but the CG on mine was WAAAY tofar forward and I ran out of elevator a few times. On the advice of the dealer, I moved it back about an inch and landings became a breeze and could hold the nose up during the roll-out.

I understand from the dealer that AD got rid of thier old manufacturer and took on a new one in a completely different country because of the quality and finish issues people mention here. Mine had some blemishes but was not terrible and functionally, it was very strong. Gear doors would be nice as it doesn't even come with gear wells. The gear is attached to the fuse which is nice for transport and assembly. The full flying stabs are well built and have a good solid linkage. There are large flaps that arevery effective along with an airbrake on top of the engine.

If you are looking at the SUper, I would put at least a 180 and preferably larger if you exepect any kind of speed performance.

Call Peter @ Altecare and get the latest on the new builds. I suspect there's been some improvement.

PaulD
Old 01-30-2013, 07:25 AM
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john josey
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion


ORIGINAL: alasdair


ORIGINAL: turnnburn
I just realized neither Scorpion or super Scopion have flaps ? Do they use flaperons or just the speed brake only ?
Is everybody using stock retracts and struts ? Do they work well ? Any troubles ?
I intend to install full gear doors if I get one of these. Has anybody done so ? any reason why it will be difficult to do ?
A friend has an AD Scorpion, and I've seen it fly several times. He also has an AD Phoenix.
My memory occasionally gets confused between them, but one of them had a weak noseleg mounting. I have seen the plywood in the mound break, a few times. Very soft plywood.

However the attached photos (from Sept 2010) should answer your question about the flaps.
I think the U/C is stock. Seems to work well anyway.
The model doesnt belong to me but i was quite involved in the build/assembly and the only real pain was trying to pull the leads for the rudder servos through the fins, a draw string would have made this so much easier. I can post pics of the install or any part of the model if it help's
Old 01-30-2013, 08:15 AM
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Modellbau USA
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Good Morning to all, well to asnwer the question the Super Scorpion is an excellent flying airplane the speed envelope is very large stall sped is 23 MPHif you use CROW or just a bit faster if you use speed brake alone. Top speed I got with our K180G is 228 MPH, all these speeds are from our on board telemetry.

As Jeremy said the airplanes are very welldesigned and built but the finish is not the best. Becuase of that Eric from Aviation Design decided to move the whole production of Aviation Design from South America to the Czeck Republic. The hign end kits i.e. large Rafel, Mirage 2000, Falcon 7x, Fouga, F117are made in France now at the Aviation design Factory, the other kits are being made in the Czeck Republic. The quality is excellent and built very light. You can come and take a look at the quality of the of the NEWSuper Scoprion and the New Baby Scorpion at Florida Jets we will have both of them Flying. The new Baby Scoprion or better known as the E-Scorpion is powered by a P60 and the New Super Scorpion is Powered by King Tech K180G.

We have stock to sell of the Baby-Scorpion and by Florida Jets we will have the Scorpion. Just to give you an idea the new regular size Scorpion is 2.5 lb lighter than the old ones that were made in South America.We are the USA Dealer for ADJets so if anybody would like info or priceing please contact us at 954-224-1700 or [email protected]
Old 01-30-2013, 10:03 AM
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turnnburn
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I think I have concluded that in order to get the kind of speed Im looking for I will probably have to go with the standard sized Scorpion and put in the biggest block engine that will fit (within reason). I just dont think Im going to be satasfied with the top speed of a Super Scorpion even with a 50lb thrust engine. This is not to say that it wouldnt fly great I just know me and what I like and want.

So now the question becomes whats the biggest most powerful engine that will fit the smaller standard Scorpion and wont over stress the airframe ? The biggest I currently own is a Wren 160 (35lb thrust class engine). Im thinking for this airframe I would eventually want to go to a 45 to 50 lb thrust engine. Probably 45 lbs is about the right amount of "too much" if know what I mean.
Old 01-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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scheur
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEyO7G2PLm0[/youtube]

here is a video of mine SS. its my favorite jet. Very slow in landing.
its powered by an AMT Netherlands Olympus.
IMO the SS fly's better than the small one..
Old 01-30-2013, 10:42 AM
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scheur
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbajumQzIg&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

here we are testing the smoke tube with an amt pegasus.
Old 01-30-2013, 10:50 AM
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turnnburn
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Bigger almost always flys better. How much thust is your engine ?
Old 01-30-2013, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

i think you´re not in the right way,if you want speed,there´s no sense on fitting scorpion with a big block,it´s airframe is aerodinamicaly limited.go for a flash and fit the 160
in.
Old 01-30-2013, 11:05 AM
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scheur
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

he's right! the SS has thick wings. its is not so fast as a flash. we fley the first flights with a pagasus (17 KG - 37lbs) now we fly the SS with the oly (25 kg- 55lbs)
Old 01-30-2013, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

AD jets Super Scorpion is not a speedy plane. It is not designed for that purpose, aerodynamicaly and structuraly !

In fact, it's a trainer with the look of a speedy plane. The SS is a perfect plane for a newby in jet, and here in france it's the main use of this plane in fact... A good friend fly it with a P160SX (jetcat) and it's perfect for this plane. I've seen some with P200SX inside, it's faster but not supersonic and it's a lot of power.

If you want to fly fast, try something else => comp ARF...
Old 01-30-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

Fast = super Bandit (actually a first gen composite would be better)

Start going seriously fast and you will have more issues than the gear doors. The whole fuse can be pumped up with ram air. Not a problem on a bandit. Lands easy too. Field setup is a bear though.
Old 01-30-2013, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

this is what you need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8avk3VVtx4
Old 01-30-2013, 04:29 PM
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Joe Westrich
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Default RE: Who can tell me the good and not s good about Aviation Design Super Scorpion

I was also considering this airframe. I have a P200 that I wanted to use with it.

My only concern was the elevators. I was looking through the manual and noticed that the elevator rods appear to go through a brass tube without any type of bearing. The elevators on this thing are huge, I would even say oversize. I was thinking through any possible failure point between the elevator mechanics and the servo used to drive them. I was thinking about using two 8711 but maybe it needs four on the elevator. I see in the manual how they show to gang a pair of servos per side. This had been my stumbling point on this airframe. The looks and performance are "spot on".

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