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National 747 crash

Old 04-30-2013, 08:42 AM
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FalconWings
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Default National 747 crash

This is a very rare opportuity to see a crash upclose like this. This happened just yesterday. It is said that the cargo pallets shifted AFT, creating a tail heavy condition. The crew did not survive.

This is not RC related, but WE ARE an aviation community. Perhaps this can help ground some of the situations we are discussing on this forum.
Very sad for the lives lost.

David

[link]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518[/link]
Old 04-30-2013, 08:49 AM
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marcpamjoce
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Default RE: National 747 crash

maybe the fuselage had honeycomb.
Old 04-30-2013, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: marcpamjoce

maybe the fuselage had honeycomb.
What an idiot comment. Real people lost their lives here.
Old 04-30-2013, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

That is incredibly tragic. My heart goes out to the families.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

It is said that the cargo pallets shifted AFT, creating a tail heavy condition.
That is one theory but hasn't been confirmed - it certainly sounds plausible though. The next question will be whether the departure profile had anything to do with it. It does strike me as concerning that, if a civilian crew are flying 'tactical' procedures, whether they should be there in the first place. Maybe this should have been a job for military crews flying military aircraft in accordance with military procedures.

Very sad.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Looks like load shift.  I'm not sure if they tip stalled or the pilot tried a nose-high stall recovery.... just no room for recovery.

Godspeed gentlemen
Old 04-30-2013, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: marcpamjoce

maybe the fuselage had honeycomb.
Really???! Unbelivable.

Condolences to the families of the crew. Very sad.


Old 04-30-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Prayers go out to the families.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Siclick, civi crews (at least as of my last time into there) do not fly tactical arrivals or departures......
Old 04-30-2013, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

My god David, full fuel load as well.
Not pleasant to watch, I'm stunned.
Condolences to the families involved.
Gary.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

There is no way at this stage that anyone can say or even speculate that "x, y, or z" caused this accident.
- Yes, cargo shift has caused similar accidents
- improper elevator trim has caused similar accidents
- improper weight and balance has caused similar accidents
- on smaller airplanes control locks in place have caused similar accidents
Tactical departure? Doubt that......have you ever flown or ridden through a standard noise abatement mandated departure from the Orange County Airport in SoCal? 737 guys do those every day..
That video just makes my butt bite chunks out of my chair cushion........condolences to the family.
-Mike


(***Moderator edit to remove a reply to an post earlier in this thread that has been removed. No other portion of this post has been changed***)
Old 04-30-2013, 09:31 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing straight up?
Old 04-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: DiscoWings
Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing striaght up, was the pilot knocked out? What was he trying to do? Hover the jet?
Sad but seriously PILOT Error!
YGBSM.....I guess you are the investigator, judge, and executioner all in one expert package? Shoot, then who needs the NTSB with you here to declare the findings. You HAVE graduated from an accredited accident investigation course? Sheesh.......

Old 04-30-2013, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Siclick, civi crews (at least as of my last time into there) do not fly tactical arrivals or departures......
There was a suggestion on another forum that some crews might. This now seems to have been denied by several other posters on that forum.


The load shift (if it happened) could have been a cause or result of the problem. Maybe there was a problem with the aircraft, maybe there was a problem with the load distribution right from the start. I'm sure the investigators will work this out fairly quickly.


Discowings,

Have you ever flown a horrendously tail heavy model? Almost (if not actually) impossible.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

I thought about trimming, but I think in B744's, once the %CG trim is calculated by the FMC, it will let you know during takeoff if it isn't properly set...then again, if the data fed into the FMC was not accurate I could see it being set incorrectly. Loadmasters are a pilot's best friend on cargo flights.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Fudge!!!!! damn shame
Old 04-30-2013, 09:50 AM
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Pat Barnes
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Default RE: National 747 crash

Another very sad day for aviation - condolences to the families and friends of the crew.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing striaght up, was the pilot knocked out? What was he trying to do? Hover the jet?
Sad but seriously PILOT Error!

Is this post for real?

Terrible loss.
Old 04-30-2013, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

So sad to watch. If it was a "load shift" how often is cargo not attached properly? I would hate to be the person responsible for loading the plane.



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Old 04-30-2013, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

I have been doing preflight (before taxi walk arounds and have found cargo incorrectly locked in and many times loadmasters have been Q-3'd (taken out of flying for it until further training is completed on their behalf). I dont think there are many NTSB investigators on these forums, so nobody really knows what happened. One thing is for sure though- Loadmasters can be the pilot's best friend or worst enemy if they are inexperienced and unsafe. I think most civil cargo carriers do not fly with their loads, instead they have them "stationed" at enroute locations, at least that is how it used to be.........Prayers to the families......
Old 04-30-2013, 10:06 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing striaght up, was the pilot knocked out? What was he trying to do? Hover the jet?
Sad but seriously PILOT Error!
You sure aren't shy about showing us how you haven't the most basic clue about aviation or any sense of shame, are you.
Old 04-30-2013, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

I have flown cargo with DC-10s and cargo shift was my largest concern. Heart breaking to watch ...
Old 04-30-2013, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: Eddie P


ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing striaght up, was the pilot knocked out? What was he trying to do? Hover the jet?
Sad but seriously PILOT Error!
You sure aren't shy about showing us how you haven't the most basic clue about aviation or any sense of shame, are you.

+1[:@]
Old 04-30-2013, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash

My God, the ignorance and insensitivity of some on this forum is astounding to me.
God bless the Crew and Loadmasters who lost their lives in this horrible accident.

Joe Grice
Old 04-30-2013, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: National 747 crash


ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

Would like to see more video, why was the jet pointing striaght up, was the pilot knocked out? What was he trying to do? Hover the jet?
Sad but seriously PILOT Error!
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