Elmtreepete

Hi all again,

madmodelman

I've just spent the best part of twenty minutes typing out my story and rcu's server dropped out when I posted. I'm not wasting my time again but here are the photo's of my brand new F86 flying for two minutes on my DX18!

Gary.

Elmtreepete

Gary,
Oh dear, bad news indeed.
I wonder, did you have indications of any problems with other models (ie, 'glitches'), before with the DX18, Or was this 'out of the blue' so to speak?

madmodelman

Hi Pete, in retrospect I did have a close shave with my Viper recently, engine shut to idle whilst climbing into a loop, came back again and I recovered it. Also a little foamy Spit went in twice and I accused the rx!
So yes, the clues were there and I missed them.
All this after a solid year without incident.
I should have been a bit sharper!

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Gary, Sorry to hear you lost your F86. Assuming you fitted all the RC correctly as you usually do the TX or RX with its power supply would have to be the problem, did you managed to recover any of your RC to check it out if it worked OK and if so what did you find? At least when you send it al back Horizon they have a very quick response and turn round. Unfortunately like all RC manufactures they have there hands tied regarding a response. You will find as I did when I sent mine back they can hardly accept any responsibility with out ending up reimbursing us for our loss. My DX18 when it was returned to Horizon had "no fault found" but was replaced with out having to ask twice FOC which is very good of them indeed but logically why replace a faultless TX? It is very awkward for all manufactures as replacing the Tx implies they had no confidence in my original TX ether. I had by then after losing three airframes completely lost confidence in my old or any DX18 Tx as the incidents' were to random and spaced apart and other incidents with DX18 TXs had been bought to my attention so I opted not to use the replacement and to go back to a brand I know and trust. What are you going to do now, hope they find a fault and rectify it then try again. If they replace it with another new Tx, hope its a good one and trust that one this time. Its a real shame as the DX18 Tx on paper is a terrific TX and very nice to use but wish they had a more consistent product.Will you go back to your proven JR12 or try something new as I did? I've been very pleased with my new choice of TX and its good to fly with confidence again.

madmodelman

Hi Mark, good to hear from you, all noted and agreed,

What the hell is up with rcu's damn server, I just typed out a hell of a long reply to you and their server dumped it before I had a chance to copy the text.

I've got to cut it short but in essence I don't know which way to turn as I fell back onto my DSX9 at Elvington at the weekend and something dumped my Hawk in, it wasn't the Tx though as I'd already flown the L39 ok.

Strange for HH, as you say they are normally very quick but it's nearly two weeks since they had it, maybe soak testing? I sent the foamy rx and asked them not to throw it in the bin and replace it but test thoroughly as if ok it would point to the DX18.

All batts are either A123 or Life's and all worked when pieced back together, there was unfortunately nothing at all left of the Hawk.

I am looking at a DSX11 or used DSX12 as I have about 30 DSM2 and DSMX rx's so it's not the right time for me to go DMSS yet. I just don't know.

Like you I loved the DX18 and all it's facilities, would I trust another? Again, I don't know yet, wait and see what HH find first I think.

All the best,

Gary.

madmodelman

Here ya go Mark, you tell me what to do.

Tx just arrived back, quote, Remarks-"Radio tested ok here, RF output within spec and did not drop signal on soak test."
Resolution-"RF board replaced and tested for your piece of mind. RF output higher than previous board and passed soak test with no drop in signal. Passed all further tests here."

£3.5 grand plus down the drain!

Gary.

Mark Vandervelden

Oh bad luck, That Hawk looks a mess and I suspect with so much damage you will never find out why :-(

madmodelman

That's life Mark, it's not as if my installations are bad but the Hawk was a cheapy although the lump is toast!

So.. Why replace the RF board if nothing's wrong on the DX18??????

Mark Vandervelden

Hum, your in all but the same boat I was 7 months ago but I had "no fault found" which perhaps is worse. "RF higher than before" I thought they are set to 100mw and that's that? if its now higher and still legal it must have been lower than allowed spec before but that's not to say that would be a problem in its self. In France I think they run at half our allowed output and don't seem to suffer for it. I believe for a wile UK DX18 TXs were putting out US levels of RF because I remember there was an update to fix it, I wonder if those that are not having issues are on the higher output, It might be worth correlating software versions and lockout or glitch issues, There are one or two well known pilots using the DX18 and it would be helpfull to confirm that there TXs are random out of the box and what softwer version there on?. Saying that other than those promoting the brand I don't see many DX18 TXs being used around here for jets mostly higher end Futaba and JR. A soak test is subjective as being on for long periods of time is not how we use them, usually its in 10-15 minuet slots and im sure they don't stand there and switch them on and off for a few days "or do they" :-). I spoke at length with Spektrums head guy "John Redman" wile at a huge hele event in the USA back in 2008ish about the issue that Spectrum had around then with there AR6### RXs. All these RXs were recalled and replaced FOC (again terrific after sales from Horizon). He explained that there was an issue with a algorithm or something in the code that could cause it to drop its connection with the Tx but it was only one in a million chance of every thing "not" lining up and this to happen, I personally never suffered a lockout with these RXs even though I used several in my pylon racers over hundreds of flights but with so many bits of code going back and fourth a million is not a very big number and other flyers obviously weren't so lucky. I wonder if a similar issue is present with the DX18? at least it would explain why some have no problems, some have to wait to have problems and other just have problems. Unfortunately I don't think chaseing any one for you fiscal loss will pay off, I too lost about the same amount but just had to right it off. It will prop cost more than you would gain to try and its hard if not imposable to prove fault. If any manufacture were to pay out after such a loss in similar circumstances it would open them up to huge losses so they would have to defend it at all costs and they have deep pockets to do so. Fortunately Horizon are amongst the best for after sales and back up but I know but that's no help to you or I in this case. Any way IMO we have to assume at least half the risk every time we let our pride and joys leave the ground and tear around at 150mph. At least no one was actually hurt which is something I would find hard to deal with if it were to happen to me and I had not done all I could to avoid it.

madmodelman

Hmmm, correct, as a matter of interest I was very lucky at Barkston, just before take off Martyn Little mentioned that there were cyclists on the airfield where cars normally chase about I was doing hori eights trimming and would normally have been overflying those guys without knowing they were there! Good job I held it tighter. Crash was only about 100 yds from their location.

pm sent Mark.

Elmtreepete

Gary / Mark,
Although i'm keeping my jets on the DSX9 at the moment until i've used other 'less valuable' models on the DX18, how long does one wait until you have enough confidence to put them back on the DX18, if ever??

Although the DSX9 has been a great radio, it's getting a bit long in the tooth now, and i've even considered getting a Futaba 14SG just for the jets and other large models and flogging the DX18, but that means more new rx's and i've already got loads of JR / Spektrum rx's!

More money, but what price for peace of mind??

Pete

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

FYI. My DX18 is the very same 18 that I have been flying with since their introduction to the UK. I had a beta tester unit for a short while, but that was an all black case. My 18 was taken from the shelf at my store after about the secomd week of them being on sale across the UK.
Regards Al

madmodelman

Pete, this is only my personal opinion but look at my post about six back, I am not risking any more of my jets on the DX18 under any circumstances, I've lost enough already.

I'd rather trust my DSX9 until I can afford something else, I have about 30 DSM2 and DSMX recievers in various models,

The Spektrum recievers work well, it's just the DX18 that can obviously strike you at any time!

I wouldn't say I'm the best pilot in the world but I'm not bad, nor is Mark or Martin who recently lost his F4, all to the DX.

Gary.

madmodelman

As a matter of interest I have always sung the praises of the 18 even quoting that if it's good enough for Ali it's good enough for me.
Mine was also one of the first batch Ali had in.

Al, would you expect me to take a chance with mine now at say the Nats?

Gary.

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Gary.
For me. Peace of mind is everything. if you have any doubt then dont use it. Especially not at an event. Did I read correctly that you also just lost your Hawk but to the DSX9?
I do read about reports of losses on the 18, but then again I also travel a fair amount and get to see a hell of allot of them in action. Just last week in Kentucky I can think of at least 2 dozen jets ( and thats just the ones I know personally ) all flying on the 18 with no issues that I saw.

Mark Vandervelden

Good Morning Ali, As the prob most prominent guy on the Jet scene using and promoting the DX18 its good to know that you stand behind the product. I know you have enough integratey to only use the DX18 if you had confidence in it and would not risk your very impressive and expensive airframes or public safety for the sake of mere product placement. If your putting on record that you have not had a single lockout or glitch as I and a very few others have had since starting to use the DX18 I of course believe you, after all you cant sneeze on a flight line nower days with out someone posting it on U-Tube or Tweeting it all round the world. Its good to know yours is working OK but dose not mean that others cant have issues with there DX18 which is why its important to know we are all using the very same product and in the same condition, IE which firmware and version, do you run it in. UK spec wile here and do you have a second TX for use in USA on the higher output or indeed set to a lower output if in some parts of Europe ? It might go some way to explain why established and competent modellers and myself using proven setups and some times the very same airframes and RC that had been used before find that now using the DX18 suddenly have issues when no such issues occurred for the "years" before or in my case also in the 7 months since moving away from it. Yours Sincerely Mark V

madmodelman

Removed, Double post.

madmodelman

Thanks for chiming in Al, yes, the Hawk was on the DSX9 but the Tx is not under suspicion, I'm pretty certain something went wrong on board but I will never know.
I'd already had the L39 on DSX9 up at Elvington before the Hawk and have given the Tx a really good thrashing last Sunday in a couple of prop models to confirm it is working ok.
Gary.

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Mark.
I can confirm that my set is very much a stock radio that came from Horizon UK form a regular shop delivery with uk settings. As you have noted. My movements within the hobby are quite well supervised. So the use of a non standard radio would be duly noted by some of my diligent observers.
No second TX for me. I have two DX12's but only one 18. The SD card feature means that I dont really require a second set as back up. I am not sure exactly what firmware I am running right now as the TX is at home. I can tell you that it is not the latest version. I am slow to update on these simply because I am lazy and re binding 40+ models is a chore.
I have had two lock out type situations with my DX-18. The first was with my T-33 whilst at top gun. This was not a lock out as such, rather a big loss of frames that lead to a moment of lessened control. It felt very much like a lock out though! Luckily I had Horizon team members at hand to assist and Pete Goldsmith set about doing a bunch of ground testing with a Data logger and through a process of elimination we found that replacing a single satellite antenna in the plane increased the range dramatically. To have better peace of mind I changed all of them and carried on flying the model with no issues.
The second was my new Airworld F-100. Whilst in Norway I was flying in formation with another F-100 and was waaaaay out there on a turnaround manoeuvre. Once again I felt a brief moment where control was compromised. Alarmingly, the model was heading away from me at the time. I managed to get control back and land the model. Investigation showed that antenna placement was less than ideal. Line of sight between the satellites and my tx was obscured by quite a few components that would have tested the radio link I am sure. I moved one of the satellites away from the fuel tank and turbine and all was well there after.
Regards Al

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Ali, Thanks for clearing that up and being so candid. If the incident you had with the T33 was the one I've seen on line were it kinder flicked out of a low knife edge pass "kudos" for being able to climb/wriggle out of such a sticky situation. With a such a small tail plane on that T33 it cant be all that forgiving and thought you had just pushed the envelope a tad to far but as you know only the guy on the stick really knows! I believe my DX18 must have came from the same batch as yours then, as if you recall I pre ordered it so assume it was one of the first in with you. Its a shame it let me down as I was and still am very impressed with the TX and had I not lost confidence with it would still be using it today, I do still use my old DX8 now belonging to my son on most weekends so still have faith in Spektrum just not the DX18t TX. I was on DMSX when my Jet went "bananas" and don't really fully comprehend just how many fades you can expect as apposed to DMS2 as its the nature of all ch hoping setups to lose a few. Of course I but did not have the benefit of Horizons engineers on hand to assess it after it or the other two went in but knowing Horizon im sure if they were to hand would have helped any one whether a show pilot or novice . I do know that when that jet was on DMS2 and on ether my JR12 or DX8 it always had a solid link according to the logger on all aerials every flight. This was always reassuring even though the benefit and genius of having diverse aerial placement is you only need no-fades on any one of any sat or main Rx at any one time, a concept that other users of other typs of RC don't seem to grasp and even try to dismiss. The other two hiccups I had with the DX18 was on both DMS2 and DMSX all spread over a period of months, I'm assuming you fly mostly on DMSX? Regards Mark V

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Mark.
No that video was my old Skymaster T-33 at Wings and wheels a few years ago and can only be attributed to dumb thumbs I am afraid ( Turns out a knife edge pass with the gear down is not such a good idea )
I hear what you are saying regards losing confidence. It was a brand new 9 ZAP back in the day that nailed my BVM Bandit at Chalgrove some years ago that made my mind up to make the switch. It went back to Ripmax and came back with no fault found... I then lost another jet ( total lock out ) and that was that....
I think I am 100% DSMX now on all my fleet.

Elmtreepete

Hi all,
Just an up-date, since getting the DX18 back from Horizon it's been fine - until I landed a slope soarer recently, went to switch the TX off and noticed that the screen was blank, although all functions worked fine.
It's happened a few times since, so it's gone back to Horizon UK again - a known problem evidently!
I have several club friends who have this radio and have had no problems - I guess I got a Friday afternoon one!!
Very disappointing to say the least.

Greg Wright

My Feedback: (6)

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!