What the hell is wrong with the modeling community these days??????
10-14-2013, 10:05 AM
#1
What the hell is wrong with the modeling community these days??????
Seriously, rant mode on......... If you don't want to read it, don't, I really don't care.
This thread is not about anyone specific, it's about the RC hobby in general and what I'm seeing.
2011 and 2012 saw no flying from me. For various reasons I did not fly RC at all during those years, some personal, some financial, and some, simply because I was tired of the drama, and bullsnit that has come into the hobby. During those 2 years, I didn't miss it to be honest. 2013 had me questioning whether I should keep my RC stuff or finally after 30+ years in the hobby sell it off. I decided to go out and fly again before I made my decision.
With that said, I want to take a step back in time for a minute.
When I started in this hobby as a young child with my dad, it was a community hobby. Sure, you will always have some personality conflicts, but in the local club, at events etc, people all enjoyed the hobby together and everyone took an interest in what everyone else did. We were just thankful to have options in models. We built our own airplanes, ARF's didn't exist. Some airplanes were still built poorly, some of the kits sucked, radio's were less reliable, airplanes crashed, people cut fingers, things happened, and we had a great time.
Fast forward to the ARF years, many people were drawn to ARF's as they were shiny, and prettier than what many people could build. They were also nearly impossible to repair with their foam skins (remember the EZ line of arf's?) and they didn't fly all that well, but a brand new one out of the box sure looked pretty. In the beginning, people took nearly as much pride in their ARF's as airplanes they'd built, because ARF's at the time by comparison were expensive.
As time went by, and China became more involved, ARF's dropped in price, as did most hobby items. People began to flock to the hobby because it was easier to get started, more easily afforded by anyone, and simply less work. Unfortunatley, what I've seen, is along with that, the community grew more clique's. This began to divide the community. You still had your focus groups, the heli guys, the pattern guys, the pylon guys etc, but the average sport flyer became more solitary.
Fast forward a few more years to turbines. I bought my first turbine in 1999. At that point and time, part of what I loved in turbine, well, jet modeling overall was that it felt like the "good old days" of modeling where the community was tight knit. We had to build our jets, there were no ARF's to speak of, they were kits. The onus of a properly built model fell on us, the modeler. There were great options out there, and everything cost a fortune. My first turbine jet was an original Kangaroo with a RAM750 and cost me $9000!!!!!! Look at what you can get today for 9K!!!! However, the jets that were out then, they worked. We put the time into building them.
As we continue on, I've seen the jet community turn into the average sport flyer community. The community has turned into cliques, the people involved for a large part, want those shiny affordable airplanes regardless of what they are.
I can accept all of that, but what is absolutely killing me these days, is the way people are expecting something for nothing, or, something great, for very little.
I'm not going to list any people or manufactures at all, because I've seen problems with virtually all of them in the 14 years I've now been involved in turbines. I don't post as often as many do, and I certainly don't fly as much as many of you do, but I read, I watch, and I listen and learn.
Here's what I've seen happen multiple times.
1. Airplane crashes due to structural failure and owner expects the manufacture to replace it. Where did this come from? Years ago, I had a great planes fun one that I built from a kit. (different scale I'm very aware) that when flown with the recommended 40 size engine, experienced massive flutter that tore the stabilizer off. I later learned that it had been an issue with the design and the fix had been to add a spruce spar along the trailing edge of the stab during construction. I loved that airplane, and was bummed when it crashed, but did I expect a new airplane from Great Planes? Not at all, and while one can argue that it was a $400 total loss as opposed to a $10,000 loss, at the end of the day, I was a 16 year old kid at the time that had saved for months and months in order to pay for that airplane and that loss to me, was just as important as a 10K loss would be to anyone here. I had crashed airplanes before, but they had been my fault. That airplane then taught me to never put anymore money into an airplane than I am prepared to lose. Just because I'm prepared to lose it doesn't mean I want to, but sh*t happens. I also lost a $2500 Meridian pattern ship that same year, wrecked all the coreless servo's, wrecked the receiver, wrecked a brand new YS91AC etc. Why? Radio failure. I sent the radio back to Futaba and they confirmed the transmitter had failed. Now, Futaba, they stepped up and replaced that (at the time) brand new Conquest 7, with the then BRAND new 8UAP. However, that brand new 8UAP failed later that year, fortunately, on the bench. I sent it in to Futaba for repair and they confirmed it was a component failure. I didn't make it my goal to run them through the mud, I switched ALL of my radio gear to JR, and moved on. I never once asked, or expected anything more from Futaba than to fix my radio.
I don't understand how we as modelers can expect a manufacture to replace an entire airframe, much less all lost components when something happens. Yes, I admit fully there have been absoluely OBVIOUS structural failures of certain models, I won't argue that at all. And in many cases, nothing is being done to fix the problem. While I said I wouldn't name any specific manufactures, I do want to note that BVM had a run of Kingcat boom failures. They didn't replace airplanes for people, however, they did make a fix that worked, and sent it out free of charge to those who had kingcats. And it was a fix that worked, even when we got stupid and largley overpowered the airplanes. They did it right. I don't remember seeing posts from people saying they felt BVM owed them free airplanes and engines and if those posts did exist, they certainly didn't end up with multiple posts on the front page in a matter of days. If a manufacture begins replacing people's losses, they set a precident that will only bankrupt any manufacture that follows suit. What is to then stop a modeler from saying "I'm bored with this jet but can't afford a new one, so I'm going to sabotage it so that it comes apart in the air and I can say it was a structural failure"? And after how many flights would it apply? In the first 10? Before the first 2 crashes and repairs? After the 3rd owner? How do you regulate? You can't. Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to refuse to replace somebodies loss due to structural failure? Probably not, Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to NOT issue a warning, ask people to stop flying that particular model until a CORRECT fix has been come up with? Absolutely!
2. The writing is on the wall with certain manufactures, there is thread after thread after thread about these airplanes, and yet there are still many people who continue to buy these things with the "it won't happen to me" attitude or "I can fix it" attitude and then they crash and expect the same things I mentioned above. I'm sorry, but at this point and time, anyone who buys a certain product when there is a KNOWN defect is an idiot. It's kind of like saying "I can do cocaine because I'm smart about how much I'm doing" but when you become addicted, or OD, you blame the drug. I'm sorry, you're an idiot for doing it in the first place!
This thread is not about anyone specific, it's about the RC hobby in general and what I'm seeing.
2011 and 2012 saw no flying from me. For various reasons I did not fly RC at all during those years, some personal, some financial, and some, simply because I was tired of the drama, and bullsnit that has come into the hobby. During those 2 years, I didn't miss it to be honest. 2013 had me questioning whether I should keep my RC stuff or finally after 30+ years in the hobby sell it off. I decided to go out and fly again before I made my decision.
With that said, I want to take a step back in time for a minute.
When I started in this hobby as a young child with my dad, it was a community hobby. Sure, you will always have some personality conflicts, but in the local club, at events etc, people all enjoyed the hobby together and everyone took an interest in what everyone else did. We were just thankful to have options in models. We built our own airplanes, ARF's didn't exist. Some airplanes were still built poorly, some of the kits sucked, radio's were less reliable, airplanes crashed, people cut fingers, things happened, and we had a great time.
Fast forward to the ARF years, many people were drawn to ARF's as they were shiny, and prettier than what many people could build. They were also nearly impossible to repair with their foam skins (remember the EZ line of arf's?) and they didn't fly all that well, but a brand new one out of the box sure looked pretty. In the beginning, people took nearly as much pride in their ARF's as airplanes they'd built, because ARF's at the time by comparison were expensive.
As time went by, and China became more involved, ARF's dropped in price, as did most hobby items. People began to flock to the hobby because it was easier to get started, more easily afforded by anyone, and simply less work. Unfortunatley, what I've seen, is along with that, the community grew more clique's. This began to divide the community. You still had your focus groups, the heli guys, the pattern guys, the pylon guys etc, but the average sport flyer became more solitary.
Fast forward a few more years to turbines. I bought my first turbine in 1999. At that point and time, part of what I loved in turbine, well, jet modeling overall was that it felt like the "good old days" of modeling where the community was tight knit. We had to build our jets, there were no ARF's to speak of, they were kits. The onus of a properly built model fell on us, the modeler. There were great options out there, and everything cost a fortune. My first turbine jet was an original Kangaroo with a RAM750 and cost me $9000!!!!!! Look at what you can get today for 9K!!!! However, the jets that were out then, they worked. We put the time into building them.
As we continue on, I've seen the jet community turn into the average sport flyer community. The community has turned into cliques, the people involved for a large part, want those shiny affordable airplanes regardless of what they are.
I can accept all of that, but what is absolutely killing me these days, is the way people are expecting something for nothing, or, something great, for very little.
I'm not going to list any people or manufactures at all, because I've seen problems with virtually all of them in the 14 years I've now been involved in turbines. I don't post as often as many do, and I certainly don't fly as much as many of you do, but I read, I watch, and I listen and learn.
Here's what I've seen happen multiple times.
1. Airplane crashes due to structural failure and owner expects the manufacture to replace it. Where did this come from? Years ago, I had a great planes fun one that I built from a kit. (different scale I'm very aware) that when flown with the recommended 40 size engine, experienced massive flutter that tore the stabilizer off. I later learned that it had been an issue with the design and the fix had been to add a spruce spar along the trailing edge of the stab during construction. I loved that airplane, and was bummed when it crashed, but did I expect a new airplane from Great Planes? Not at all, and while one can argue that it was a $400 total loss as opposed to a $10,000 loss, at the end of the day, I was a 16 year old kid at the time that had saved for months and months in order to pay for that airplane and that loss to me, was just as important as a 10K loss would be to anyone here. I had crashed airplanes before, but they had been my fault. That airplane then taught me to never put anymore money into an airplane than I am prepared to lose. Just because I'm prepared to lose it doesn't mean I want to, but sh*t happens. I also lost a $2500 Meridian pattern ship that same year, wrecked all the coreless servo's, wrecked the receiver, wrecked a brand new YS91AC etc. Why? Radio failure. I sent the radio back to Futaba and they confirmed the transmitter had failed. Now, Futaba, they stepped up and replaced that (at the time) brand new Conquest 7, with the then BRAND new 8UAP. However, that brand new 8UAP failed later that year, fortunately, on the bench. I sent it in to Futaba for repair and they confirmed it was a component failure. I didn't make it my goal to run them through the mud, I switched ALL of my radio gear to JR, and moved on. I never once asked, or expected anything more from Futaba than to fix my radio.
I don't understand how we as modelers can expect a manufacture to replace an entire airframe, much less all lost components when something happens. Yes, I admit fully there have been absoluely OBVIOUS structural failures of certain models, I won't argue that at all. And in many cases, nothing is being done to fix the problem. While I said I wouldn't name any specific manufactures, I do want to note that BVM had a run of Kingcat boom failures. They didn't replace airplanes for people, however, they did make a fix that worked, and sent it out free of charge to those who had kingcats. And it was a fix that worked, even when we got stupid and largley overpowered the airplanes. They did it right. I don't remember seeing posts from people saying they felt BVM owed them free airplanes and engines and if those posts did exist, they certainly didn't end up with multiple posts on the front page in a matter of days. If a manufacture begins replacing people's losses, they set a precident that will only bankrupt any manufacture that follows suit. What is to then stop a modeler from saying "I'm bored with this jet but can't afford a new one, so I'm going to sabotage it so that it comes apart in the air and I can say it was a structural failure"? And after how many flights would it apply? In the first 10? Before the first 2 crashes and repairs? After the 3rd owner? How do you regulate? You can't. Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to refuse to replace somebodies loss due to structural failure? Probably not, Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to NOT issue a warning, ask people to stop flying that particular model until a CORRECT fix has been come up with? Absolutely!
2. The writing is on the wall with certain manufactures, there is thread after thread after thread about these airplanes, and yet there are still many people who continue to buy these things with the "it won't happen to me" attitude or "I can fix it" attitude and then they crash and expect the same things I mentioned above. I'm sorry, but at this point and time, anyone who buys a certain product when there is a KNOWN defect is an idiot. It's kind of like saying "I can do cocaine because I'm smart about how much I'm doing" but when you become addicted, or OD, you blame the drug. I'm sorry, you're an idiot for doing it in the first place!
10-14-2013, 10:05 AM
#2
3. Lets ban XXXXX from whatever. If you are an event CD, or even a club, you can establish a rule to allow or disallow anything you want I suppose. And when it comes to a known unsafe product, you are very much in your rights to ban it. However, people have very much adopted this "the sky is falling" attitude, especially in jets. The perception that these models are dangerous in recent years has been highly magnified not by people without knowledge, but by people within our own community. I see this as happening in 2 methods. First, multiple posts about the SAME TOPIC essentially in the forum that get jumped on over and over by everyone. These then post to the front page of RCU as a hot topic, and now we have RC car guys, we have foamy guys, we have heli guys, we have everyone under the sun coming in, reading THOSE threads and gaining the knowledge that these things are dangerous, they come apart and explode! The second issue lies within these threads with the "what happens when one of these things kills somebody??????" Well, to be blunt, the same thing that happens when ANY other model kills somebody! Why are we getting so dramatic when it comes to Jets? Do we somehow WANT to believe that we're flying something deadly? Do we want to revel in drama? It's total crap. Yes, sure, a 200mph jet hitting somebody is going to kill them. And it's going to do it whether it comes apart in the air, or is guided into somebody by a pilot that's totally f'd up in flight. Guess what, a 200mph 40 size pylon plane is going to kill somebody if it hits them too, an 80mph 40% Edge is going to kill somebody if it hits them. A large Heli swinging a 6' rotor is going to kill somebody if it hits them.
My question is, those of you who feel that an airplane is going to kill somebody, how are your clubs set up? Every place I've flown there are very clear no fly zones, such as over the pits, low passes are to be done on the far side of the runway, there is an established flight line etc. An airplane coming apart has no directional control anymore, agreed, neither does an airplane with a servo failure, or a radio lockout, or being flown by somebody who shouldn't be flying it. To start advertising that a Jet specifically could kill somebody is idiotic, particularly when you start to attempt to show that at a level where gov't intervention becomes possible. At the end of the day, if you're concerned about a jet killing somebody but feel that all other aspects of RC are safer, this probably isn't the hobby for you, but then, neither should driving, or walking, or pretty much doing anything be something you should be involved in. Yes, we want to protect our hobby, but there are many area's that have cropped up in this hobby that will be the death of RC long before turbine modeling will be. My guess is that FPV is what will eventually get this hobby heavily regulated. The fact of the matter is, Jet modeling is still IMO one of the safest sides of this hobby. For the most part, safety is on people's minds with proper start up area's, fire extinguishers present, spotters being used etc. Sadly, the biggest piece of Safety equipment that should be present with every form of RC modeling is what is lacking, that is common sense.
In the past couple of months, I have witnessed more personal attacks, more drama, and more "the sky is falling" attitudes in RC modeling than ever before. What is the answer, hell if I know, but what I do know, is the way many of the "victims" (and I use the term extremely loosely) come online and vent, complain, and threaten, is not the answer. We as jet modelers should be doing things far more proactively than we are. Trying to focus on things that will bring bad publicity and attention to us is not the answer. Posting on RCU isn't even the answer. The answer lies at the very basic level, through education, common sense and enforcement of our safety. At the end of the day, I know there is one manufacture (that unless you're living under a rock you'll know who I'm talking about) everyone is pissed off at and I get it, I've been screwed by them personally in a big way as well, but there is an old saying that "there is no such thing as bad publicity" rings very true here. There are many that want this manufacture shut down, and I get that, but what is happening way to much on here is fear mongering, there are many false accusations being thrown around, and in general, just a whole lot of BS that makes this side of the RC hobby look bad. In the meantime, these threads are letting EVERYONE know that they exist, and when people just skim through, chances are they'll catch the pretty pictures posted by the people who've had great success and THAT is what will draw them to the product. You've just advertised for that manufacture.
The truth is, there is no easy answer, and nothing will happen overnight. EVEN IF we could create a big enough list of people that wanted to ban any particular manufacture, or aspect of the hobby, that will take a huge amount of time and the results at the end would likely be remarkably detrimental to our hobby. These are things that need to be dealt with at a local level. There will be people buying these products who never come on RCU, will never see the warnings, but still fly at local sanctioned fields. Use diplomacy and be proactive in sorting out the problems. Express concern for a product at a club level, or at an event, require an airframe inspection prior to flying and if it is a known product with issues, ask what has been done to correct those issues, if nothing, as a CD, it is your right to allow somebody to fly or not. Yes, you might upset somebody, but look at what this entire forum has turned into recently.
Myself personally, why I keep getting drawn into this crap on the forums I don't know, I know I'm a stubborn personality, and I know I've made mistakes myself in the past. But the fact is, this hobby is supposed to be fun, and no matter what you are involved in, when there is a community of people involved, and it grows, problems will arise. But creating a sense of urgency, creating drama, all of that, it takes the fun out of it for everyone. Before one makes posts with suggestions, makes posts with demands, makes posts with negative connotation, take a minute to think about how that post might be perceived. Think about the bigger picture. Be realistic in your expectations in this hobby in regards to others.
I know that I'll get comments here like "yeah, great post, thanks for telling us what we already know but what is the answer......." There will be multiple people who make the "good job captain obvious" and yet, those will be the same people in the other threads making the same statements, making the same accusations, over and over and over.
Take this post however you want, frankly after 30 years in the hobby, I still enjoy the flying part, but I miss the social aspect how it used to be, and it's getting to the point where if I really have to start worrying about the crap being thrown around in forums and the "predictions by the so called experts", maybe it really is time to move on to something different, but, for the immediate future, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself, I sincerely hope that you all can do the same.
Jeremy
My question is, those of you who feel that an airplane is going to kill somebody, how are your clubs set up? Every place I've flown there are very clear no fly zones, such as over the pits, low passes are to be done on the far side of the runway, there is an established flight line etc. An airplane coming apart has no directional control anymore, agreed, neither does an airplane with a servo failure, or a radio lockout, or being flown by somebody who shouldn't be flying it. To start advertising that a Jet specifically could kill somebody is idiotic, particularly when you start to attempt to show that at a level where gov't intervention becomes possible. At the end of the day, if you're concerned about a jet killing somebody but feel that all other aspects of RC are safer, this probably isn't the hobby for you, but then, neither should driving, or walking, or pretty much doing anything be something you should be involved in. Yes, we want to protect our hobby, but there are many area's that have cropped up in this hobby that will be the death of RC long before turbine modeling will be. My guess is that FPV is what will eventually get this hobby heavily regulated. The fact of the matter is, Jet modeling is still IMO one of the safest sides of this hobby. For the most part, safety is on people's minds with proper start up area's, fire extinguishers present, spotters being used etc. Sadly, the biggest piece of Safety equipment that should be present with every form of RC modeling is what is lacking, that is common sense.
In the past couple of months, I have witnessed more personal attacks, more drama, and more "the sky is falling" attitudes in RC modeling than ever before. What is the answer, hell if I know, but what I do know, is the way many of the "victims" (and I use the term extremely loosely) come online and vent, complain, and threaten, is not the answer. We as jet modelers should be doing things far more proactively than we are. Trying to focus on things that will bring bad publicity and attention to us is not the answer. Posting on RCU isn't even the answer. The answer lies at the very basic level, through education, common sense and enforcement of our safety. At the end of the day, I know there is one manufacture (that unless you're living under a rock you'll know who I'm talking about) everyone is pissed off at and I get it, I've been screwed by them personally in a big way as well, but there is an old saying that "there is no such thing as bad publicity" rings very true here. There are many that want this manufacture shut down, and I get that, but what is happening way to much on here is fear mongering, there are many false accusations being thrown around, and in general, just a whole lot of BS that makes this side of the RC hobby look bad. In the meantime, these threads are letting EVERYONE know that they exist, and when people just skim through, chances are they'll catch the pretty pictures posted by the people who've had great success and THAT is what will draw them to the product. You've just advertised for that manufacture.
The truth is, there is no easy answer, and nothing will happen overnight. EVEN IF we could create a big enough list of people that wanted to ban any particular manufacture, or aspect of the hobby, that will take a huge amount of time and the results at the end would likely be remarkably detrimental to our hobby. These are things that need to be dealt with at a local level. There will be people buying these products who never come on RCU, will never see the warnings, but still fly at local sanctioned fields. Use diplomacy and be proactive in sorting out the problems. Express concern for a product at a club level, or at an event, require an airframe inspection prior to flying and if it is a known product with issues, ask what has been done to correct those issues, if nothing, as a CD, it is your right to allow somebody to fly or not. Yes, you might upset somebody, but look at what this entire forum has turned into recently.
Myself personally, why I keep getting drawn into this crap on the forums I don't know, I know I'm a stubborn personality, and I know I've made mistakes myself in the past. But the fact is, this hobby is supposed to be fun, and no matter what you are involved in, when there is a community of people involved, and it grows, problems will arise. But creating a sense of urgency, creating drama, all of that, it takes the fun out of it for everyone. Before one makes posts with suggestions, makes posts with demands, makes posts with negative connotation, take a minute to think about how that post might be perceived. Think about the bigger picture. Be realistic in your expectations in this hobby in regards to others.
I know that I'll get comments here like "yeah, great post, thanks for telling us what we already know but what is the answer......." There will be multiple people who make the "good job captain obvious" and yet, those will be the same people in the other threads making the same statements, making the same accusations, over and over and over.
Take this post however you want, frankly after 30 years in the hobby, I still enjoy the flying part, but I miss the social aspect how it used to be, and it's getting to the point where if I really have to start worrying about the crap being thrown around in forums and the "predictions by the so called experts", maybe it really is time to move on to something different, but, for the immediate future, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself, I sincerely hope that you all can do the same.
Jeremy
10-14-2013, 10:26 AM
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I feel your pain... and I kind of laugh at some of the posts I see. If there are obvious issues with these "Import" models... then why keep buying them?
I'm right with you on time, and feelings of the hobby. I grew up in SoCal, and worked at Hobby Shack in the lat 80's and early 90's as a teenage'r, and I loved the EZ kits. But, back then, they were EXPENSIVE !!!!! I could build for half the price.
AND... you are right about over powered models. Back in the day... if you could get a good 40 degree climb out... you were king of the hill. Now guys want to be able to accelerate vertical... and then not expect to rip the wings off when they pull over, on the top, while still holding full power.
Anyway... if you like the hobby... then don't let the negative people get to you. I myself, just changed clubs because of the political BS. So... a "Change in scenery" could be what you need.
I'm right with you on time, and feelings of the hobby. I grew up in SoCal, and worked at Hobby Shack in the lat 80's and early 90's as a teenage'r, and I loved the EZ kits. But, back then, they were EXPENSIVE !!!!! I could build for half the price.
AND... you are right about over powered models. Back in the day... if you could get a good 40 degree climb out... you were king of the hill. Now guys want to be able to accelerate vertical... and then not expect to rip the wings off when they pull over, on the top, while still holding full power.
Anyway... if you like the hobby... then don't let the negative people get to you. I myself, just changed clubs because of the political BS. So... a "Change in scenery" could be what you need.
10-14-2013, 12:27 PM
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You did say that if people don't want to read what you put then don't. Well I started to read but I am afraid gave up half way through. Have you ever heard the old addage 'less is more'
Keep it shorter dude more people will read it
Also I have never known a person to exceed the number of words per post
Keep it shorter dude more people will read it
Also I have never known a person to exceed the number of words per post
Last edited by Jetflyer3000; 10-14-2013 at 12:29 PM.
10-14-2013, 12:48 PM
#7
You did say that if people don't want to read what you put then don't. Well I started to read but I am afraid gave up half way through. Have you ever heard the old addage 'less is more'
Keep it shorter dude more people will read it
Also I have never known a person to exceed the number of words per post
Keep it shorter dude more people will read it
Also I have never known a person to exceed the number of words per post
10-14-2013, 01:10 PM
#9
My Feedback: (86)
Yea, it's pretty much RCU Forums. The events are still great and so is the day by day flying at the field. My warbird buddies laugh so hard at all of us because of these threads!
Jeremy...I solved the burnout, non-flying and got back into it for the fun of the hobby by building a Meister Scale FW190A-8 1/4 scale kit! It has been a blast dude! Also, new rule for me on Jets...NO R&D, get one of the first 10, new airframe...helping hands any longer for any of these companies...just build a proven airframe and fly!
Rex
Jeremy...I solved the burnout, non-flying and got back into it for the fun of the hobby by building a Meister Scale FW190A-8 1/4 scale kit! It has been a blast dude! Also, new rule for me on Jets...NO R&D, get one of the first 10, new airframe...helping hands any longer for any of these companies...just build a proven airframe and fly!
Rex
10-14-2013, 01:34 PM
#11
Yea, it's pretty much RCU Forums. The events are still great and so is the day by day flying at the field. My warbird buddies laugh so hard at all of us because of these threads!
Jeremy...I solved the burnout, non-flying and got back into it for the fun of the hobby by building a Meister Scale FW190A-8 1/4 scale kit! It has been a blast dude! Also, new rule for me on Jets...NO R&D, get one of the first 10, new airframe...helping hands any longer for any of these companies...just build a proven airframe and fly!
Rex
Jeremy...I solved the burnout, non-flying and got back into it for the fun of the hobby by building a Meister Scale FW190A-8 1/4 scale kit! It has been a blast dude! Also, new rule for me on Jets...NO R&D, get one of the first 10, new airframe...helping hands any longer for any of these companies...just build a proven airframe and fly!
Rex
Events and flying are still great - and the forum is entertaining reading at lunch!
Heck Rex and I have had differing opinions on FEJ for quite some time and I consider him a good flying buddy. 
I've recently gotten back to building again too. I finally finished my scratch-built Panther (99% anyway - a scale model is never finished...) and I'm about to start on a Mick Reeves Hawker Hunter KIT, not the ARF! Actually, I'm like the 4th owner of that kit, but this owner is going to *build* it. I'm psyched - even if it will take 18 months (or more) to finish!
Bob
10-14-2013, 02:17 PM
#12
The RC hobby is better than ever!
When RC got started, it was mainly a hobby for electronic experimenters. Later, model airplane enthusiasts joined in to start fooling around with radio equipment. For the longest while, RC modeling was indeed a hobby for builders, the flying part was secondary. Once radios became a bit more reliable, people started enjoying the flying part. Before long, they liked flying more than building. Enter the ARF. Our free market responded to the needs of the marketplace. Some guys found they liked flying RC planes a lot more than building them. Others found they simply did not have the time to build.
Things are a lot different now. Radios and engines are, for the most part, very reliable. The airplanes, for the most part, are awesome and fly phenomenally well. Kit and ARF quality is better than I have ever seen. Of course, there will always be a bad apple here and there, but isn't that true with everything else in life?
There is something for everyone in this hobby. That's the beauty of it, and it's better now than it has ever been.
As for clubs, there are good and bad, just like anything in life. The club where I fly my Hotspot is awesome, Great guys, great field, great events. Of course, some clubs aren't so good.
Then there are forums. They are great for getting help and buying and selling. Once things degenerate into opinions; however, things can get ugly fast, and there is no escape. It just gets worse and worse. I've been there. When it comes to forums keep your comments short and don't linger. If necessary, just get off. You will never get the last word, ever!
Ever notice the top flyers tend to stay away? These forums can drive you nuts. The less time you spend on them the better.
When RC got started, it was mainly a hobby for electronic experimenters. Later, model airplane enthusiasts joined in to start fooling around with radio equipment. For the longest while, RC modeling was indeed a hobby for builders, the flying part was secondary. Once radios became a bit more reliable, people started enjoying the flying part. Before long, they liked flying more than building. Enter the ARF. Our free market responded to the needs of the marketplace. Some guys found they liked flying RC planes a lot more than building them. Others found they simply did not have the time to build.
Things are a lot different now. Radios and engines are, for the most part, very reliable. The airplanes, for the most part, are awesome and fly phenomenally well. Kit and ARF quality is better than I have ever seen. Of course, there will always be a bad apple here and there, but isn't that true with everything else in life?
There is something for everyone in this hobby. That's the beauty of it, and it's better now than it has ever been.
As for clubs, there are good and bad, just like anything in life. The club where I fly my Hotspot is awesome, Great guys, great field, great events. Of course, some clubs aren't so good.
Then there are forums. They are great for getting help and buying and selling. Once things degenerate into opinions; however, things can get ugly fast, and there is no escape. It just gets worse and worse. I've been there. When it comes to forums keep your comments short and don't linger. If necessary, just get off. You will never get the last word, ever!
Ever notice the top flyers tend to stay away? These forums can drive you nuts. The less time you spend on them the better.
10-14-2013, 02:22 PM
#13
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I've only been into jets for a few months and was pleased to find this forum to give me something to read about other peoples experiences and builds etc (the uk forums are a bit quiet, and I see a few familiar names on here). However, over the past 3-4 weeks, since this FEJ thing, its the same thing practically every day.
I think its been said enough, lock the thread leave them as stickies etc to warn potential new owners and just get back to talking about flying, building, owning or drooling over someone elses jet that you can't afford (I do a lot of the last bit)
Cheers,
Simon
I think its been said enough, lock the thread leave them as stickies etc to warn potential new owners and just get back to talking about flying, building, owning or drooling over someone elses jet that you can't afford (I do a lot of the last bit)
Cheers,
Simon
10-14-2013, 02:38 PM
#14
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I too love the smell of Jet Fuel in the morning -- Love it! Addicted to it!
The great state of the Hobby now is you can actually fly so many kinds of planes and power plants that didn't exist when we were younger. I guess back then we couldn't afford it anyway.
The guys in my club are AWESOME. It's all about having fun and enjoying each other's company. Most of the guys I hang with are truly accomplished and interesting guys. No blah blah blah blah blah, I know everything guys.
RCU sometimes gets like a woman just wanting to vent and be heard. We have two ears -- one to let it in and one to let it out. All the while ignoring everything but bits and pieces and frequently saying "Umm Hmm" and "I Understand".
Even guys wrapped up in the whine fest on RCU, I've found can still be pretty cool guys in person.
There's something about a keyboard and a forum that encourages opinions that would normally be kept to oneself.
Many many times I've read about things on RCU that have saved me lots of time, money and crashes. Enjoy the good, ignore the bad. Enjoy the hobby, If it's not fun, fix it so it is, or find another hobby
Happy Flying,
Steve
The great state of the Hobby now is you can actually fly so many kinds of planes and power plants that didn't exist when we were younger. I guess back then we couldn't afford it anyway.
The guys in my club are AWESOME. It's all about having fun and enjoying each other's company. Most of the guys I hang with are truly accomplished and interesting guys. No blah blah blah blah blah, I know everything guys.
RCU sometimes gets like a woman just wanting to vent and be heard. We have two ears -- one to let it in and one to let it out. All the while ignoring everything but bits and pieces and frequently saying "Umm Hmm" and "I Understand".
Even guys wrapped up in the whine fest on RCU, I've found can still be pretty cool guys in person.
There's something about a keyboard and a forum that encourages opinions that would normally be kept to oneself.
Many many times I've read about things on RCU that have saved me lots of time, money and crashes. Enjoy the good, ignore the bad. Enjoy the hobby, If it's not fun, fix it so it is, or find another hobby
Happy Flying,
Steve
10-14-2013, 03:04 PM
#16
Jeremy, I read every word of your post and agree with you on many points. Let's all face it, we are in the world of reality TV, internet on line forums, ARF's, etc., etc.. The list could go on and on; people have changed. How often do we sit down and write a letter? Many things are now lost arts. I have a 20 yr old who didn't know what a record player was.
In my business I often interview college graduates who cannot put a sentence together. Our society has gotten soft, everyone does not deserve a trophy for trying. Getting beat and spitting blood builds character, and so does winning.
People are always going to slow down and look at the wreck. The same applies to the over and over forum post' of the impending doom of our hobby. For me, I choose to walk my own path and make my own decisions. Research is good and opinions are always welcome, but in the end, I will decide what is good for me and not ***** about it if it does not work out well.
I'd love to teach a kid to fly if one would just show up at the field.
I guess that's my rant.
In my business I often interview college graduates who cannot put a sentence together. Our society has gotten soft, everyone does not deserve a trophy for trying. Getting beat and spitting blood builds character, and so does winning.
People are always going to slow down and look at the wreck. The same applies to the over and over forum post' of the impending doom of our hobby. For me, I choose to walk my own path and make my own decisions. Research is good and opinions are always welcome, but in the end, I will decide what is good for me and not ***** about it if it does not work out well.
I'd love to teach a kid to fly if one would just show up at the field.
I guess that's my rant.
10-14-2013, 04:11 PM
#17
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ive been flying since 1940 all kinds of planes>> i never seen all the bull that people write on here> iam 81 and will fly till my time comes up>> you dont have to listen to what people say > jusy try and enjoy yourself>>
10-14-2013, 04:19 PM
#18
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Jeremy,
Epic Rant,
I applaud you
. All valid points IMHO. I am relatively new to this hobby just a little over 6 yrs. But in a very short time, with a great flying club,flying buddies and family I find the same values you covet. I only see the negatives with the exception of one or two social conflict that arise (those seem to be inevitable) in RCU Forums.
I feel I have had great tutors who have done everything to help me grow as a flyer and a builder. I have made mistakes as both a flyer and builder and can only point to one source of those mistakes me. I am responsible for what I purchase, how I build and how I fly. I feel today very competent in the hobby and can only thank those who have given me their encouragement, training, time and opinions. I can still learn more and not once when I have a question has someone not taken the time to help.
I'm not doing jets... larger gassers now, but yet as you stated no matter the size of the investment or plane they still impact a person when they are lost.
I say don't let the little people keep you down. I love flying but to be honest, it is the feel of community and brotherhood that is the biggest draw for me. I haven't felt that since I played HS athletics. IMO a feeling not easily captured. My 13yr old daughter helps at the field my wife bakes cookies and has as many friends as I do. I don't bake cookies. But I can cook a mean steak. Family, friends and fun the rest is noise.
I mostly read on the forums hence only what 100 odd posts but felt compelled to support the "Jerry Maguire Manifesto" and encourage you that what you like about the hobby is the same for others.
As for those who like to air out the negative or work an angle...meh just noise.....
Z
Epic Rant,
I applaud you
. All valid points IMHO. I am relatively new to this hobby just a little over 6 yrs. But in a very short time, with a great flying club,flying buddies and family I find the same values you covet. I only see the negatives with the exception of one or two social conflict that arise (those seem to be inevitable) in RCU Forums.I feel I have had great tutors who have done everything to help me grow as a flyer and a builder. I have made mistakes as both a flyer and builder and can only point to one source of those mistakes me. I am responsible for what I purchase, how I build and how I fly. I feel today very competent in the hobby and can only thank those who have given me their encouragement, training, time and opinions. I can still learn more and not once when I have a question has someone not taken the time to help.
I'm not doing jets... larger gassers now, but yet as you stated no matter the size of the investment or plane they still impact a person when they are lost.
I say don't let the little people keep you down. I love flying but to be honest, it is the feel of community and brotherhood that is the biggest draw for me. I haven't felt that since I played HS athletics. IMO a feeling not easily captured. My 13yr old daughter helps at the field my wife bakes cookies and has as many friends as I do. I don't bake cookies. But I can cook a mean steak. Family, friends and fun the rest is noise.
I mostly read on the forums hence only what 100 odd posts but felt compelled to support the "Jerry Maguire Manifesto" and encourage you that what you like about the hobby is the same for others.
As for those who like to air out the negative or work an angle...meh just noise.....
Z
10-14-2013, 05:18 PM
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Great rant. I fly at a public field. I fly what I want. It is a hobby the way I want it. No drama. I can build and fly, ARF and fly, Or RTF and fly. And it's not anyone's business but mine. Kinda reminds me of the punchline to a joke I once heard; "Who do you think you're going to please with that?" The guy says, "ME!"
10-14-2013, 05:22 PM
#21
Senior Member
Screw other hobbyists... I'm in this for myself! Every once in a while I get the urge to create some dreams for the kiddos. I made this for my neighbors' grand kids.
I've been in this hobby a long time. Not as long as some but longer than most. I make my own fun. If others want to join in the reindeer games then... GREAT! Screw all the whiners and complainers and etc.! They can 'play' elsewhere. If they get in my face then look the h#ll out because I don't fool around!
I've been in this hobby a long time. Not as long as some but longer than most. I make my own fun. If others want to join in the reindeer games then... GREAT! Screw all the whiners and complainers and etc.! They can 'play' elsewhere. If they get in my face then look the h#ll out because I don't fool around!
10-14-2013, 07:41 PM
#23
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Seriously, rant mode on......... If you don't want to read it, don't, I really don't care.
This thread is not about anyone specific, it's about the RC hobby in general and what I'm seeing.
2011 and 2012 saw no flying from me. For various reasons I did not fly RC at all during those years, some personal, some financial, and some, simply because I was tired of the drama, and bullsnit that has come into the hobby. During those 2 years, I didn't miss it to be honest. 2013 had me questioning whether I should keep my RC stuff or finally after 30+ years in the hobby sell it off. I decided to go out and fly again before I made my decision.
With that said, I want to take a step back in time for a minute.
When I started in this hobby as a young child with my dad, it was a community hobby. Sure, you will always have some personality conflicts, but in the local club, at events etc, people all enjoyed the hobby together and everyone took an interest in what everyone else did. We were just thankful to have options in models. We built our own airplanes, ARF's didn't exist. Some airplanes were still built poorly, some of the kits sucked, radio's were less reliable, airplanes crashed, people cut fingers, things happened, and we had a great time.
Fast forward to the ARF years, many people were drawn to ARF's as they were shiny, and prettier than what many people could build. They were also nearly impossible to repair with their foam skins (remember the EZ line of arf's?) and they didn't fly all that well, but a brand new one out of the box sure looked pretty. In the beginning, people took nearly as much pride in their ARF's as airplanes they'd built, because ARF's at the time by comparison were expensive.
As time went by, and China became more involved, ARF's dropped in price, as did most hobby items. People began to flock to the hobby because it was easier to get started, more easily afforded by anyone, and simply less work. Unfortunatley, what I've seen, is along with that, the community grew more clique's. This began to divide the community. You still had your focus groups, the heli guys, the pattern guys, the pylon guys etc, but the average sport flyer became more solitary.
Fast forward a few more years to turbines. I bought my first turbine in 1999. At that point and time, part of what I loved in turbine, well, jet modeling overall was that it felt like the "good old days" of modeling where the community was tight knit. We had to build our jets, there were no ARF's to speak of, they were kits. The onus of a properly built model fell on us, the modeler. There were great options out there, and everything cost a fortune. My first turbine jet was an original Kangaroo with a RAM750 and cost me $9000!!!!!! Look at what you can get today for 9K!!!! However, the jets that were out then, they worked. We put the time into building them.
As we continue on, I've seen the jet community turn into the average sport flyer community. The community has turned into cliques, the people involved for a large part, want those shiny affordable airplanes regardless of what they are.
I can accept all of that, but what is absolutely killing me these days, is the way people are expecting something for nothing, or, something great, for very little.
I'm not going to list any people or manufactures at all, because I've seen problems with virtually all of them in the 14 years I've now been involved in turbines. I don't post as often as many do, and I certainly don't fly as much as many of you do, but I read, I watch, and I listen and learn.
Here's what I've seen happen multiple times.
1. Airplane crashes due to structural failure and owner expects the manufacture to replace it. Where did this come from? Years ago, I had a great planes fun one that I built from a kit. (different scale I'm very aware) that when flown with the recommended 40 size engine, experienced massive flutter that tore the stabilizer off. I later learned that it had been an issue with the design and the fix had been to add a spruce spar along the trailing edge of the stab during construction. I loved that airplane, and was bummed when it crashed, but did I expect a new airplane from Great Planes? Not at all, and while one can argue that it was a $400 total loss as opposed to a $10,000 loss, at the end of the day, I was a 16 year old kid at the time that had saved for months and months in order to pay for that airplane and that loss to me, was just as important as a 10K loss would be to anyone here. I had crashed airplanes before, but they had been my fault. That airplane then taught me to never put anymore money into an airplane than I am prepared to lose. Just because I'm prepared to lose it doesn't mean I want to, but sh*t happens. I also lost a $2500 Meridian pattern ship that same year, wrecked all the coreless servo's, wrecked the receiver, wrecked a brand new YS91AC etc. Why? Radio failure. I sent the radio back to Futaba and they confirmed the transmitter had failed. Now, Futaba, they stepped up and replaced that (at the time) brand new Conquest 7, with the then BRAND new 8UAP. However, that brand new 8UAP failed later that year, fortunately, on the bench. I sent it in to Futaba for repair and they confirmed it was a component failure. I didn't make it my goal to run them through the mud, I switched ALL of my radio gear to JR, and moved on. I never once asked, or expected anything more from Futaba than to fix my radio.
I don't understand how we as modelers can expect a manufacture to replace an entire airframe, much less all lost components when something happens. Yes, I admit fully there have been absoluely OBVIOUS structural failures of certain models, I won't argue that at all. And in many cases, nothing is being done to fix the problem. While I said I wouldn't name any specific manufactures, I do want to note that BVM had a run of Kingcat boom failures. They didn't replace airplanes for people, however, they did make a fix that worked, and sent it out free of charge to those who had kingcats. And it was a fix that worked, even when we got stupid and largley overpowered the airplanes. They did it right. I don't remember seeing posts from people saying they felt BVM owed them free airplanes and engines and if those posts did exist, they certainly didn't end up with multiple posts on the front page in a matter of days. If a manufacture begins replacing people's losses, they set a precident that will only bankrupt any manufacture that follows suit. What is to then stop a modeler from saying "I'm bored with this jet but can't afford a new one, so I'm going to sabotage it so that it comes apart in the air and I can say it was a structural failure"? And after how many flights would it apply? In the first 10? Before the first 2 crashes and repairs? After the 3rd owner? How do you regulate? You can't. Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to refuse to replace somebodies loss due to structural failure? Probably not, Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to NOT issue a warning, ask people to stop flying that particular model until a CORRECT fix has been come up with? Absolutely!
2. The writing is on the wall with certain manufactures, there is thread after thread after thread about these airplanes, and yet there are still many people who continue to buy these things with the "it won't happen to me" attitude or "I can fix it" attitude and then they crash and expect the same things I mentioned above. I'm sorry, but at this point and time, anyone who buys a certain product when there is a KNOWN defect is an idiot. It's kind of like saying "I can do cocaine because I'm smart about how much I'm doing" but when you become addicted, or OD, you blame the drug. I'm sorry, you're an idiot for doing it in the first place!
This thread is not about anyone specific, it's about the RC hobby in general and what I'm seeing.
2011 and 2012 saw no flying from me. For various reasons I did not fly RC at all during those years, some personal, some financial, and some, simply because I was tired of the drama, and bullsnit that has come into the hobby. During those 2 years, I didn't miss it to be honest. 2013 had me questioning whether I should keep my RC stuff or finally after 30+ years in the hobby sell it off. I decided to go out and fly again before I made my decision.
With that said, I want to take a step back in time for a minute.
When I started in this hobby as a young child with my dad, it was a community hobby. Sure, you will always have some personality conflicts, but in the local club, at events etc, people all enjoyed the hobby together and everyone took an interest in what everyone else did. We were just thankful to have options in models. We built our own airplanes, ARF's didn't exist. Some airplanes were still built poorly, some of the kits sucked, radio's were less reliable, airplanes crashed, people cut fingers, things happened, and we had a great time.
Fast forward to the ARF years, many people were drawn to ARF's as they were shiny, and prettier than what many people could build. They were also nearly impossible to repair with their foam skins (remember the EZ line of arf's?) and they didn't fly all that well, but a brand new one out of the box sure looked pretty. In the beginning, people took nearly as much pride in their ARF's as airplanes they'd built, because ARF's at the time by comparison were expensive.
As time went by, and China became more involved, ARF's dropped in price, as did most hobby items. People began to flock to the hobby because it was easier to get started, more easily afforded by anyone, and simply less work. Unfortunatley, what I've seen, is along with that, the community grew more clique's. This began to divide the community. You still had your focus groups, the heli guys, the pattern guys, the pylon guys etc, but the average sport flyer became more solitary.
Fast forward a few more years to turbines. I bought my first turbine in 1999. At that point and time, part of what I loved in turbine, well, jet modeling overall was that it felt like the "good old days" of modeling where the community was tight knit. We had to build our jets, there were no ARF's to speak of, they were kits. The onus of a properly built model fell on us, the modeler. There were great options out there, and everything cost a fortune. My first turbine jet was an original Kangaroo with a RAM750 and cost me $9000!!!!!! Look at what you can get today for 9K!!!! However, the jets that were out then, they worked. We put the time into building them.
As we continue on, I've seen the jet community turn into the average sport flyer community. The community has turned into cliques, the people involved for a large part, want those shiny affordable airplanes regardless of what they are.
I can accept all of that, but what is absolutely killing me these days, is the way people are expecting something for nothing, or, something great, for very little.
I'm not going to list any people or manufactures at all, because I've seen problems with virtually all of them in the 14 years I've now been involved in turbines. I don't post as often as many do, and I certainly don't fly as much as many of you do, but I read, I watch, and I listen and learn.
Here's what I've seen happen multiple times.
1. Airplane crashes due to structural failure and owner expects the manufacture to replace it. Where did this come from? Years ago, I had a great planes fun one that I built from a kit. (different scale I'm very aware) that when flown with the recommended 40 size engine, experienced massive flutter that tore the stabilizer off. I later learned that it had been an issue with the design and the fix had been to add a spruce spar along the trailing edge of the stab during construction. I loved that airplane, and was bummed when it crashed, but did I expect a new airplane from Great Planes? Not at all, and while one can argue that it was a $400 total loss as opposed to a $10,000 loss, at the end of the day, I was a 16 year old kid at the time that had saved for months and months in order to pay for that airplane and that loss to me, was just as important as a 10K loss would be to anyone here. I had crashed airplanes before, but they had been my fault. That airplane then taught me to never put anymore money into an airplane than I am prepared to lose. Just because I'm prepared to lose it doesn't mean I want to, but sh*t happens. I also lost a $2500 Meridian pattern ship that same year, wrecked all the coreless servo's, wrecked the receiver, wrecked a brand new YS91AC etc. Why? Radio failure. I sent the radio back to Futaba and they confirmed the transmitter had failed. Now, Futaba, they stepped up and replaced that (at the time) brand new Conquest 7, with the then BRAND new 8UAP. However, that brand new 8UAP failed later that year, fortunately, on the bench. I sent it in to Futaba for repair and they confirmed it was a component failure. I didn't make it my goal to run them through the mud, I switched ALL of my radio gear to JR, and moved on. I never once asked, or expected anything more from Futaba than to fix my radio.
I don't understand how we as modelers can expect a manufacture to replace an entire airframe, much less all lost components when something happens. Yes, I admit fully there have been absoluely OBVIOUS structural failures of certain models, I won't argue that at all. And in many cases, nothing is being done to fix the problem. While I said I wouldn't name any specific manufactures, I do want to note that BVM had a run of Kingcat boom failures. They didn't replace airplanes for people, however, they did make a fix that worked, and sent it out free of charge to those who had kingcats. And it was a fix that worked, even when we got stupid and largley overpowered the airplanes. They did it right. I don't remember seeing posts from people saying they felt BVM owed them free airplanes and engines and if those posts did exist, they certainly didn't end up with multiple posts on the front page in a matter of days. If a manufacture begins replacing people's losses, they set a precident that will only bankrupt any manufacture that follows suit. What is to then stop a modeler from saying "I'm bored with this jet but can't afford a new one, so I'm going to sabotage it so that it comes apart in the air and I can say it was a structural failure"? And after how many flights would it apply? In the first 10? Before the first 2 crashes and repairs? After the 3rd owner? How do you regulate? You can't. Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to refuse to replace somebodies loss due to structural failure? Probably not, Is it irresponsible for a manufacture to NOT issue a warning, ask people to stop flying that particular model until a CORRECT fix has been come up with? Absolutely!
2. The writing is on the wall with certain manufactures, there is thread after thread after thread about these airplanes, and yet there are still many people who continue to buy these things with the "it won't happen to me" attitude or "I can fix it" attitude and then they crash and expect the same things I mentioned above. I'm sorry, but at this point and time, anyone who buys a certain product when there is a KNOWN defect is an idiot. It's kind of like saying "I can do cocaine because I'm smart about how much I'm doing" but when you become addicted, or OD, you blame the drug. I'm sorry, you're an idiot for doing it in the first place!
....Yawn....
10-14-2013, 07:41 PM
#24
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3. Lets ban XXXXX from whatever. If you are an event CD, or even a club, you can establish a rule to allow or disallow anything you want I suppose. And when it comes to a known unsafe product, you are very much in your rights to ban it. However, people have very much adopted this "the sky is falling" attitude, especially in jets. The perception that these models are dangerous in recent years has been highly magnified not by people without knowledge, but by people within our own community. I see this as happening in 2 methods. First, multiple posts about the SAME TOPIC essentially in the forum that get jumped on over and over by everyone. These then post to the front page of RCU as a hot topic, and now we have RC car guys, we have foamy guys, we have heli guys, we have everyone under the sun coming in, reading THOSE threads and gaining the knowledge that these things are dangerous, they come apart and explode! The second issue lies within these threads with the "what happens when one of these things kills somebody??????" Well, to be blunt, the same thing that happens when ANY other model kills somebody! Why are we getting so dramatic when it comes to Jets? Do we somehow WANT to believe that we're flying something deadly? Do we want to revel in drama? It's total crap. Yes, sure, a 200mph jet hitting somebody is going to kill them. And it's going to do it whether it comes apart in the air, or is guided into somebody by a pilot that's totally f'd up in flight. Guess what, a 200mph 40 size pylon plane is going to kill somebody if it hits them too, an 80mph 40% Edge is going to kill somebody if it hits them. A large Heli swinging a 6' rotor is going to kill somebody if it hits them.
My question is, those of you who feel that an airplane is going to kill somebody, how are your clubs set up? Every place I've flown there are very clear no fly zones, such as over the pits, low passes are to be done on the far side of the runway, there is an established flight line etc. An airplane coming apart has no directional control anymore, agreed, neither does an airplane with a servo failure, or a radio lockout, or being flown by somebody who shouldn't be flying it. To start advertising that a Jet specifically could kill somebody is idiotic, particularly when you start to attempt to show that at a level where gov't intervention becomes possible. At the end of the day, if you're concerned about a jet killing somebody but feel that all other aspects of RC are safer, this probably isn't the hobby for you, but then, neither should driving, or walking, or pretty much doing anything be something you should be involved in. Yes, we want to protect our hobby, but there are many area's that have cropped up in this hobby that will be the death of RC long before turbine modeling will be. My guess is that FPV is what will eventually get this hobby heavily regulated. The fact of the matter is, Jet modeling is still IMO one of the safest sides of this hobby. For the most part, safety is on people's minds with proper start up area's, fire extinguishers present, spotters being used etc. Sadly, the biggest piece of Safety equipment that should be present with every form of RC modeling is what is lacking, that is common sense.
In the past couple of months, I have witnessed more personal attacks, more drama, and more "the sky is falling" attitudes in RC modeling than ever before. What is the answer, hell if I know, but what I do know, is the way many of the "victims" (and I use the term extremely loosely) come online and vent, complain, and threaten, is not the answer. We as jet modelers should be doing things far more proactively than we are. Trying to focus on things that will bring bad publicity and attention to us is not the answer. Posting on RCU isn't even the answer. The answer lies at the very basic level, through education, common sense and enforcement of our safety. At the end of the day, I know there is one manufacture (that unless you're living under a rock you'll know who I'm talking about) everyone is pissed off at and I get it, I've been screwed by them personally in a big way as well, but there is an old saying that "there is no such thing as bad publicity" rings very true here. There are many that want this manufacture shut down, and I get that, but what is happening way to much on here is fear mongering, there are many false accusations being thrown around, and in general, just a whole lot of BS that makes this side of the RC hobby look bad. In the meantime, these threads are letting EVERYONE know that they exist, and when people just skim through, chances are they'll catch the pretty pictures posted by the people who've had great success and THAT is what will draw them to the product. You've just advertised for that manufacture.
The truth is, there is no easy answer, and nothing will happen overnight. EVEN IF we could create a big enough list of people that wanted to ban any particular manufacture, or aspect of the hobby, that will take a huge amount of time and the results at the end would likely be remarkably detrimental to our hobby. These are things that need to be dealt with at a local level. There will be people buying these products who never come on RCU, will never see the warnings, but still fly at local sanctioned fields. Use diplomacy and be proactive in sorting out the problems. Express concern for a product at a club level, or at an event, require an airframe inspection prior to flying and if it is a known product with issues, ask what has been done to correct those issues, if nothing, as a CD, it is your right to allow somebody to fly or not. Yes, you might upset somebody, but look at what this entire forum has turned into recently.
Myself personally, why I keep getting drawn into this crap on the forums I don't know, I know I'm a stubborn personality, and I know I've made mistakes myself in the past. But the fact is, this hobby is supposed to be fun, and no matter what you are involved in, when there is a community of people involved, and it grows, problems will arise. But creating a sense of urgency, creating drama, all of that, it takes the fun out of it for everyone. Before one makes posts with suggestions, makes posts with demands, makes posts with negative connotation, take a minute to think about how that post might be perceived. Think about the bigger picture. Be realistic in your expectations in this hobby in regards to others.
I know that I'll get comments here like "yeah, great post, thanks for telling us what we already know but what is the answer......." There will be multiple people who make the "good job captain obvious" and yet, those will be the same people in the other threads making the same statements, making the same accusations, over and over and over.
Take this post however you want, frankly after 30 years in the hobby, I still enjoy the flying part, but I miss the social aspect how it used to be, and it's getting to the point where if I really have to start worrying about the crap being thrown around in forums and the "predictions by the so called experts", maybe it really is time to move on to something different, but, for the immediate future, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself, I sincerely hope that you all can do the same.
Jeremy
My question is, those of you who feel that an airplane is going to kill somebody, how are your clubs set up? Every place I've flown there are very clear no fly zones, such as over the pits, low passes are to be done on the far side of the runway, there is an established flight line etc. An airplane coming apart has no directional control anymore, agreed, neither does an airplane with a servo failure, or a radio lockout, or being flown by somebody who shouldn't be flying it. To start advertising that a Jet specifically could kill somebody is idiotic, particularly when you start to attempt to show that at a level where gov't intervention becomes possible. At the end of the day, if you're concerned about a jet killing somebody but feel that all other aspects of RC are safer, this probably isn't the hobby for you, but then, neither should driving, or walking, or pretty much doing anything be something you should be involved in. Yes, we want to protect our hobby, but there are many area's that have cropped up in this hobby that will be the death of RC long before turbine modeling will be. My guess is that FPV is what will eventually get this hobby heavily regulated. The fact of the matter is, Jet modeling is still IMO one of the safest sides of this hobby. For the most part, safety is on people's minds with proper start up area's, fire extinguishers present, spotters being used etc. Sadly, the biggest piece of Safety equipment that should be present with every form of RC modeling is what is lacking, that is common sense.
In the past couple of months, I have witnessed more personal attacks, more drama, and more "the sky is falling" attitudes in RC modeling than ever before. What is the answer, hell if I know, but what I do know, is the way many of the "victims" (and I use the term extremely loosely) come online and vent, complain, and threaten, is not the answer. We as jet modelers should be doing things far more proactively than we are. Trying to focus on things that will bring bad publicity and attention to us is not the answer. Posting on RCU isn't even the answer. The answer lies at the very basic level, through education, common sense and enforcement of our safety. At the end of the day, I know there is one manufacture (that unless you're living under a rock you'll know who I'm talking about) everyone is pissed off at and I get it, I've been screwed by them personally in a big way as well, but there is an old saying that "there is no such thing as bad publicity" rings very true here. There are many that want this manufacture shut down, and I get that, but what is happening way to much on here is fear mongering, there are many false accusations being thrown around, and in general, just a whole lot of BS that makes this side of the RC hobby look bad. In the meantime, these threads are letting EVERYONE know that they exist, and when people just skim through, chances are they'll catch the pretty pictures posted by the people who've had great success and THAT is what will draw them to the product. You've just advertised for that manufacture.
The truth is, there is no easy answer, and nothing will happen overnight. EVEN IF we could create a big enough list of people that wanted to ban any particular manufacture, or aspect of the hobby, that will take a huge amount of time and the results at the end would likely be remarkably detrimental to our hobby. These are things that need to be dealt with at a local level. There will be people buying these products who never come on RCU, will never see the warnings, but still fly at local sanctioned fields. Use diplomacy and be proactive in sorting out the problems. Express concern for a product at a club level, or at an event, require an airframe inspection prior to flying and if it is a known product with issues, ask what has been done to correct those issues, if nothing, as a CD, it is your right to allow somebody to fly or not. Yes, you might upset somebody, but look at what this entire forum has turned into recently.
Myself personally, why I keep getting drawn into this crap on the forums I don't know, I know I'm a stubborn personality, and I know I've made mistakes myself in the past. But the fact is, this hobby is supposed to be fun, and no matter what you are involved in, when there is a community of people involved, and it grows, problems will arise. But creating a sense of urgency, creating drama, all of that, it takes the fun out of it for everyone. Before one makes posts with suggestions, makes posts with demands, makes posts with negative connotation, take a minute to think about how that post might be perceived. Think about the bigger picture. Be realistic in your expectations in this hobby in regards to others.
I know that I'll get comments here like "yeah, great post, thanks for telling us what we already know but what is the answer......." There will be multiple people who make the "good job captain obvious" and yet, those will be the same people in the other threads making the same statements, making the same accusations, over and over and over.
Take this post however you want, frankly after 30 years in the hobby, I still enjoy the flying part, but I miss the social aspect how it used to be, and it's getting to the point where if I really have to start worrying about the crap being thrown around in forums and the "predictions by the so called experts", maybe it really is time to move on to something different, but, for the immediate future, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself, I sincerely hope that you all can do the same.
Jeremy
.... more.... Yaawwwwnnn.....
10-14-2013, 07:46 PM
#25
My Feedback: (86)
I agree with what Rex said 100% !
Events and flying are still great - and the forum is entertaining reading at lunch! Heck Rex and I have had differing opinions on FEJ for quite some time and I consider him a good flying buddy.
I've recently gotten back to building again too. I finally finished my scratch-built Panther (99% anyway - a scale model is never finished...) and I'm about to start on a Mick Reeves Hawker Hunter KIT, not the ARF! Actually, I'm like the 4th owner of that kit, but this owner is going to *build* it. I'm psyched - even if it will take 18 months (or more) to finish!
Bob
Events and flying are still great - and the forum is entertaining reading at lunch!
Heck Rex and I have had differing opinions on FEJ for quite some time and I consider him a good flying buddy. I've recently gotten back to building again too. I finally finished my scratch-built Panther (99% anyway - a scale model is never finished...) and I'm about to start on a Mick Reeves Hawker Hunter KIT, not the ARF! Actually, I'm like the 4th owner of that kit, but this owner is going to *build* it. I'm psyched - even if it will take 18 months (or more) to finish!
Bob