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Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz

Old 03-22-2014, 09:41 AM
  #551  
Jeti USA
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That's up to your Voltage Regulator or Battery pack. Receiver is high voltage it will accept anything up to 8.4V
It's Receiver, it has NO built in voltage regulator.

Zb/Jeti USA
Old 03-22-2014, 09:43 AM
  #552  
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Originally Posted by bluelevel
When is the 3.2 update finally going to be alailable? The release has been announced several times already but the software was never available for download. What's the hiccup?

Thomas
Keep your fingers cross, it might happen very soon. Jeti will not release anything that is not 100% tested by software engineers and approved by Team Pilots.

Zb/Jeti USA
Old 03-22-2014, 05:42 PM
  #553  
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Where the heck is the fuel flow sensor?? It's the entire reason I bought this radio in the first place. February is long gone but no word on a release date yet.
Old 03-22-2014, 07:22 PM
  #554  
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Pete, get yourself an MUI-30 Amp/volt sensor. You get flameout warning, ECU voltage, and fuel level all for about $36. Quite the bargin and available now. I've got one in all my jets.

Jim
Old 03-23-2014, 03:25 AM
  #555  
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63
Pete, get yourself an MUI-30 Amp/volt sensor. You get flameout warning, ECU voltage, and fuel level all for about $36. Quite the bargin and available now. I've got one in all my jets.

Jim

And it works very well, the only down side is that you have to reset the capacity after filling up the tank because you get an mAh consumed reading, on the up side it is very inexpensive. I am waiting too because I would like to put some on my gasser but this could be a bit further off in time.

This is the article, I saved it in case Jeti does not post it anymore on their web site once the fuel flow meter is out

The article describes what to do to replace the fuel gauge by means of current and voltage sensors. Useful for pilots of jet models.During recent time period JETI has extended transmission system Duplex 2.4GHz offer by two new types of exchangeable transmitter modules, two types of interesting 5-channels receivers, expanders (allowing connecting through more telemetric sensors to one receiver) and MUI sensors (voltage & current telemetric sensors) for telemetrying, processing and calculating electric quantity. MUI sensors and its options made me write this article.
As you can see from the name, sensors are intended to measure voltage and current. They can be connected directly to Jetibox to create simple measuring equipment or they can be connected to every JETI Duplex receiver. Duplex then sends measured and processed data to the transmission module that generates acoustic notification and it also sends data to Jetibox where they are displayed and it also works as a programmer. A pleasant fact is that after the connection you needn’t adjust or activate anything. Functions and extended options of programming switch on automatically after connecting a sensor. If you disconnect the sensor, functions are not displayed in order not to complicate the programming. Term, known from the PC world, „plug and play“, could be paraphrased as „plug and fly“.
Nowadays you can buy 3 kinds of MUI sensors: MUI 30, 75, 150. Their functions are the same, they only differ in maximum current loading. Every sensor has two separated and detached inputs for measuring voltage and current. Thus you can measure voltage and current of one accumulator with just one sensor.

MUI sensors measure and compute these parameters:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Functions[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Values[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Notification and other options[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Voltage[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]- Minimal voltage- Maximal voltage- Actual data[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]0-60 V[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]alarm U – acoustic notification if the voltage is under the set value[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Current[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]- Minimal current- Maximal current- Average current- Actual value[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]up to 30, 75 , 150 A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]alarm I – acoustic notification if current is over set value[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Time[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]- measuring engine flight time[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]min:sec[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]adjustable value of activating current[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]Capacity[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]- monitoring the amount of energy taken from the accumulator[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]mAh[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]alarm C – acoustic notification if accumulator is depleted over the set value[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa, colspan: 2"]Voltage measurement accuracy[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]0,1 %[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa, colspan: 2"]Current measurement accuracy[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"]1%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #fafafa"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It is worthless to go into details, you can download them easily from jetimodel.com. Once my friend’s MUI 75 was on my table to be assembled. I was thinking how it could be benefit for me. I prefer jet models to electric models. I got an idea to use it alternatively than it was produced for. I own turbine-engines models and their engines have got really high consumption - 1kg of kerosine is enough apx. for 3 minutes of flying thus you often fly till the last drop is in the tank. Jets often glide very badly during flying with engine switched-off. I got an idea to connect the sensor not as recommended (behind accumulator) but ahead of the appliance (in my case fuel pump) and use it as a fuel consumption gauge with acoustic warning when reached the minimum volume of fuel.

MUI sensor recommended connection




MUI sensor modified connection



If the dependance between the amount of energy consumed by pump and the amount of pumped fuel was linear, the MUI sensor would become elegant, small, and light fuel gauge that is able to process measured data, transfer them real-time to the transmitter but mainly give sound notification if the amount of fuel in tank is critical. Seems great theoretically but will it work?

I have made a simple testing facility. I have adjusted DC regulator the range between 0,8 – 4,7V, this is apx. the range of controlling electronic of turbine. I have also choked outgoing tube in order its flow volume is the same as injection jets of turbine. I have used MUI 30 because maximal current taken by pump doesn’t reach 3A even during flying at full throttle. I have used fuel pumps for Frank, Graupner, Top Jet and two other manufacturers turbines. Fuel pumps for modeller turbines are simple gear-pumps powered by DC engines often of 300 or 400 series.
Then I started to pump, measure, write records….pump, measure…..
If my premise was right, the energy needed to pump equal amount of fuel should be the same for all kinds of fuel pumps. The fuel pump takes higher current during higher output, but it needs shorter time to pump equal amount of fuel. One of the fuel pumps increased its performance after every use. This fuel pump was absolutely new and hasn’t been used before. Measured values were senseless because of running-in, thus this fuel pump was taken out from the test. Other fuel pumps were used at least a part of season.
It is useless to put here a table with values, we can summarise the result into a few sentences:
  • The dependence between between the amount of energy consumed by the pump and the amount of pumped fuel is linear.
  • Rate of pumping has no influence on the result.
  • The whole facility (control unit - current sensor - fuel pump) worked with maximal deviation of 4%.
  • Conclusion – It works!
Maximal deviation might seem insignificant but if we have 3 litres of fuel in the plane, than 4% deviation stands for indispensable 120ml. This is not little, but I think this accuracy is enough for us. The difference was caused by fuel pumps. Deviation was almost non-measurable during running at half or full throttle. Highest deviations have appeared during free-running that is with voltage of 0,8 – 1,5V.
Practical use as well as the installation is very easy. We interrupt (cut) one line-wire (electric conductor) between the control unit and the fuel pump, and we put MUI sensor into the interruption. Mind the polarity! If you switch polarity, nothing will short out but the sensor won’t measure a current. We can use voltage measuring input to monitor turbine’s accumulator. This is how we can have monitored accumulator for receiver and servos (checked by sensor in receiver) and also accumulator necessary for running the turbine. Now it is necessary to find out how much energy is required for particular engine and model. We can let the turbine run out of fuel after landing and then take value „capacity“ from the memory of the sensor. Then we decrease this value by required fuel reserve and then we write this value to the memory of a sensor as „capacity alarm“ via Jetibox.

For example:
  • Sensor has shown 200mAh as energy taken for depleting the fuel tank
  • Required reserve is 20% of fuel in tank (=200 -20% = 160 mAh)
  • We set „capacity alarm“ to 160

The result is that when the fuel pump after start up of the turbine consumes 160 mAh (takes 80% of fuel from tanks) , acoustic alarm gives me the notification. This works only when you start with full tank.
M. Pastyřík


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Old 03-23-2014, 05:17 AM
  #556  
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Originally Posted by Puttputt maru
And it works very well, the only down side is that you have to reset the capacity after filling up the tank because you get an mAh consumed reading, on the up side it is very inexpensive. I am waiting too because I would like to put some on my gasser but this could be a bit further off in time.

This is the article, I saved it in case Jeti does not post it anymore on their web site once the fuel flow meter is out


Wow looks like Ive got some reading I will have to do. I am trying to keep this simple. Is there a way I can get how much MAH my pump will use without having to run the turbine? Ill have a better read of that article when Im not on my Iphone lol.
Old 03-23-2014, 06:52 AM
  #557  
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PuttPutt,
Thank you for posting that article. Did I read the first part of it correctly when it said

"During recent time period JETI has extended transmission system Duplex 2.4GHz offer by two new types of exchangeable transmitter modules"

What do they mean by that statement? Are they planning to offer a TX module based system that can used with other manufacturer's radios? If so, does anyone have any more details on this?
thanks.
Old 03-23-2014, 07:45 AM
  #558  
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Yes, the downside is that you have to reset the capacity after filling the tank, but I suspect that the fuel flow gauge will have to be reset too. As far as resetting goes, it only takes a few presses of buttons in the Jetibox application on the transmitter. Alternatively, it can also be reset by removing the voltage from the sensor. In my Rafale, the ECU battery is a LiPo which is very accessible (for easy removal for charging) and plugs into an cable extension to the ECU. I simply unplug/replug the connector and this resets the MUI-30.

Goose_F22 and I are looking for a small normally closed pushbutton to mount in our jets in such a way that it can be pressed when the jet is all buttoned up and ready to fly. The idea is that, if we are at a major meet and waiting in line to takeoff with the jet connected to a taxi tank, once getting clearance to takeoff, the spotter disconnects the taxi tank and pushes the button to reset the capacity counter.

As far as determining the number of MAH to set your alarm (my alarm says "Bingo Fuel") you will likely require a few flights to dial it in. However, as a quick first guess, I simply multiply my fuel tank capacity in Liters (33.8 oz/liter) times 100. My Reaction has a 3.8 liter tank and the alarm is set at 380 MAH.

Martinan, I believe the article is a few years old and pre-dates the DC/DS-16. Several years ago, Jeti made transmitter modules for the European market. Now that they are making transmitters, I'm not sure if they are still making modules, and what are the capabilities of those modules with the new Duplex product line.

Jim
Old 03-23-2014, 08:07 AM
  #559  
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63
Yes, the downside is that you have to reset the capacity after filling the tank, but I suspect that the fuel flow gauge will have to be reset too. As far as resetting goes, it only takes a few presses of buttons in the Jetibox application on the transmitter.

Jim
You will be able to use one of the Remote commands from Device Explorer, same as we reset batteries in Central Box 200.

Zb/Jeti USA
Old 03-23-2014, 09:32 AM
  #560  
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I am using the flight mode switch on my flap switch for separate trims on Elevator and ailerons. The flap switch works fine for the trim setting in all three positions.

The problem I am seeing is that somehow if I put in say elevator trim with the gear switch in the down position and move the gear switch to the up position the elevator goes back to neutral. If I put elevator trim in with the gear switch in the up position and move the gear switch down the trim goes back to neutral.I cannot make the gear switch inactive in relation to aileron and elevator trim.

I know it must be a simple answer but I have tried just about everything and cannot stop this from happening.I have played with the global setting and it doesn't make any difference.

Has anyone seen a similar problem?

Thanks,

Stan
Old 03-23-2014, 09:49 AM
  #561  
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63
Yes, the downside is that you have to reset the capacity after filling the tank, but I suspect that the fuel flow gauge will have to be reset too. As far as resetting goes, it only takes a few presses of buttons in the Jetibox application on the transmitter. Alternatively, it can also be reset by removing the voltage from the sensor. In my Rafale, the ECU battery is a LiPo which is very accessible (for easy removal for charging) and plugs into an cable extension to the ECU. I simply unplug/replug the connector and this resets the MUI-30.

Goose_F22 and I are looking for a small normally closed pushbutton to mount in our jets in such a way that it can be pressed when the jet is all buttoned up and ready to fly. The idea is that, if we are at a major meet and waiting in line to takeoff with the jet connected to a taxi tank, once getting clearance to takeoff, the spotter disconnects the taxi tank and pushes the button to reset the capacity counter.

As far as determining the number of MAH to set your alarm (my alarm says "Bingo Fuel") you will likely require a few flights to dial it in. However, as a quick first guess, I simply multiply my fuel tank capacity in Liters (33.8 oz/liter) times 100. My Reaction has a 3.8 liter tank and the alarm is set at 380 MAH.

Martinan, I believe the article is a few years old and pre-dates the DC/DS-16. Several years ago, Jeti made transmitter modules for the European market. Now that they are making transmitters, I'm not sure if they are still making modules, and what are the capabilities of those modules with the new Duplex product line.

Jim
A quick question.. It seems that simply power cycling the MUI-30 will reset the capacity counter? If that is correct, won't simply power cycling the aircraft accomplish that? Killing power to the receiver should kill power to the EX Bus and since the receiver isn't sending a signal to the ECU, it should turn it self off and kill any power to the fuel pump as well, shouldn't it? I assume I'm probably missing something but I would like to understand what else would be preventing the capacity alarm from being reset???
Old 03-23-2014, 10:22 AM
  #562  
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Originally Posted by martinan
PuttPutt,
Thank you for posting that article. Did I read the first part of it correctly when it said

"During recent time period JETI has extended transmission system Duplex 2.4GHz offer by two new types of exchangeable transmitter modules"

What do they mean by that statement? Are they planning to offer a TX module based system that can used with other manufacturer's radios? If so, does anyone have any more details on this?
thanks.
Originally Posted by rcjets_63
Martinan, I believe the article is a few years old and pre-dates the DC/DS-16. Several years ago, Jeti made transmitter modules for the European market. Now that they are making transmitters, I'm not sure if they are still making modules, and what are the capabilities of those modules with the new Duplex product line.

Jim
You got the answer from rcjets_63 Martinan. Sorry I just pasted it from my old saved file.
Old 03-23-2014, 12:34 PM
  #563  
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Thanks Jim. I didn't realize that is an old article.

Puttputt,
No worries. Thanks.

Regards,
Old 03-23-2014, 02:58 PM
  #564  
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wfield,

Cycling the power by turning the receiver off/on does not reset the counter. The MUI-30 is an in-line amp meter but is also a volt meter and is connected to the + and - side of a battery (in my case the ECU battery). I believe that it was primarily intended for electric flight operation where batteries are removed from the aircraft for charging. The capacity counter part of the circuit is still powered by the connected battery not from the receiver/exbus, and that makes sense for electrics.

Using this sensor installed in the fuel pump circuit of a jet and connected to the ECU battery is likely not an application that was foreseen by the designer (though it accomplishes this task very well - the accuracy as a fuel gauge is about +/- 4% which is about 5 oz of fuel for most jets) and thus we don't (yet) get the automatic reset unless we disconnect the ECU battery. However, as ZB said, there will soon be a remote reset command (like in the CB 200 for receiver battery capacity). Alternately, you could power the MUI-30 with an unused servo port in the receiver (which would give you a capacity reset by turning off the receiver, but that is a bit of a waste of the MUI-30 volt sensor as the receiver already has a built in voltage sensor.

Regards,

Jim
Old 03-23-2014, 04:36 PM
  #565  
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Originally Posted by tucson
I am using the flight mode switch on my flap switch for separate trims on Elevator and ailerons. The flap switch works fine for the trim setting in all three positions.

The problem I am seeing is that somehow if I put in say elevator trim with the gear switch in the down position and move the gear switch to the up position the elevator goes back to neutral. If I put elevator trim in with the gear switch in the up position and move the gear switch down the trim goes back to neutral.I cannot make the gear switch inactive in relation to aileron and elevator trim.

I know it must be a simple answer but I have tried just about everything and cannot stop this from happening.I have played with the global setting and it doesn't make any difference.

Has anyone seen a similar problem?

Thanks,

Stan
No Need to reply Guys,

I finally figured out the problem and got it fixed

Stan
Old 03-23-2014, 11:58 PM
  #566  
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EDF do 3 min flights on a 6S setup, I do 8.5min flights with power of a 12S setup MUI30 to tell when to land, alarm set at 70mAh and when taxied back it reads 85mAh or so. 690cc/23oz used

Accelerometer used for reading flight data and for wheelbreaks. Tilt right for voice and tilt towards you for breaks







Last edited by Henke Torphammar; 03-24-2014 at 12:56 AM.
Old 03-24-2014, 08:57 PM
  #567  
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Great questions and comments.. Keep em coming.

We got some great flying in Phoenix today on the Jeti system with Jims Rafale, and some pass the foamie flying..
Old 03-24-2014, 10:08 PM
  #568  
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Originally Posted by ddennison
Great. So I can select the output voltage? What are the options ? ^, 7.4, 8.?
Dave,

Jeti receivers are rated for a max 8.4V (2S Lipo)... The output voltage to the servos is the same as the input voltage... Both HV and WV servos are rated at max 7.4V. The Central Box 200 is rated at max 15V and that does not have a regulator so I would assume the output voltage at each pin is equal to input voltage...

The upcoming Central Box 400 is supposed to come with a built in regulator.... But my understanding is that you can not selected different output voltage at each pin...

If you like to mix HV servos with regular servos an inline regulator works well.... Esprit model sells two different version of the inline regulators...

David
Old 03-24-2014, 11:07 PM
  #569  
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Can we get the MUI to report percentage instead of the exact capacity?
Old 03-25-2014, 07:02 AM
  #570  
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63
wfield,

Cycling the power by turning the receiver off/on does not reset the counter. The MUI-30 is an in-line amp meter but is also a volt meter and is connected to the + and - side of a battery (in my case the ECU battery). I believe that it was primarily intended for electric flight operation where batteries are removed from the aircraft for charging. The capacity counter part of the circuit is still powered by the connected battery not from the receiver/exbus, and that makes sense for electrics.

Using this sensor installed in the fuel pump circuit of a jet and connected to the ECU battery is likely not an application that was foreseen by the designer (though it accomplishes this task very well - the accuracy as a fuel gauge is about +/- 4% which is about 5 oz of fuel for most jets) and thus we don't (yet) get the automatic reset unless we disconnect the ECU battery. However, as ZB said, there will soon be a remote reset command (like in the CB 200 for receiver battery capacity). Alternately, you could power the MUI-30 with an unused servo port in the receiver (which would give you a capacity reset by turning off the receiver, but that is a bit of a waste of the MUI-30 volt sensor as the receiver already has a built in voltage sensor.

Regards,

Jim
Guys,

if you didn't know, there is an easy way to have the MUI reset the capacity counter each time you turn on your radio. Just go to the "settings" menu (either with a Jeti Box or the emulation available on the TX) and set the "Start trigger" value to 0 Amps.That's it!

Thomas
Old 03-25-2014, 08:40 AM
  #571  
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Originally Posted by bluelevel
Guys,

if you didn't know, there is an easy way to have the MUI reset the capacity counter each time you turn on your radio. Just go to the "settings" menu (either with a Jeti Box or the emulation available on the TX) and set the "Start trigger" value to 0 Amps.That's it!

Thomas
I was just typeing that the other day as that's what I do. I however deleted it as I thought it would be too easy and there must be a catch when useing MUI to detect flameout too?!
Old 03-25-2014, 09:21 AM
  #572  
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Originally Posted by Henke Torphammar
I was just typeing that the other day as that's what I do. I however deleted it as I thought it would be too easy and there must be a catch when useing MUI to detect flameout too?!
henke,

it is actually that easy. The flameout warning has nothing to do with that. The "Start trigger" value only defines the logging behavior, the alarm value is a different setting.

Thomas
Old 03-25-2014, 11:15 AM
  #573  
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Originally Posted by bluelevel
henke,

it is actually that easy. The flameout warning has nothing to do with that. The "Start trigger" value only defines the logging behavior, the alarm value is a different setting.

Thomas
Cool, we were more clever even then Jim
Old 03-25-2014, 12:14 PM
  #574  
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Well I am officially IN, DS16 and central box 200/r3x2.
Dave
Old 03-25-2014, 03:31 PM
  #575  
ddennison
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Do I need start by checking versions for tx, central box and r3?
what should they be for each piece?
thanks for any help
Dave

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