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Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz

Old 12-06-2013, 08:36 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
So if I understand this. We have 2 tx modules. So you can bind one to the #1 tx module in normal mode and the other to #2 tx module in normal mode and link sat receiver to the main by plugging from the sat rx ppm designated servo port into the Sat input on main rx.

In this scenario, what does it take for the sat rx to take over? Complete loss of main sig? Or is it an algorithm based on sig dBM or?

Ie how does degradation work?
No, it works different. In Normal Tx mode both RF modules are switching between each other, and they talk to receiver. Protocol in the receiver "listens" to the transmitter and uses Rx antenna with better reception for bi-directional communication.

If you use Main + Satellite (Clone) receivers, both Rxs are communicating with both RF modules at the same time. If RF portion of the #1/Main receiver detect degraded signal it switches to the satellite communication link. You have Antenna Diversity, no Dual Path Receiver Diversity.

I hope it helps.
Zb/Jeti USA
Old 12-08-2013, 08:24 PM
  #177  
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So with two receivers which way is better for reliability? Dual path or dual diversity..why?
Old 12-08-2013, 08:54 PM
  #178  
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Well now; FedEx delivered my new DS-16 Christmas present from Esprit yesterday. Been playing with it and getting familiar with the programming,
Though there are some differences, the programming is definitely "Euro" inspired and not too much of a leap from my former Multiplex Royal Evo/Weatronics radio.
This set is an interesting blend of "Multiplex and Weatronics type" functionality with no need to resort to a PC (Weatronics Gigacontrol) in order to achieve expanded set up options.
Hard to describe how nice it feels unless you have your hands on one.
-Mike
Old 12-09-2013, 05:53 PM
  #179  
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Well Looky here.. Merry Christmas to me.. Merry christmas to me..and a happy new Year/flying season
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:52 PM
  #180  
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Go you, congratulation on the Jeti and accessories, I'm loving mine and now there are 3guys in our flying club that have Jetis. Merry Christmas.
Old 12-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #181  
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Well, we have been experimenting today..

Trying to understand redundancy and how/what to do.. the manual isn't that helpful, however RcJets63 and I were conferencing today.. His previous post describes how to set up Redundant receivers..

for sake of argument, lets call that Parallel mode.. I went after the Sat(clone) mode today.. its not as easy as its made out to be to understand it.. Lets call that Serial mode..

The main receiver does EVERYTHING.. the Sat receiver is made to be dumb and simply passes PPM coding directly to the sat port, but theyBOTH have to be configured..

Short version:
Clone.. With 3.11 Software in rx, its actually easier to program rx.. Put the bind plug in Telem port and power it.. Turn on transmitter.. It will ask you if you want to bind.. do it.. LEAVE the Bind plug in for the setup of the Clone.. turn the volume down because it will continue to beep. Then go into the device explorer and set it up to output PPM Pos and set frame rate to same as your primary receiver.. I used .17sec then disable Failsafe in the Sat. Then go into the Jeti emulator and put it into clone mode.. It will stay in normal mode until you pull the bind plug.. pull the bind plug and it will start beeping signal loss.. done..

Look in the receiver chart to find out what ppm output port to use for the sat.. for instance on the R5L its port 5..

Bind your main receiver normally, get it working all your servos and such.. then go into device explorer and go to the SAT 1 or Sat2 menu.. pick a port and set it for PPM input if its not already set up.. Then go into Jeti Emulator and find the PinOutput menu and go down then over to find the Sat Port and make sure its enabled to PPM input, and that it is set to Alarm "S" (weak signal).. The manual says use A.. that is not correct.. thats the altitude warning..

power everything down.. Plug in the Sat PpM output into the SAT port on main rx.. Power Transmitter, then Rx. You will only see Receiver antenna strength for main rx.. the Sat is in the background just providing PPM input... to test if the Main receiver is checking for it, unplug the sat.. It will say weak signal, or morse code it.. plug it back in and it stops..

Thats the "serial" mode or Main/CLone mode.. It takes some playing around to get it.. but with this mode BOTH transmitter modules are talking to BOTH receivers.. But remember you an only receive telemetry from one of them, so the clone just sits there and gives a steady PPM stream to the Main... If it loses signal, the PPM stream stops, and it alarms.. If the Main receiver loses its input signal, it will switch over to the PPM port and keep going, and alarm signal lost.. clever..

Goose
Old 12-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #182  
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That's the reason I prefer using Dual Path, this way you have 2x RF modules talking to 2x receivers. If you connect them thru PPM data link, you have true dual RF Module & Receiver & Antenna diversity. And you can display signal strength and quality for all 4x Rx antennas directly on the screen.

Also all your programming can be done directly wirelessly in the Transmitter in the Device Explorer, much faster and easier than JetiBox Emulator.

Thanks
Zb/Jeti USA

Last edited by Jeti USA; 12-12-2013 at 09:45 AM.
Old 12-11-2013, 05:25 PM
  #183  
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Zb tell us how to do it thru the ex bus plz. I could not figure it out. Thx.
Old 12-11-2013, 06:31 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post


Well Looky here.. Merry Christmas to me.. Merry christmas to me..and a happy new Year/flying season
Gooooooossssssse
you lucky dog, I want one too!
Old 12-11-2013, 07:10 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by RCISFUN View Post
Gooooooossssssse
you lucky dog, I want one too!
Rich,

You would look so much better in yellow than orange. This could be you!!!!!!

Jim
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:07 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
Zb tell us how to do it thru the ex bus plz. I could not figure it out. Thx.
Goose,

you only need the EX Bus to connect your receivers to external devices like a Central Box or a Powerbox. ZB was talking of the Dual Path with two master receivers bound to the TX but no additional satellite receivers. Slave receivers always have to be connected with the PPM out port routed to the Sat port of the corresponding master.

Thomas
Old 12-12-2013, 04:45 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by bluelevel View Post
Goose,

you only need the EX Bus to connect your receivers to external devices like a Central Box or a Powerbox. ZB was talking of the Dual Path with two master receivers bound to the TX but no additional satellite receivers. Slave receivers always have to be connected with the PPM out port routed to the Sat port of the corresponding master.

Thomas
Someone please confirm that I'm understanding this setup correctly.
For a giant scale airplane using 9 channels, I could use 2, R7 receivers, both configured as master and connect their EX Bus ports.
This would give me full RF redundancy and if one of the R7s fails to receive for some reason, it would see the signal from the other receiver, assuming that at least one of them, received the frame correctly? In other words, with the EX Buss connected, as long as 1 receiver received the signal correctly, both receivers will get the information?
Old 12-12-2013, 07:47 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by wfield0455 View Post
Someone please confirm that I'm understanding this setup correctly.
For a giant scale airplane using 9 channels, I could use 2, R7 receivers, both configured as master and connect their EX Bus ports.
This would give me full RF redundancy and if one of the R7s fails to receive for some reason, it would see the signal from the other receiver, assuming that at least one of them, received the frame correctly? In other words, with the EX Buss connected, as long as 1 receiver received the signal correctly, both receivers will get the information?
Wayne,

are you going to use the receivers ONLY or are you planning to use a Central box or Powerbox as well? Only in this case you are right, without the extra device you'll only have seven channels and of course no full redundancy, because you have to connect your servos to one of the receivers. If you are under the assumption that you could wire receivers in series to get more channels, you are wrong. We discussed this topic earlier.

Thomas
Old 12-12-2013, 09:07 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
Rich,

You would look so much better in yellow than orange. This could be you!!!!!!

Jim
Jim just to be clear are you saying I would get one of those with the purchase of the radio....I'm in!
Old 12-12-2013, 09:21 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by RCISFUN View Post
Jim just to be clear are you saying I would get one of those with the purchase of the radio....I'm in!
Rich,

I would absolutely get you one of those [yellow shirts] when you purchase a Jeti radio. The shirts are available on the Espritmodel.com site. As for Cheyanne, well you are on your own there.

Regards,

Jim
Old 12-12-2013, 09:47 AM
  #191  
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(Made mistake no EX Bus but PPM Out to PPM In, there is NO EX Bus In only EX Bus Out)

Actually NO, the receivers in Dual Path mode can be connected with PPM Out/in.

Zb/Jeti USA
Old 12-12-2013, 09:50 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by wfield0455 View Post
Someone please confirm that I'm understanding this setup correctly.
For a giant scale airplane using 9 channels, I could use 2, R7 receivers, both configured as master and connect their EX Bus ports.
This would give me full RF redundancy and if one of the R7s fails to receive for some reason, it would see the signal from the other receiver, assuming that at least one of them, received the frame correctly? In other words, with the EX Buss connected, as long as 1 receiver received the signal correctly, both receivers will get the information?
Connect PPM ports and set receivers in PIN mapping for Rx #1 to 1-7 channel, Rx #2 8-14 channel.

Zb/Jeti USA
Old 12-12-2013, 11:04 AM
  #193  
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That's why I called it serial mode. I bound a 9ch rx to TX1 in normal mode and a r5L to TX2 in normal mode. Then set the R5L to ppm output and set the 9ch rx SAT port to monitor for PPM in with a alarm code s. All from the device explorer

tx is in dual path. I get telemetry on both receivers. I mapped 1-9 on the master and set the R5L to same 1-9chan at same frame rate. Then connected port 5 of R5L to SAT port of 9ch.

That at gave me full telemetry and the ppm port is monitored. The main rx then can degrade to the ppm stream coming in the sat port if it loses signal from tx1 and the weak signal will sound if the sat receiver quits providing ppm. Set fail safe off too on R5L. In addition telemetry alarm sounds if either receiver loses signal.

I like this idea so far. I wasn't crazy about a clone rx with no telemetry. This is dual path and redundant. All my servos are on main rx.

Downside of this setup is single path for each rx. Upside is you can see satellite rx telemetry and log it. Thoughts?

Last edited by gooseF22; 12-12-2013 at 11:10 AM.
Old 12-12-2013, 12:18 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Jeti USA View Post
Connect PPM ports and set receivers in PIN mapping for Rx #1 to 1-7 channel, Rx #2 8-14 channel.

Zb/Jeti USA
Ok, so far this is exactly what I had planned with the exception of using the PPM ports instead of the EX bus port.
So I have both receivers configured as masters, the PPM ports connected and channels 1-7 mapped to receiver #1 and channels 8-14 mapped to receiver #2. My question
is if the RF section controlling the receiver driving channels 1-7 fails will ALL my servo continue to operate due to the PPM connection, or will only channels 8 - 14 continue to operate. If ALL of them won't continue to operate, what is the reason for connecting the PPM ports?
Old 12-12-2013, 12:48 PM
  #195  
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Not sure, but I don't think so Wayne,

If you have servos plugged into both rx and are driving them on ports 1-7, and 8-14 respectively, and you lose #1 rx, they will not cross drive..

What I think you want to do is map both receivers to the highest number of channels your largest receiver has.. ALL the receivers can PPM all 16 channels even though they have less ports... you can hook a 3 chan rX to a R14, and you can set it to drive 14 chan via its PPM output..

TO find the output port of each receiver that puts out PPM, see the chart in the RX manual for the port that is configurable.



My question is however, how can I induce a failure of Rx#1, so that I can confirm that the #2 receiver will PPM drive the #1 receiver.. I cannot find a selective way to do that so far.. Maybe thru the jetibox?

And yes, I do know the PPM port is monitored via SAT but Im interesting in seeing actually drive the servos.. the joy of learning
Old 12-12-2013, 01:09 PM
  #196  
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http://www.jetimodel.com/en/Examples...ir-satellites/

Good reading on Satellites and a board review... Me likey that it has signal isolation on a Per channel basis.. gooood design...
Old 12-12-2013, 01:30 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
Not sure, but I don't think so Wayne,

If you have servos plugged into both rx and are driving them on ports 1-7, and 8-14 respectively, and you lose #1 rx, they will not cross drive..

What I think you want to do is map both receivers to the highest number of channels your largest receiver has.. ALL the receivers can PPM all 16 channels even though they have less ports... you can hook a 3 chan rX to a R14, and you can set it to drive 14 chan via its PPM output..

TO find the output port of each receiver that puts out PPM, see the chart in the RX manual for the port that is configurable.



My question is however, how can I induce a failure of Rx#1, so that I can confirm that the #2 receiver will PPM drive the #1 receiver.. I cannot find a selective way to do that so far.. Maybe thru the jetibox?

And yes, I do know the PPM port is monitored via SAT but Im interesting in seeing actually drive the servos.. the joy of learning
The first part of your reply has me a bit confused but that isn't surprising as I'm still quite new to this system and have a lot to learn, hence all the questions. If I understood you correctly, you're suggesting that I have both receivers (2, 7 R7s) drive 14 channels on their PPM output. I'm not quite sure of the logistics of how to do that but it make sense.

I was also wondering how to simulate a signal loss to 1 receiver and as usual I came up with a "brute force and ignorance" approach. It is simple enough that I think it just might work. Why not simply slide a piece of brass tubing, with one end crimped shut, over each of the antennas on one of the receivers. I would think that should do an adequate job of blocking the signal. If it does we should be able to tell by the telemetry, or lack of telemetry from that receiver.

Last edited by wfield0455; 12-12-2013 at 01:42 PM.
Old 12-12-2013, 01:35 PM
  #198  
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Receivers in 3.11 version and newer ones have a default setting of the output period of 17ms to ensure reliable operation of analogue servos that are not able to accept signal with shorter period. In case you use digital servos, set the output period to „Auto“. In this version the servo outputs are adjusted for using groups „A-C“ only.
Receivers with older versions operate in default setting with the output period of 20ms. In this case adjust the output period to „By Transmitter“. It is necessary to alter all the outputs via JETIBOX so that only groups „A-C“ are used. Device Explorer application is not available in older versions.


I know this is hard to read, but note the speed restrictions.. If you use Digital servos, you can speed up and use "Auto" speed.. IF you are mixing analog and digitals, use 17ms or greater.. older receivers use .20ms.."by transmitter"..

So for my digital servo Jets, Im thinking we can set the receivers to Auto.. ZB?
Old 12-12-2013, 01:48 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by wfield0455 View Post
The first part of your reply has me a bit confused but that isn't surprising as I'm still quite new to this system and have a lot to learn, hence all the questions.
I was also wondering how to simulate a signal loss to 1 receiver and as usual I came up with a "brute force and ignorance" approach that is simple enough it should work. Why not simply slide a piece of brass tubing, with one end crimped shut, over each of the antennas on one of the receivers. I would think that should do an adequate job of blocking the signal. If it does we should be able to tell by the telemetry, or lack of telemetry from that receiver.
Wayne, Im new too.. 3 days w the transmitter, but Im not new to radio design..I had the privilege of lab testing the brand new DX7 back when.. we were searching for a robust link for a high noise environment of a video output.. so we picked apart both Spektrum and FHSS..

I think we are really asking the same questions, how to create the most robust redundant links.. Thats what Im drilling down to.. But there are limitations with both ways of doing things here.. And understanding all the settings is difficult.. the pieces and parts are there but I cannot find a definitive guide that says" For a Jet with a redundant receiver, do this....."

I tried lead pipe over the antenna.. with digital communication, it doesn't take much Leakage around the coax to make it work anyway.. I would like a simple way to reduce/stop power on each transmitter module independently in range test mode.. that would do it.. I don't know the switching thresholds, the algorithms and such just yet..

I am also trying to find out the timing of the PPM system, so that I don't get any biasing, and that it just freakin works if you do these settings..

I am talking to Jim "RCJets63" daily, as we work through this.. I have my trojan set up as a test bed and Im experimenting with it as it goes.. I just installed a Mvario, a GPS, an Expander, a Rx9 and a linked R5L in it yesterday.. I put some functions into it like butterfly as well..so Im just figuring out the setup... but my focus is on having a redundant/diverse backup PPM signal to the primary receiver..

It appears that you can actually add 2 satellite receivers to a R14.. one in normal, one in clone...or both in clone

SO Im trying to understand the pros and cons of using these options...

1. Both Transmitters bound to a Master Rx, and a Clone Rx connected via PPM or
2. Each Transmitter bound in Normally to each receiver, connected via PPM, and which is better..

goose
Old 12-12-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
I think we are really asking the same questions, how to create the most robust redundant links.. Thats what Im drilling down to.. But there are limitations with both ways of doing things here.. And understanding all the settings is difficult.. the pieces and parts are there but I cannot find a definitive guide that says" For a Jet with a redundant receiver, do this....."
<snip>
I am talking to Jim "RCJets63" daily, as we work through this.. I have my trojan set up as a test bed and Im experimenting with it as it goes....so Im just figuring out the setup... but my focus is on having a redundant/diverse backup PPM signal to the primary receiver..

SO Im trying to understand the pros and cons of using these options...

1. Both Transmitters bound to a Master Rx, and a Clone Rx connected via PPM or
2. Each Transmitter bound in Normally to each receiver, connected via PPM, and which is better..

goose
Unlike a "standard" system with one transmitter and one receiver (such as Futaba) or with one transmitter and a core receiver with satellites (such a JR/Spektrum), the Jeti system has two transmitter modules and can use multiple receivers/satellites. There are multiple ways of connecting/using the components and this flexibility gives the user the ability to configure the system to best meet their needs. One should note that the needs of a particular jet pilot/model may be different than those of another jet pilot/model, and the needs of jet pilots/models in general are likely different than those of (for instance) IMAC pilots/models. The one thing that we can likely agreee upon is that we'd all like the most robust & redundant RF link possible.

Goose and I are working through the various configurations (Dual path with multiple receivers in various modes, Default with both Tx modules bound to the receivers, receivers connected via PPM, Ex Bus, clone modes, satellites). As with anything in life, when you make a choice, there are always pluses and minuses. There seem to be so many possibilities that the user may be confused (we certainly have had those moments). We are simply trying to identify the capabilities, pluses, and potential minuses of each configuration. My hope is that we can explain our findings in an easy to understand way to assist other Jeti owners (or potential owners) in making informed setup/configuration decisions based on their individual needs.

Regards,

Jim

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