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French Rafale getting ready for top gun

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French Rafale getting ready for top gun

Old 04-20-2014, 08:26 AM
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uncljoe
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Default French Rafale getting ready for top gun

Jim McEwen s Rafele .... Good luck at Top Gun
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:53 AM
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Those pics do the plane justice. Thanks for sharing!
Old 04-20-2014, 04:47 PM
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Good luck, Jim, and have fun at Top Gun!
Old 04-20-2014, 06:53 PM
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Nice plane!

Shaz
Old 04-20-2014, 11:48 PM
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Thanks for taking the pics Joe and thank you guys for the comments and best wishes. I'm pretty excited to be competing at TG for the first time. My goal is to 1) bring the plane home in one piece, 2) make the cut, 3) not embarrass myself. Frank puts on a great event and I'm grateful to have received some excellent coaching from Brian O'Meara.

Regards

Jim
Old 04-21-2014, 03:42 AM
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Great looking jet! Good luck at TG Jim.

Craig
Old 04-21-2014, 08:54 AM
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Looking good Jim! Seya at TG.
Old 04-21-2014, 09:05 AM
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Nice pics U.Joe and beautiful airplane this one from your friend.., congrats!

and not trying to be a prophet of doom, beware with that tank drop maneuver.,, A top builder and pilot lost one when the tanks got struck in the wings, many years ago. (the tanks where the ones in the wings)
Old 04-21-2014, 10:16 AM
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rcjets_63
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erbroens,

Yes, that particular incident is rather well known and and unfortunately led to the loss of a beautiful model. The incident involved two very large "subsonic" tanks being released from the wing pylons. My understanding is that one of the tanks got hung up and possibly hit the plane. Asymmetric drag would have made matters worse.

Dropping tanks or ordnance (from a model or a full scale aircraft) isn't as simple as may seem. The release mechanism must be reliable, the stores must drop away cleanly without the possibility of getting hung up or striking the plane. Full scale fighters (such as the F-16) include a pyrotechnic charge that fires to push the bomb/tank away and there are limits of the +ve/-ve "G" at which the stores may be released.

In my case, I built the smaller "supersonic" style tank and installed it on a centerline pylon below the plane. Since it is only a single tank on the centerline, I don't have to worry about asymetric drag should there be a release failure. Additionally, there is nothing on the underside of the fuselage on which the tank can get caught. The tank is installed at a slight negative angle to accomodate the AOA of the plane flying in level flight. The front of the pylon was designed to create a local region of high pressure at the top/front of the tank to push the tank downwards on release. The BVM EZ drop is a simple and reliable release mechanism which we have previously tested releasing 1-1/2 lb stores. The eyebolt into the tank is carefully adjusted such that the tank has minimal play on the pylon and there is little sideload on the release pin. There is an alignment guide at the rear of the tank to keep it straight on the pylon. The drop is controlled by a button valve tripped by the brake servo using a mix. The setup was tested/adjusted extensively on the ground and then flight tested this weekend to ensure it functioned perfectly before bringing the jet to a major show. Five drop tests were done. The last four were perfect; the first attempt was a failure as I'd forgotten to connect the airline (D-oh!) but this gave an opportunity to land the plane in a strong crosswind with the tank attached. As you can see by the first three photos, the landing went fine too.

Still, point taken and I don't expect to be dropping the tank all that often. Why go looking for trouble as scale jets are already complicated. Also dropping onto hard packed Arizona desert is a bit harder on the tank than dropping onto grass.

Regards,

Jim

Last edited by rcjets_63; 04-21-2014 at 10:30 AM.
Old 04-21-2014, 02:29 PM
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Jim, best of Luck at TG this year... I know "Lucky" can do it!
Old 04-21-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
erbroens,

Yes, that particular incident is rather well known and and unfortunately led to the loss of a beautiful model. The incident involved two very large "subsonic" tanks being released from the wing pylons. My understanding is that one of the tanks got hung up and possibly hit the plane. Asymmetric drag would have made matters worse.

Dropping tanks or ordnance (from a model or a full scale aircraft) isn't as simple as may seem. The release mechanism must be reliable, the stores must drop away cleanly without the possibility of getting hung up or striking the plane. Full scale fighters (such as the F-16) include a pyrotechnic charge that fires to push the bomb/tank away and there are limits of the +ve/-ve "G" at which the stores may be released.

In my case, I built the smaller "supersonic" style tank and installed it on a centerline pylon below the plane. Since it is only a single tank on the centerline, I don't have to worry about asymetric drag should there be a release failure. Additionally, there is nothing on the underside of the fuselage on which the tank can get caught. The tank is installed at a slight negative angle to accomodate the AOA of the plane flying in level flight. The front of the pylon was designed to create a local region of high pressure at the top/front of the tank to push the tank downwards on release. The BVM EZ drop is a simple and reliable release mechanism which we have previously tested releasing 1-1/2 lb stores. The eyebolt into the tank is carefully adjusted such that the tank has minimal play on the pylon and there is little sideload on the release pin. There is an alignment guide at the rear of the tank to keep it straight on the pylon. The drop is controlled by a button valve tripped by the brake servo using a mix. The setup was tested/adjusted extensively on the ground and then flight tested this weekend to ensure it functioned perfectly before bringing the jet to a major show. Five drop tests were done. The last four were perfect; the first attempt was a failure as I'd forgotten to connect the airline (D-oh!) but this gave an opportunity to land the plane in a strong crosswind with the tank attached. As you can see by the first three photos, the landing went fine too.

Still, point taken and I don't expect to be dropping the tank all that often. Why go looking for trouble as scale jets are already complicated. Also dropping onto hard packed Arizona desert is a bit harder on the tank than dropping onto grass.

Regards,

Jim
You are right, it is the other type of tank that creates trouble. My dad's also hit the wing, but it didn't get caught. The problem with those tanks is that they create a lot of lift, and they don't drop down but try to fly up upon release, hitting the leading edge, traveling all the way towards the tip and getting hung up on the missile rails.

Not to mention that the lift was so high, that the trim change between tanks on or no tanks was huge. Really made the plane fly horribly.

But in your case it does not seem to be a problem.

Is yours a single or twin? what are you using for power? I hope to get mine (well the one I stole haha) back in the air soon. I really miss it. So much fun to fly

Later
Jack
Old 04-21-2014, 04:22 PM
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Absolutely,.. dropping the center tank is likely to be safer than the two underwing tanks.. I donīt remember exact details about that crash, but I guess that the irregular shape of the subsonic tanks may helped them to got stuck in the wings.

Anyway, good luck at topgun with this nice bird.. it looks great!
Old 04-21-2014, 10:30 PM
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Jack,

Mine is a single engine with a P200SX for power. I hope you get yours back in the air soon; they really are great to fly.

Regards,

Jim
Old 04-22-2014, 01:31 AM
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Good luck Jim.... Who supplies that model?
Old 04-22-2014, 02:17 AM
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Hi Jim,

Maybe I missed all the information on your jet somewhere. Please can you tell me if it is a kit or a scratch built model. If it is a kit, who is the manufacturer and is it available in ARF?

Good luck at TG.

Jan
Old 04-22-2014, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
Hi Jim,

Maybe I missed all the information on your jet somewhere. Please can you tell me if it is a kit or a scratch built model. If it is a kit, who is the manufacturer and is it available in ARF?

Good luck at TG.

Jan
Jan,

It's a BVM kit that was based on the original design by Franz Walti who won the 4th Jet World Masters with it back in 2001. It was offered by BVM as either a twin or single turbine. Although highly prefabricated for it's day, it still required a fair amount of building and finishing and not that many were ever sold. BVM discontinued it several years ago.

Shame, since it is one of the best designed and best flying scale military jets I have seen.

Craig
Old 04-22-2014, 04:06 AM
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Hi Craig,

Thanks for clearing that up. I know the jet - I was at Wroughton in 1997 with the World Jet Masters when Franz Walti flew it. I remember Bob then showing a lot of interest to market the model. It certainly is an impressive jet all round, pity it has not had many takers. Perhaps one of the Chinese manufacturers can pick up on the design and blow some new life in to it.

Cheers,

Jan
Old 04-22-2014, 04:52 AM
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I hope it's not a FEJ the copy will be useless ,the feibao have ok model with nice finish and not much smaller will fly nice with p-120 and if you looking for big one Aviation Design have one .
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sysiek View Post
I hope it's not a FEJ the copy will be useless ,the feibao have ok model with nice finish and not much smaller will fly nice with p-120 and if you looking for big one Aviation Design have one .
Yes, I here the Fei Bao Rafale has a great manual....

http://www.fbjets.com/manual/Rafel1.pdf
Old 04-22-2014, 01:02 PM
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Yes Rich, you did a good job writing the manual. The Fei Bao Rafale however isn't a particularly great model and I base that opinion on having owned (as in built and flew) one. The BVM Rafale is miles ahead of the Fei Bao in terms of how well it flies, it's presence in the air, not to mention it's fidelity to scale and it's quality. The BVM Rafale has wins at the Jet World Masters and Top Gun; the FB Rafale....not. I wish BVM would put the Rafale back into production.

I'm really impressed with the BVM Rafale. Andy bought one too. Buck, Sebastian, Jack Diaz (both father and son) have one. I'm trying to talk Goose into buying one and Dantley is looking for one too. Hopefully at Winnimac or BITW, we can get at least three of them into the air at the same time.

Regards,

Jim
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:57 PM
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Hey Jim,
You should have bough Jack's for a spare
He sold it to a guy in Eastern PA....

No doubts on the way the BVM flys...
Old 04-23-2014, 12:40 PM
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:46 PM
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Hi Guys,

Lucky to have the BVM Rafale, which i should start building soon. I do have a Mammoth for her, just wondering if the Behotec 220 would be a better choice for lower wing loading. For those of you who have flown the Rafale, do you think the lower wing loading will make a significant difference in flight characteristics.

Thanks
Chatty.
Old 04-23-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by c_makhija View Post
Hi Guys,

Lucky to have the BVM Rafale, which i should start building soon. I do have a Mammoth for her, just wondering if the Behotec 220 would be a better choice for lower wing loading. For those of you who have flown the Rafale, do you think the lower wing loading will make a significant difference in flight characteristics.

Thanks
Chatty.
I would go for the highest thrust to weight ratio you can get.

I have only flown twins, and the one i have here runs on two cheetahs (62 pounds of thrust). Not sure is a lot heavier than the single mammoth, but vertical performance is amazing, and the way it goes from high alpha to vertical is just insane. My dad flies his back home on two kt180's :-0


What is the thrust on the behotec?

Please, measure the wall thickness on the wing tubes. The initial kits had thin walled tubes and cant take the thrust of the newer engines. BV can set you up with thicker ones if you have the thin ones. I don't remember the right thickness, but I will measure it when I get home and let you know

Enjoy your plane
Jack
Old 04-23-2014, 06:59 PM
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Same hire my have two super eagles and it's powerful ,I just can't imagine with two k-180crazy, I did eurofighter with one k-180 and go back to p-160 ,will check my wing tubes thanks for the tip .

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