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PST engines ECU upgrade

Old 08-22-2014, 02:40 AM
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David Gladwin
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Default PST engines ECU upgrade

I currently operate 4 PST engines, 2 600Rs and two 1300s. All came with the old TEMS ECU and GDT. The 600s are over 12 years old the, 1300s about 7 and have hundreds of flights between them with extraordinary reliability.

The TEMS is now out of production and production engines are supplied with Xicoy electronics. I now have both a 1300 (the Xicoy really transformed this engine) and 600 upgraded to Xicoys, the 600 calibration was completed this morning. Starts are much faster, about half the time of the TEMS, and cooler and engine operation is even better with faster acceleration. I have adjusted the parameters in the 600 and Xicoy settings for both the 1300 and 600 are available by PM for anyone who wishes to change to Xicoys. Settings are for Flite Works pumps and you need to install a new rpm sensor, an easy job, just a straight swap.

My 600 was inspected after 30 hours of running and was found to be in almost new condition inside, a fine testamony to Mike Murphy's original design and PST construction standard.

I understand that PST engines can also be converted to kero start, aslo using Xicoy ECUs, not done on mine yet.

David G.
Old 08-22-2014, 03:53 AM
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tp777fo
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These motors are very underrated. I had a couple that were flawless. One is still going strong after about 12 years with only a bearing change and update to the XICOY ECU.
Old 08-22-2014, 06:50 AM
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I completely agree, I run a J1300R and a J1600R both with Xicoy ECU and both converted to Kerostart by PST.. They are amazingly smooth, powerful and RELIABLE engines...

PST do A LOT of research into their production, and in fact are running the J1600R ( PST Own Design ) with an AFTERBURNER on one of their military projects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgPhOzmpREk

Brilliant Engines.
Old 08-22-2014, 12:55 PM
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The 1300R is specially a gem, got close to 50 hours on mine, starts and runs flawlessly. Are they still in the hobby business?

Chatty
Old 08-22-2014, 01:12 PM
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Hi Dave, my 1300 is running great. Sometimes a bit temperamental to start, but once running, seems to be reliable. I am glad to hear that you had great success converting to the Xicoy. I have a Xicoy now that I am going to try out on my Simjet. I do have one question for you though, is your 1300 still idling up at 40,000, or were you able to turn that down a bit with the Xicoy ?
Old 08-23-2014, 05:34 AM
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Info please on settings
Old 08-27-2014, 02:25 AM
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David Gladwin
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Below are the settings for the Xicoy settings for the PST 1300 and 600.

The 1300 settings give the quickest and coolest starts of any of my engines, but I am still refining the settings on the start cycle of the 600 to get the same smoothness.

The 600 engine was flight tested on Sunday and performance was crisper than with TEMS.

PST 1300, 600 Xicoy settings
Max 120,000, 160,000 ( PST say 163k)
Idle 36,000 55,000.
Pump start Auto +4 auto +3
Start ramp, 8, 9
Plug, 2, 2v
Gas 100/100
Start power at ignition 089/ 068
Ign max rpm, 4000/6000
Min 4000/6000 (yes same)
Preheat 2/2
Gas off 33,000/45,000
Starter at preheat 090/096
100 % starter rpm 24,000,22,000
reconnect, 20,000/33,000
max temp 800/800
pump limit 1020/812
accel delay 040/009
decle delay015,010
stability delay097/096


David G.

As an addition to the above, I have now increased the start ramp to 12 on the 600 and am getting a better transition to fuel.

I am increasing just one unit at a time, I'll try again later today when I buy some more gas and batteries are recharged !

PS: nailed it !

The roughness has now gone. I bypassed the gas valve and fed it o the engine directly from the bottle. Switched off gas at 45 K rpm., lovely starts now, vastly quicker and cooler than TEMS, about 20 secs v 1 min ! Start ramped increased to 12, just a tiny touch of flame, dropping it one click should mean perfection. Will replace the gas valve with an original Wren unit.

Last edited by David Gladwin; 08-27-2014 at 08:38 AM.
Old 08-27-2014, 12:54 PM
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I have a 1300... its crap.. converted it to xicoy.. runs better.. get major compressor stall anywhere near 11kg of thrust. I pulled tge compressor out and checked its map.. came out of a old to4b garret turbo. Wrong compressor for this job. I ordered a kawasaki cfd billet compressor same dimensions but much better efficiency. No more stall. Very fast acceleration. More thrust. Much better fuel economy.
Ill be converting my other one that does the same thing next for my f16.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by David Gladwin View Post
Below are the settings for the Xicoy settings for the PST 1300 and 600.

The 1300 settings give the quickest and coolest starts of any of my engines, but I am still refining the settings on the start cycle of the 600 to get the same smoothness.

The 600 engine was flight tested on Sunday and performance was crisper than with TEMS.

PST 1300, 600 Xicoy settings
Max 120,000, 160,000 ( PST say 163k)
Idle 36,000 55,000.
Pump start Auto +4 auto +3
Start ramp, 8, 9
Plug, 2, 2v
Gas 100/100
Start power at ignition 089/ 068
Ign max rpm, 4000/6000
Min 4000/6000 (yes same)
Preheat 2/2
Gas off 33,000/45,000
Starter at preheat 090/096
100 % starter rpm 24,000,22,000
reconnect, 20,000/33,000
max temp 800/800
pump limit 1020/812
accel delay 040/009
decle delay015,010
stability delay097/096


David G.

As an addition to the above, I have now increased the start ramp to 12 on the 600 and am getting a better transition to fuel.

I am increasing just one unit at a time, I'll try again later today when I buy some more gas and batteries are recharged !

PS: nailed it !

The roughness has now gone. I bypassed the gas valve and fed it o the engine directly from the bottle. Switched off gas at 45 K rpm., lovely starts now, vastly quicker and cooler than TEMS, about 20 secs v 1 min ! Start ramped increased to 12, just a tiny touch of flame, dropping it one click should mean perfection. Will replace the gas valve with an original Wren unit.
Wow David!! I could not have found this info at a better time. Im just about to program my P-60 with an xicoy ECU. Yes I know they a different engines... but still very similar and I do believe your settings will get me in the ball park. Thanks very much for sharing!!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...-question.html

Trevor
Old 08-27-2014, 10:41 PM
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David

i think you have a mistake on the 600 settings. The reconnect speed you say is 33,000 and I think you mean 23,000. You seem to have missed off the starter off speed. For both engines, might be helpful to others if it was included.


John
Old 08-28-2014, 12:42 AM
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David Gladwin
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Hi John,

I have rechecked the figures. The 1300 settings are as supplied in the preprogrammed Xicoy from PST. Interestingly the 100 % speed is at 24k rpm but OFF speed is 22k rpm (About2/3rds of idle RPM) suggesting the motor never receives full power. That said starts are superb.

On the 600 many of the settings I have used on my new Xicoy were extracted from the old TEMS unit.

Starter OFF is 35k rpm, (about 2/3rds idle RPM)reconnect 33k. RPM.

I may further refine these settings as experience of programming the Xicoy builds.

Not had time to look at the Xicoy settings on my Supersport but that has a different pump, Hausl v. Flightworks but I guess settings would be similar.

The transitional roughness I experienced may well be a problem with the gas valve, as starts on manual gas, bypassing the valve, are absolutely fine and very rapid with just a slight trace of exhaust flame.

In time I will convert my other 1300 and 600 to Xicoy, delightful units.

My Gold 44 was recently converted to Kero start using a Xicoy and the Hausl magnetically coupled pump, works very well !!

With all your experience any further help or advice from you would be warmly received.

Best regards,

David.
Old 08-28-2014, 04:38 AM
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David

The motor, assuming it is a speed 300 motor, has a max no load speed of 29,000 rpm. If you set the RPM off higher than this you may well find the engine will hang onto the starter and get hot.

Yes I use the Hausl magnetically coupled pumps for my Sprite engines as well as the 44. It is interesting to see inside it and it truly does not have a direct drive to the gear. However all brushed pumps have problems. I have had problems with one of my magnetic Hausl pumps sticking until I give it a quick burst of electrically to free it. All the Flightworks small pumps I used had problems with as they kept sticking. The best by far was the larger Xicoy brushed pump, but I know they are carefully tested before leaving the factory, however they are in short supply.

With Flightworks pumps you will probably find that the auto + settings do not work and you have to give it a fixed value.

John
Old 08-28-2014, 05:30 AM
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David Gladwin
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Hi John,
Thank you for your input. I have another 600 with TEMS and I will look again at the starter OFF rpm. That said, this particular 600 has done about 250 flights without trouble. I will, however, back off the starter off rpm and see how the start is affected.
Thanks again,

David.
Old 08-28-2014, 05:39 AM
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Very interesting reading here guys... Happy your on board John
Old 08-28-2014, 06:13 AM
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Hi David

If it works then don't change it! I presume you are using a 2 cell Lipo?

John
Old 08-28-2014, 07:35 AM
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David.. What did you set the START/MIN TEMP at?

Also Im a bit confused by the way you posted some values. For example... Start power at ignition 089/069 so which is it? I guess Im asking what the exact values you are using as there seems to be a lot of leeway.


Old 08-28-2014, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Vettster View Post
David.. What did you set the START/MIN TEMP at?

Also Im a bit confused by the way you posted some values. For example... Start power at ignition 089/069 so which is it? I guess Im asking what the exact values you are using as there seems to be a lot of leeway.
I believe he has both values listed for both engines with the first number being the value for the 1300 and the second value for the 600. (i.e. 089/069)
Old 08-28-2014, 07:47 AM
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awwww Yes! That would make a lot of sense. Thanks!
Old 08-28-2014, 07:50 AM
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Still need the START/MIN TEMP though...
Old 08-28-2014, 07:59 AM
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David Gladwin
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Thanks, Johm, yes 2 cell lithium Ion.

Temperature for start is 100 !

David.

Last edited by David Gladwin; 08-28-2014 at 08:27 AM.
Old 08-28-2014, 08:02 AM
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Thank You..
Old 08-28-2014, 08:32 AM
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Sorry David.... One more missing parameter. Under the RUN menu... What is your STOP SPEED RPM set to?

Sorry for troubling you..


EDIT.. Since my engine has an idle speed of 50,000 Ive set it to 40,000 John does this sound ok? Engine is now on the test bench and about to be run for the first time with the xicoy FADEC

Last edited by Vettster; 08-28-2014 at 10:42 AM.
Old 08-28-2014, 11:35 AM
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David Gladwin
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Stop for 1300 is 28 k rpm, 600 is 45krpm
Old 08-28-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Vettster View Post
Sorry David.... One more missing parameter. Under the RUN menu... What is your STOP SPEED RPM set to?

Sorry for troubling you..


EDIT.. Since my engine has an idle speed of 50,000 Ive set it to 40,000 John does this sound ok? Engine is now on the test bench and about to be run for the first time with the xicoy FADEC
yes I would give it a try with the figures you currently have. The engine may start first time, but you may have to tweak them. You should be ready to stop the start by raising the trim if the engine fails to gain speed and the rpm slows and it gets hot. Make sure if you are using Futaba to reverse the throttle channel. Also make sure you correctly go through the learning Tx procedure.

i will be very interested to hear your results.

John
Old 08-28-2014, 04:25 PM
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Thanks for the data David

Thanks for the input John.. I will pay careful attention to what you have mentioned. Im using a JR.. But I will re-learn it now that all the changes have been made, just to be on the safe side.

So..... if the engine does get hot and not build up RPMs... What would that be an indication of ? What parameter must be changed?

Thanks guys!

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