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FAA now recruiting State, and Local Law enforcement to enforce interpretation?

Old 01-09-2015, 02:40 PM
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Frank Alvarez
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Default FAA now recruiting State, and Local Law enforcement to enforce interpretation?

January 8–The proliferation of small, relatively inexpensive unmanned aircraft (UAS) presents the Federal Aviation Administration with a challenge in identifying people who don’t follow the rules of the air or who endanger the nation’s airspace. So, the agency is asking the law enforcement community for help.
The FAA released guidance to the law enforcement community explaining the legal framework for the agency’s oversight of aviation safety in the U.S., including UAS operations. The guidance describes how UAS and model aircraft can be operated legally, and the options for legal enforcement actions against unauthorized or unsafe UAS operators. The document also discusses the law enforcement community’s vital role in deterring, detecting and investigating unsafe operations.
State and local police are often in the best position to immediately investigate unauthorized UAS operations, and as appropriate, to stop them. The document explains how first responders and others can provide invaluable assistance to the FAA by:

  • Identifying potential witnesses and conducting initial interviews
  • Contacting the suspected operators of the UAS or model aircraft
  • Viewing and recording the location of the event
  • Collecting evidence
  • Identifying if the UAS operation was in a sensitive location, event or activity
  • Notifying one of the FAA’s Regional Operation Centers about the operation as soon as possible
The FAA’s goal is to promote voluntary compliance by educating individual UAS operators about how they can operate safely under current regulations and laws, but the guidance makes clear the agency’s authority to pursue legal enforcement action against persons who endanger the safety of the National Airspace System.
The guidance stresses that while the FAA exercises caution not to mix criminal law enforcement with agency administrative safety enforcements, the public is best served by coordinating and fostering mutual understanding and cooperation between governmental entities with law enforcement responsibilities.
> View the FAA’s law enforcement guidance
> More information on the FAA and UAS,
Old 01-09-2015, 02:46 PM
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MorseAircraftDevelopment
 
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Wow, that's all I can say.
Old 01-09-2015, 03:30 PM
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757Driver
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[/QUOTE]
The FAA’s goal is to promote voluntary compliance by educating individual UAS operators about how they can operate safely under current regulations and laws, but the guidance makes clear the agency’s authority to pursue legal enforcement action against persons who endanger the safety of the National Airspace System.
The guidance stresses that while the FAA exercises caution not to mix criminal law enforcement with agency administrative safety enforcements, the public is best served by coordinating and fostering mutual understanding and cooperation between governmental entities with law enforcement responsibilities.
> View the FAA’s law enforcement guidance
> More information on the FAA and UAS,[/QUOTE]

First the FAA has exceeded its authority. The AGENCY acknowledged that by stating "caution not to mix criminal law enforcement with agency administrative safety enforcements".

If they wanted "to promote voluntary compliance by educating individual UAS operators" I believe a letter to all AMA members, social media, ect. Would be more in line with the limitations on the authority of an AGENCY.

Im pissed! Jets are next fellas....it's time for action to protect our clubs.
I want to see prohibited airspace around all AMA Clubs. 2 mile Radius up to 3000' AGL.

I also wonder if there there are grounds for a legal action against the FAA for utilizing law enforcement to expand their reach into a place they were never intended?
Old 01-09-2015, 04:27 PM
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jws_aces
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Well one really bad thing I read is the guys that are in the DC FDZ area. They are going to be shut down just like full size if there are any clubs in that area.
Old 01-09-2015, 08:27 PM
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sideshow
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Im pissed! Jets are next fellas....it's time for action to protect our clubs.
I want to see prohibited airspace around all AMA Clubs. 2 mile Radius up to 3000' AGL.
Prohibited? No.....

SUA....maybe
Old 01-10-2015, 07:01 AM
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tp777fo
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Very vague guidance to the police. Now everytime we fly anything barney is going to be out to get us. We have already seen police stop guys flying drones in parks and other public areas just because they can, with no legal justification. Lets make the law "on the fly" will be the way it works. The FAA is totally out of control.
Old 01-10-2015, 07:28 AM
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This is a 2 way street! If idiots with quad copters and FPV would stop being morons we wouldn't be in such a situation! I'm so sick of people flying these things over kids soccer games, over other people's property, extreme high altitudes of full scale traffic and over crowded places like amusement parks! If these people would join the AMA and fly at approved locations this would barely be an issue! But instead every time a story hits the news the FAA steps up the game. Their biggest problem is they blanket the rules and don't seperate the people following the rules from the backyard Cowboys!!!
Old 01-10-2015, 09:22 AM
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f106jax
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Asking for and getting are two different things. We have more than enough tasks with our mission than to take on a portion of a federal agency's work load also. I suspect that there may be several isolated incidents where state and municipal police will become involved but they will be the rarity.
Old 01-10-2015, 11:18 AM
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Eddie P
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Originally Posted by bri6672 View Post
This is a 2 way street! If idiots with quad copters and FPV would stop being morons we wouldn't be in such a situation! I'm so sick of people flying these things over kids soccer games, over other people's property, extreme high altitudes of full scale traffic and over crowded places like amusement parks! If these people would join the AMA and fly at approved locations this would barely be an issue! But instead every time a story hits the news the FAA steps up the game. Their biggest problem is they blanket the rules and don't seperate the people following the rules from the backyard Cowboys!!!
This is SO TRUE! Boy wonder "Trappy" and his fanboys... notwithstanding their cries and false drumbeats of "poor me" after recklessly kicking the bee hive over while being warned and asked to use discretion before hand, the entire time.

I have to draw the line somewhere though. I know the FAA are mad that they had to defend their charge to safely manage airspace. I know there are some irresponsible RC operators out there with all the gizmos and expensive camera equipment, endangering the public with city flyovers of RC machines and commercial operations going on with hobby equipment. Many of these guys are clowns and new comers. Yes I know that. They can be dealt with on a case by case basis.

However.

The line has to be drawn at the FAA sicking the police on RC hobbiests - even if just sicking them on us in a surveillance task. Legal activity should never be allowed to be a reason to go under surveillance, as that constitutes a de facto invasion of privacy IMHO. It's a slippery slope and one that can / will easily lead to over reaches and civil rights violations. (Declaration of Independence sorta stuff!). The fun police? It's not just a name to call someone anymore. It's a reality. That frustrates me as a tax payer and someone who enables our society to function with my tax revenue and intellectual talent in the work force. This is not cool, and if it comes to pass, it will be intolerable in principle.
Old 01-10-2015, 12:19 PM
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sysiek
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This will turn in to a bunch of sneaches and confidant's paid by FAA I hope the pay good.
Old 01-10-2015, 12:21 PM
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The problem isn't the FCC or the police. The problem is IDIOTS. This past summer there was a local real estate agent flying his Phantom over the crowd at a Jimmy Buffet concert taking movies and crapping up the audience's listening experience with the whine of his quad. Would you want to pay good money to attend a music venue and have an IDIOT ruin it for you?

Now, don't get me wrong. I own and fly a Phantom but do so in a way that respects others safety.

Until there is another way to reign in the IDIOTS, the FAA will utilize whatever tools they find.

Last edited by Krumpel; 01-10-2015 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Corrected to FAA not FCC
Old 01-10-2015, 12:24 PM
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ledd4u
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Got a MIG-15 turbine, Spitfire all for sale. Did not renew AMA, I give up. Will fly rubber band planes from now on. Towerhobbies probably go out of bus
Old 01-10-2015, 12:34 PM
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OK I've settled down. I'm still miffed though. It is true that the idiots are the ones that have put us here, and the FAA / Local police are doing their jobs. But I don't think the people making policy at the FAA get such a free pass if they go too far.
Old 01-10-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ledd4u View Post
Got a MIG-15 turbine, Spitfire all for sale. Did not renew AMA, I give up. Will fly rubber band planes from now on. Towerhobbies probably go out of bus
Dude don't cave!!!!

That is what they want.
Old 01-10-2015, 01:33 PM
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rhklenke
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Originally Posted by ledd4u View Post
Got a MIG-15 turbine, Spitfire all for sale. Did not renew AMA, I give up. Will fly rubber band planes from now on. Towerhobbies probably go out of bus
Seroiusly! Come on! None of this stuff is aimed at the AMA or modelers. Flying under AMA rules is *totally* "legal" even according to the FAA's "interpretation" and I fully expect it to continue to be. This action is aimed at the "drone" guys flying where ever and when ever they want to (and in stupid places).

If you want to get out of the hobby, that's your perogative, but this "sky is falling..." stuff is over the line.

Bob

ps. Among other things, the courts have yet to fully weight in on this. The NTSB ruling on the Pikering case is being appealed (and they have *deep* legal pockets), and the AMA has filed suit against the FAA "interpretation" of the provisions against FAA regulation of recreational modeling in the FAA re-authorization act.

Last edited by rhklenke; 01-10-2015 at 01:37 PM.
Old 01-10-2015, 02:25 PM
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Got a MIG-15 turbine, Spitfire all for sale.
Got a nice car I can buy as well?

I have heard the police are out on the highway enforcing the law there as well.
Obviously you won't be able to handle that invasion of your privacy & liberty either.

Enjoy the bus.

John.
Old 01-10-2015, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Krumpel View Post
The problem isn't the FCC or the police. The problem is IDIOTS. This past summer there was a local real estate agent flying his Phantom over the crowd at a Jimmy Buffet concert taking movies and crapping up the audience's listening experience with the whine of his quad. Would you want to pay good money to attend a music venue and have an IDIOT ruin it for you?

Now, don't get me wrong. I own and fly a Phantom but do so in a way that respects others safety.

Until there is another way to reign in the IDIOTS, the FCC will utilize whatever tools they find.
What does the FCC have to do with the NAS? Did I miss something, is the FCC going to ban radio frequencies used for RC?
Old 01-10-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Alvarez View Post
January 8–The proliferation of small, relatively inexpensive unmanned aircraft (UAS) presents the Federal Aviation Administration with a challenge in identifying people who don’t follow the rules of the air or who endanger the nation’s airspace. So, the agency is asking the law enforcement community for help.
The FAA released guidance to the law enforcement community explaining the legal framework for the agency’s oversight of aviation safety in the U.S., including UAS operations. The guidance describes how UAS and model aircraft can be operated legally, and the options for legal enforcement actions against unauthorized or unsafe UAS operators. The document also discusses the law enforcement community’s vital role in deterring, detecting and investigating unsafe operations.
State and local police are often in the best position to immediately investigate unauthorized UAS operations, and as appropriate, to stop them. The document explains how first responders and others can provide invaluable assistance to the FAA by:

  • Identifying potential witnesses and conducting initial interviews
  • Contacting the suspected operators of the UAS or model aircraft
  • Viewing and recording the location of the event
  • Collecting evidence
  • Identifying if the UAS operation was in a sensitive location, event or activity
  • Notifying one of the FAA’s Regional Operation Centers about the operation as soon as possible
The FAA’s goal is to promote voluntary compliance by educating individual UAS operators about how they can operate safely under current regulations and laws, but the guidance makes clear the agency’s authority to pursue legal enforcement action against persons who endanger the safety of the National Airspace System.
The guidance stresses that while the FAA exercises caution not to mix criminal law enforcement with agency administrative safety enforcements, the public is best served by coordinating and fostering mutual understanding and cooperation between governmental entities with law enforcement responsibilities.
> View the FAA’s law enforcement guidance
> More information on the FAA and UAS,
There's an old British expression that can be used regarding the FAA here ... "Poppycock!"

I have a few police officer friends who told me the climate in their department is to not even bother with people flying radio controlled aircraft UNLESS;
1) they are operating those planes near or over roads
2) if a neighbor calls to complain about noise or a dangerous condition (and the latter would be up to the cop to decide based on his observation)
(if you are operating safely and close to your property lines, the cop will most likely tell your neighbor you are doing nothing wrong and you are within your rights to continue with your activity)
3) trespassing on property (like a vacant lot) to conduct such r/c operation

Other than that, you can operate anything any way you want. So, the FAA really won't get far with their poppycock.
Old 01-10-2015, 04:18 PM
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Let me see if I can understand this correctly...If you possess billions of dollars, you can... build your own rocket, fly it into outer orbit and back, build a building as high as you like, fly as low as you like over farms, communities, or the like, all without worrying about the FAA...but...if you fly rc aircraft, you cannot...fly above 400ft...launch it into outer orbit...fly over farms, communities, or public spaces. And one has to ask yourself, "Why not"? Is not the sky above us, all of ours to enjoy? How dare we allow the government to dictate to us, as to how high we can fly our aircraft, without fighting back?! Do we live under a dictatorship, or Communist government?... Better stop them in their tracks, before we have no Rights left, because next thing you know, they'll be in our homes, going through our belongings, telling us that we can keep this, but not that! Think about it!
Old 01-10-2015, 05:21 PM
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It's about time! I'm glad the FAA got their act together and included local law enforcement in their efforts to rid us of the a-holes that can't obey simple safety rules. Maybe, instead of a flood of sightings and near misses, we will see a flood of arrests, fines and even imprisonments of the most dangerous fools. It will be great for the hobby, we can fly at our safe flying fields and not have to worry anymore about our image.

And, because of the AMA efforts to get the law written in our favor and their partnership with the FAA, we know which side of the law we are on, the good side for once.
Old 01-10-2015, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
It's about time! I'm glad the FAA got their act together and included local law enforcement in their efforts to rid us of the a-holes that can't obey simple safety rules. Maybe, instead of a flood of sightings and near misses, we will see a flood of arrests, fines and even imprisonments of the most dangerous fools. It will be great for the hobby, we can fly at our safe flying fields and not have to worry anymore about our image.

And, because of the AMA efforts to get the law written in our favor and their partnership with the FAA, we know which side of the law we are on, the good side for once.
FAA troll, if I've ever seen one.
Old 01-10-2015, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
FAA troll, if I've ever seen one.
Is that the best you got? LOL!
Old 01-10-2015, 06:00 PM
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porcia83
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re # 21

Nothing elevates the discussion like name calling.
Old 01-10-2015, 06:10 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
"FAA .... if I've ever seen one".
In another thread you put up a Trappy video and wondered when someone was going to get hurt, yet you post the same kinds of videos of you flying. Now, you seem to have an issue with another poster indicating he's o/k with the FAA fining people who fly recklessly and break the law. Why is it o/k for you to fly well over 400 feet, above people, homes, roads etc, but not Trappy?

Why would you have a problem with people getting fined for breaking the law?
Old 01-10-2015, 07:37 PM
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re #21:

Here's the rotten apple to spoil a (mostly) lucid conversation and posting of opinion.

In spite of a pinhead hatred of authority, I support the FAA and police in ANY effort to rid the hobby of morons and idiots.

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