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Will building actually make a come back?

Old 04-09-2015, 10:14 AM
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Randy M.
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Default Will building actually make a come back?

With the modeling world saturated with arfs, and the "so called" arf in the jet model industry getting to be more of a pain dealing with over seas companies, will the trend shift back to actuall building?? I have not and will not fork out a ton of cash only to hopefully get my plane months later. I don't go to buy a car, lay out a bunch of cash, and get my car months and months later. I think many are tired of the bs. I will only buy something if I can see it and go pick it up. I have bought several jets from individuals like that. any others feel the same??
Old 04-09-2015, 10:22 AM
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gunradd
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Randy I hope building comes back....
I enjoy building still and if you want to compete in scale competition the ARFS are just plain bad if you want to get static judged even if you paint the thing yourself. The outline of the Chinese arfs are just all wrong for the most part.

Really wish yellow aircraft was sticking around.

Also waiting 6 months for parts from Jetlegend gets VERY old!!! Make that 6 months and counting still don't have all the parts .
Old 04-09-2015, 10:52 AM
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A7Bldr
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Randy, I was recently excited to possibly order a Skymaster Aircraft until I saw the wait and freight cost. Now I'm looking at other options.
Jim
Old 04-09-2015, 11:08 AM
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DrScoles
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Unless you're single or retired, its hard to find the time to get something flying. The ARF's fill a great niche, just have to be aware of the quality pitfalls and choose your manufacturer accordingly.
Old 04-09-2015, 12:00 PM
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rhklenke
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Originally Posted by Randy M.;12019484[B
]With the modeling world saturated with arfs, and the "so called" arf in the jet model industry getting to be more of a pain dealing with over seas companies, will the trend shift back to actual building??[/B] I have not and will not fork out a ton of cash only to hopefully get my plane months later. I don't go to buy a car, lay out a bunch of cash, and get my car months and months later. I think many are tired of the bs. I will only buy something if I can see it and go pick it up. I have bought several jets from individuals like that. any others feel the same??
The answer, yes, it will (somewhat) - see the article by your's truly in the latest issue of Contrails...

There will always be a place for ARFs, even for me, but personally, I've grown somewhat tired of "assembling" ARFs and wanted to get back more to the art of creation. I also like to see (or bring) something different to the field that the ARF manufacturers have churned out.

Now if I suddenly run out of flyable jets, I'd certainly go the ARF route to get back in the air, but I doubt that I'll do another ARF outside of that possibility - I have a number of building projects lined up...

Bob

ps. Everyone should think about signing up for the JPO to help us in our efforts to keep jet modeling going strong and to get the latest issue of Contrails to see what your fellow jet modelers are up to...

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Old 04-09-2015, 12:10 PM
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Hey Randy funny you should bring this up, I was at daniels R/C the other day and ran into David Jackson and he was upset about the waits as well, I personally have had bad luck with two different companies myself. I like building, but I dont think these things will ever be built in the states again, it just cost to much to live here and small business cannot make any profit. I had mentioned to Mr Jackson we need people from the companies who back the products with their name like GJC, BVM, Chief to step up and talk to these companies. I think the only way it will ever change is if their sales drop.
Originally Posted by Randy M. View Post
With the modeling world saturated with arfs, and the "so called" arf in the jet model industry getting to be more of a pain dealing with over seas companies, will the trend shift back to actuall building?? I have not and will not fork out a ton of cash only to hopefully get my plane months later. I don't go to buy a car, lay out a bunch of cash, and get my car months and months later. I think many are tired of the bs. I will only buy something if I can see it and go pick it up. I have bought several jets from individuals like that. any others feel the same??
That being said if people would stop buying my winning lottery ticket I will deff bring the builds home! LOL

Last edited by FenderBean; 04-09-2015 at 12:18 PM.
Old 04-09-2015, 12:12 PM
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I think the answer is no...

the best models will still only be available as ARF, or almost ARF ... When you think what a top of the line model costs to prototype and tool up for, the price to the customer will reflect that. Very few modeler will pay top dollar for a kit over an ARF that costs only a fraction more to produce over a kit ..

Look at the cost of a Mibo a10 as an example ... how much is the kit ( its more of an arf really anyway ) and then how much the "more work done" package costs. ..

How many people would pay top $ for a BVM F4 when they can get a detailed, larger, painted ARF from Skymaster for a lot less ? some yes, but not enough to have kit manufacturers start developing new "kits" ... when is the last time you saw BVM put out a kit ? even they are more of a Chinese box pusher now ..


Voy
Old 04-09-2015, 12:22 PM
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invertmast
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Gotta agree with Woj on this one.. My F-14 i would love to offer as a kit, but at the complexity level of it, it'll never be able to compete with a skymaster as mine will likely be more expensive, so the only way I can even consider competing with that model is by basically offering them custom built to customer specs.


That said, I am currently designing a new sport jet that will either end up composite or semi-composite, maybe even both for those who want to balsa bash some wings and tail feathers.
Old 04-09-2015, 12:43 PM
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David Jackson
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Originally Posted by Randy M. View Post
With the modeling world saturated with arfs, and the "so called" arf in the jet model industry getting to be more of a pain dealing with over seas companies, will the trend shift back to actuall building?? I have not and will not fork out a ton of cash only to hopefully get my plane months later. I don't go to buy a car, lay out a bunch of cash, and get my car months and months later. I think many are tired of the bs. I will only buy something if I can see it and go pick it up. I have bought several jets from individuals like that. any others feel the same??
I am in total agreement with you on this. I would consider a delay of two weeks to complete and ship a plane to be acceptable, but 10+ weeks beyond the time you were told the plane would be ready is absolutely ridiculous. Personally, I don't plan to order any other models unless I can be given a guarantee that it will delivered on time. If not, I should be given an option of a full refund, or a 15% discount off the price of the model.

Last edited by David Jackson; 04-09-2015 at 01:07 PM.
Old 04-09-2015, 12:44 PM
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About the only reason people build today is for something that is not available as an ARF. I have gotten tired of going to the field with something everyone else has so I've built a couple of kits lately. How about a 50" Beech C-45 from Fly2build or a 87 and 70% size Turbinator from Laser Design. You won't see many of these at the field.

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Old 04-09-2015, 01:36 PM
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Andy Aldridge
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Philip Avonds still produces superb kits. Lots of work, but they all fly superbly as well. Service is second to none.
Old 04-09-2015, 01:49 PM
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gunradd
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Well I have 6 kids full time job and a wife. Spend time with all and still have some time left to build.

Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Unless you're single or retired, its hard to find the time to get something flying. The ARF's fill a great niche, just have to be aware of the quality pitfalls and choose your manufacturer accordingly.
Old 04-09-2015, 02:07 PM
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Building is still alive with some of us in Nashville . Randy is finishing a yellow f-18 and I am working on a Ziroli Panther. Scott flys his F-86 at WJM so there are still a few die hard builders around . Personally I enjoy the building process although at times I want to pull out what little hair I have left. But, from a cost stand point there is very little to be saved, in fact some times you can't build for what the ARF costs. ( Turbinator for example) but there is something about flying a model that you have truly built.
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:26 PM
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Terry Holston
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Nice looking Panther, do you have any pictures that are bigger? those come through as thumbnails..........LOL
Old 04-09-2015, 02:31 PM
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Granpooba
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Being an old time builder, I wanted to get back into building as I was tired of " assembling " ARF's.
I am presently in the final stages of a Balsa USA Eindecker 90 kit.
After getting back into building I can honestly say that I have found a new respect for ARF's and this Eindecker build will be my last " kit " !
Old 04-09-2015, 03:07 PM
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Well guys I have to stick my nose in hear I have 2 Barf's, oh I mean Arf's both of witch leave a lot to be desired, Both had missing bits, and being an OLD builder I just make what I needed. Now to kits, over the last 70+ years of building, in some cases they also leave a lot to be desired, particularly if you are doing a scale bird.
So as I see it you pick your bed and just lay in it and injoy.

Cheers Bob T
Old 04-09-2015, 03:08 PM
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+1 for Phillip Avonds
Old 04-09-2015, 03:29 PM
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For the sport flyer- and maybe this doesn't apply as much to jets, I see a void created as ARFs have taken down staple suppliers of kits so that what has emerged is kit building but on a different kind of scale of supply as before but the niche is there. A really neat and exciting variation of that is laser cut short kits and the proliferation recently of all the RCM plans.

Time is an interesting debate. I got out of the hobby when I got married, thought I'd never have time again until I retired until my kids found my planes in the attic. Guess what? All the sudden I have gobs of time and it's more fun now with my sons involved than it ever was before. We bought some four star 40's and set up shop for building short kits after we run those into the ground. I really enjoy building AND I enjoy ARFs and I enjoy collecting glow engines so there really is more to the hobby than just getting into the air.
Old 04-09-2015, 03:48 PM
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Will building actually make a come back? No.

I can see some people with building skills returning to building as they reach retirement & looking for something
to fill in the time and/or an excuse to hide from the wife who is suddenly in their face 24/7, but for others - no.

Turbines arrived in the middle of the ARF revolution & most guys getting into jets don't know any other way. Many
jet flyers couldn't stick their fingers together with CA, let alone bits of wood. You would be surprised how many 'flyers'
pay someone else to assemble ARF's, one clown in my club wanted one of the experienced jet guys to buy, build, store,
maintain & deliver a jet to the field fuelled up & ready to fly then take it home again & service it ready for the next 'session'.
The proud owner's total involvement was just providing the cash. These wannabes just want to boast to their modelling
friends - 'yeah, I fly a jet!'

Even if the economy turns sour & people find themselves with less disposable income building a jet probably costs more than
buying an ARF anyway and the engines & quality accessories still cost a heap so no come back there to save money.

Why will people build? Because they enjoy it & REALLY want to. There is no other reason.

John.
Old 04-09-2015, 04:34 PM
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like i always say. Scratch builders make their own destiny . next project is a ziroli spitfire...
Old 04-09-2015, 04:54 PM
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Voy and company has it right, the answer is an emphatic NO.

While there are still die hard craftsman (like Thomas) who can build from scratch, even the old school kitset bashers like myself are getting thinner on the ground.
Part of the reason is because there are very few kits, or short kits, available any more.. BVM were one of the few manufacturers that have offered and supported kit builders, but it is obvious that even they are moving away from kit sets and adding more PNP. Which is where the market lies..

Personally I think it is a real shame. There is a great amount satisfaction in having some hands-on input into the creation of your model, past bolting in a few components. Plus, there are a lot of skills that can be learnt building model planes. Skills that transfer into real life.

And, as John points out, building, is actually quite enjoyable.

Roger
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:52 PM
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I LOVE building, especially from plans. Now in the final stage of completing a Zirolli PT-17 and just started a WETech Goshawk (short kit by limeybob...good guy). Will put a G45 in the Goshawk.
Old 04-09-2015, 07:29 PM
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This 2 Panthers was totally scratch buil from blown Zirolli plans to 1:4 scale .
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE=SECRET AGENT;12019662]+1 for Phillip Avonds[/QUOTE]

Really? Sent him an email Monday. Still waiting on an answer.
Old 04-09-2015, 09:46 PM
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Default Using your hands so they don't become flippers

Will building make a comeback?
Will building ever completely go away?
My answer, no to both questions.
Watch the animated movie, "Wally."
You can't build model airplanes when your arms turn into flippers and the only muscle mass remaining is from holding a 48oz Big Gulp and the television remote.
You can't build your pride and joy for anywhere near what that ARF costs, but that ARF hopefully isn't your pride and joy, if it is, you have never build something really unique and special.
Are you a builder, are you a flyer, are you both? Are you retired, tired, or lazy? There is something for everyone and no way is the right way.
Even the village idiot has his followers.
Get rid of the television.
Exercise your body. Build airplanes and exercise your mind.
Have fun but, heaven sake do something!
You are gonna be dead a long time. Make it meaningful, right here and right now.
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