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electric vereses air retracts.?

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electric vereses air retracts.?

Old 02-05-2016, 05:53 PM
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emilsanto
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Default electric vereses air retracts.?

looking at retracts from dreamworks. I was looking at the elec. and air systems. the electric seem pretty easy on set up.
what's the down side if any on the 2 types
thanks
Old 02-05-2016, 06:12 PM
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ltc
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Generally, an electric set will be heavier than an air system,,primarily due to the difference in weight between a dedicated retract battery vs an air tank.
Old 02-05-2016, 06:31 PM
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BarracudaHockey
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I have electric in a couple of my warbirds, I use dual packs for the planes with a power safe receiver and power the retracts from the same packs. Over current protection will shut them down in the event of a hang up.

There's no valves, fittings, or airlines to leak, to compressor to lug around and not preflight item to pump up and check pressure.

I'd never go back to air personally
Old 02-05-2016, 07:04 PM
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skyracer32738
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emil
I like te dreamwokrs electric gear ..for one Todd stands by his stuff with great customer satisfaction and repair turnaound time
we fly expensive turbine aircraft and the last thing you want is your gear not to come down...
Larry the Cougar Guy
Old 02-05-2016, 08:52 PM
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number27
 
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electric all the way for reliability. never had a set (electron) never come down in 3 years. seen many air not come down or partially down. always hurts with air.
Old 02-05-2016, 09:33 PM
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Depends, a good air system can be just as reliable if maintained properly. I was convinced Electric would be far better, but after seeing a few pilots with them have issues as well I think it comes down to personal choice.
Old 02-05-2016, 10:21 PM
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I've never had a problem with air I've been using air for the last 15years I have a set of electron in my F18 the only reason I put them in is because of the quality of FBjets retracts but as mackeyjones said all about maintained properly plus electric retracts are heavier than an air system and end of the day it comes down to your choice


Damo
Old 02-05-2016, 10:37 PM
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I have a set of Dreamworks electric retracts and brakes in my Ultra Flash. They have been reliable for me. I've been so happy with them that I ordered electric retracts for my CARF Viper Jet.
Old 02-06-2016, 04:59 AM
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CraigG
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
Generally, an electric set will be heavier than an air system,,primarily due to the difference in weight between a dedicated retract battery vs an air tank.
You're forgetting the weight of the retract valve/servo needed for an air system. When I switched over the air system on my Futura to electric from Down and Locked the overall weight went down a fraction. This using a 2S 1300mAh dedicated battery for the retracts. Some guys even save that weight by tapping into one of the rx or ECU batteries to power electric retracts.

I have had nothing but success with my electric retracts.

Craig
Old 02-06-2016, 05:00 AM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Any system needs maintaining, I'd say from observation the electric sets will require more. but like everything its not easy to stamp an answer covering different conditions, flying site grit, temperature etc.
BUT, my issue with electric is that if it locks mid way, it will destroy the unit and possibly damage the airframe if you have to land like that. Again many permutations, An air system that loses its air with the gear up, the aircraft stays clean and can be belly landed. If the gear unlocks and 'hangs' again on a belly landing it will pivot up back into the airframe on touch down.
Electric (from what I have observed) starts to come down and jams. You then have 3 arm/leavers that on touch down will rip the unit/actuator apart, destroying several hundred $ of retract units. The 'fixed' leg on touch down is more likely to swing/cartwheel the airframe causing damage.

I don't get problems with my air system models and observing the down side of electric, see no reason to change at this stage. I love the mini units like in the Habu 32X and Mini Xcalibur that seem to be reliable (probably due to lower tolerances allowing for more grime before they seize)
Its a personal choice, if you have other air equipped models you are carrying the pump anyway. For sure manufacturers have learnt from the customer R&D that has been done for them, I still think there is more work to be done...

Dw
Old 02-06-2016, 05:00 AM
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crazy RCU!
Old 02-06-2016, 06:23 AM
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Most electrics bind they shut down, they dont tear up anything or kill a battery
Old 02-06-2016, 07:18 AM
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Electrics are pretty sweet and easy to use. I did away air years ago.
I'm sure down the road they will get even better, cheaper and more scale options will be available.
Mike
Old 02-06-2016, 07:42 AM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Most electrics bind they shut down, they dont tear up anything or kill a battery
That's not what I said. Its like you say, they shut down mid way, its using the leg as a lever that tears things up!

Dave
Old 02-06-2016, 08:02 AM
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Ahhhh.....my bad!!

I can see that point.


Edit: In fairness, I broke my own rule of posting before the 2nd cuppa

Last edited by BarracudaHockey; 02-06-2016 at 08:08 AM.
Old 02-06-2016, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere View Post
Electric (from what I have observed) starts to come down and jams. You then have 3 arm/leavers that on touch down will rip the unit/actuator apart, destroying several hundred $ of retract units. The 'fixed' leg on touch down is more likely to swing/cartwheel the airframe causing damage.
Dw
This is not correct, looks that your experience in electric retracts is very limited. If one of the legs in a electric become stuck at mid extension, the controller stop this single leg to protect the motor and battery, not all 3, the other 2 extend normally. Then you have the opportunity to select gear up again to retract all 3 and do a belly landing, or to cycle the gear many many times at diferent G loads to see if it unstuck.

BTW, I see your point in that a mid retracted electric gear probabilly will create more damage than an air one, but from my experience, a gear stuck partially deployed is very unlikely, and in this case it can be retracted again. Electric motor failures happen at endpoints where they see the peak load.

Another plus on elèctrics is that usually the frames are much more stronger than the air ones.

Gaspar
Old 02-06-2016, 09:01 AM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Gaspar

OK, I was not thinking totally clear also in posting. Yes, its unlikely that all three would jam. Those that I have seen only one. Sometimes the unit might allow retraction again and then like you say a gear up landing like air can happen.
Its the when the leg jams part way and cannot be retracted, then the big leverage either pulls the threaded rod from the actuator, bends the threaded rod or the cross slide is broken. Frames are not normally the problem.
The actuator is the expensive part in the gear.

Like everything there are variables, like you say I don't have experience in high end electric gear, I was waiting for more of the 'bugs' to be sorted before I look at using and then selling them.
Old 02-06-2016, 09:07 AM
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They make sequencing a whole lot easier too.

My P-51 gear came with a programming box, tell it that it had a tail wheel, tell it that there were main gear door servos and poof, it does all the work setting up the door sequence
Old 02-06-2016, 09:29 AM
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Dave, I see your point about a gear getting stuck mid-cycle. Hopefully that's the exception and not the rule. I've had almost zero issues with air and have no desire to convert my pneumatic powered planes. However, moving forward I doubt I'll buy another set of pneumatic gear for future airframes if I am given a choice. The comvenience and simplicity of electric have won me over.

Last edited by dubd; 02-07-2016 at 07:47 AM.
Old 02-06-2016, 06:30 PM
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George
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I have only used the DW electric gear since switching and have never had one NOT come down or go up. If installed correctly and not bent due to a botched landing, they just work. Before the Electrons and Pro-Links, D&L were the only game in town for larger aircraft; and I know they had a lot of "teething" problems that gave electric gear their not-so-good reputation.

As far as maintenance, I have done zero to the gear itself, but the electric brakes do require periodic maintenance as do the pneumatic brakes, so no extra work above air.

Of those that posted seeing/experiencing "problems" above, I'd like to know which product/s they were as I can only guess. Also, I have not used the e-flight stuff, but if that's the basis for some of the electric experience, then I don't think it can be used as being indicative of all electric gear.

Unless there is absolutely no way to use electrician a specific application, I'll never look back.
Old 02-06-2016, 06:39 PM
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I'm dealing with one of the easiest and simplest air setups I've seen and it's 100% pain in the a** compared to electric.

You purchase a 20 dollar high amp multi volt bec for big etracts so you don't have to run them through the rx and you're done

Gemini Hobbies, RC Landers and a couple of other make 1/2 inch pin electric retracts that are pretty robust and get the job done.... and cost less than 150usd a set retail.

Will never even think about doing anything with air if I could start it all over again.

RC Lander and FW also make amp out linear actuators so the gear doors can be electric too...

Assan makes a 3 channel (2 door 1 gear) digital display sequencer just in case you don't want to use a radio for complicated door sequences for 12 bucks from HK.

Just wish > than 1/2 inch pin was available

Last edited by erh7771; 02-06-2016 at 06:57 PM.
Old 02-06-2016, 07:03 PM
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Doesn't really matter whether one likes Electric or Air Retracts Even Spring Loaded to Down ... It just like the full scale guys say about those that fly retractables ...
"
There those that have and those that will .. have a gear up landing".

Last edited by HoundDog; 02-06-2016 at 07:50 PM.
Old 02-07-2016, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Unless there is absolutely no way to use electrician a specific application, I'll never look back.
One other thing I like about electrics....they really look cool/scale going up and down. I go out of my way every flight positioning my gear check pass so I can watch them extend. Yes, I'm easily entertained but I've also spent a lot of time messing with restrictors and such on air systems trying to get consistent scale looking operation without much success.

Craig
Old 02-07-2016, 04:14 AM
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Weight and cost on electric is arround + 25%
(Measured with 16 g servo and 3 way Behotec valve)
Old 02-07-2016, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by B.S. View Post
Weight and cost on electric is arround + 25%
(Measured with 16 g servo and 3 way Behotec valve)
There are no valves, valve servos, valve connections or hoses with big etracts... maybe a control module depending on the maker... that's a half ounce if that

With most 1/2inch pin etracts its the etract, which weighs the same as the air retract, and servo wires or extensions.

Now Robart makes an amp out electric conversion kits for a lot of current air retracts... 200 dollars with control module which is convenient cause the rx\tx doesn't need to be on to work the retracts up or down.

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