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18MZ and telemetry for KingTech 140 twins....

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18MZ and telemetry for KingTech 140 twins....

Old 03-11-2016, 11:43 AM
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DrScoles
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Default 18MZ and telemetry for KingTech 140 twins....

I acquired a JL Yak 130 with KT 140's. I don't care about a ton of information from telemetry, just want one thing... engine out alarm. I have telemetry for my jet cat turbines and it works fine. No idea how to set up twins with the xicoy ECU and whats out there.

Thanks, Mike
Old 03-11-2016, 04:17 PM
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Len
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Hi Mike,
I use both the Xicoy telemetry unit and also their FC-1 Flight computer in different aircraft on the 18MZ. Both will do what you need, but the telemetry unit is less expensive and will do exactly what you need, even though Futaba does not have the Xicoy data inside its own software (like it does for JetCat). The telemetry unit gives you all the data that the FADEC has, plus a fuel gauge that counts down as the pump uses current/voltage. For your request I would just use the telemetry unit's rpm and set an 18MZ alarm at an rpm well below idle, say about 5k rpm lower I'd guess. You could also set an EGT alarm too if you wanted. Once you get that set up try the fuel gauge...it's awesome!

If you need any other info, just ask...
Aloha,
Len
Old 03-12-2016, 04:10 AM
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bidrseed2
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Hi Len,
ive a Skymaster a10 with two Merlin vt80 engines and xicoy telemetry.

ive managed to get an alarm as you described when the rpm drops, but found as I couldn't then silence the alarm I think I'd find it distracting if I had an engine failure for real.

Did you just accept this or have you find some way to silence it?
Old 03-12-2016, 07:38 AM
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Do you just Y the two sensors into the sbus2 port on one of the RX's? Afraid it will recognize both as the same thing and won't be able to differentiate between the two. I'm using powerbox SRS and two 7008 rx's. I have one of the xicoy telemetry sensors, played hell getting it to be recognized by the 18z. Gotta spend more time on it...
Old 03-12-2016, 09:45 AM
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Len
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Hi Mike, Just building a Tomcat, so dual engines is something I have yet to attempt, but each sensor has a unique ID so it should work. Yes the sensors just Y into the Sbus2 port. The Xicoy units don't need all that registration stuff as they mimic only rpm and temperature which are already installed by Futaba. You just need to reassign the slot numbers to the second engine telemetry so they don't 'argue', then assign either rpm or temp to those slots in the Tx. It should have data then.

One trick I was taught is to connect the pump cables to the opposite ECU's if you have a twin engine plane that yaws badly on a single flameout. That way the still running engine's pump is shut down by the feedback from the flamed out engine. This does cause a dead stick, but sometimes that is more desirable than any thrust, even idle thrust, on one engine alone.
Len
Old 03-12-2016, 09:50 AM
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bidrseed2: I don't actually use the alarms so no I haven't found a way to the Futaba Tx's to go silent after an alarm, but an interesting problem... I used an alarm once for GPS speed just to test them and of course it started going off as soon as the plane was turned on. That was enough to get me to stop using alarms at all. I find them to be a pain and a total distraction while flying, but some fellows love them!
Old 03-12-2016, 10:15 AM
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More confusion. I ordered this one quite a while ago. On dreamworks site, it shows a pic of the sensor saying "telemetry1" Is there any difference between the two? The Yak appears to fly very well on one turbine, the Rusjet Yak flew half its routine at jet world masters with one turbine... so I figure it will be OK. Just want to know when it happens ;-)
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:05 AM
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Hi,
Just some clarifications:

On 18MZ you can have as many engines as you want, depending on the paràmetres of each engine you want to see, and other sensors if exist. If no other sensors in the system, and displaying 3 parameters each engine (say RPM, fuel and EGT), you could have 10 engines... The trick is to connect all the telemetry adapters in parallel to the SBUS2 port (trough “Y” leads) and the assign the unique slots for each parameter.


So, if you want to have the RPM, EGT, Pump voltage and Fuel of each engine, then set on the telemetry adapter of first engine:

Slot2: RPM
Slot4: EGT
Slot6: Pump Voltage
Slot8: Fuel.

And in the adapter of the second engine:

Slot3: RPM
Slot5: EGT
Slot7: Pump Voltage
Slot9: Fuel

Then, on “Sensors” on the 18MZ, assign the Slot2 and Slot 3 to RPM sensor type, and all others to “temperature”. Then you can change the labels to a understandable name.

If you set the slots as described, (even numbers to engine 1, odd numbers to engine 2) it prevents confusion to know to which engine the parameter belong,but you can assign the numbers as you like better, depending on how you want them to be displayed on the screen on the TX (alternate, grouped, left/right,etc). The only restriction is that the slots should be used only in one parameter, if you set the RPM of both engines at slot 3, both adapters will use same slot, so you will have erratic readings on the screen.

Regarding the models, both are fine. “Telemetry1” is compatible with Jeti,Multiplex and Futaba. “Telemetry2” add Graupner Hott to the list, and Telemetry3 add JR DMSS. But both are the same if used in Futaba, no differences.

Gaspar

Last edited by Gaspar; 03-12-2016 at 11:08 AM.
Old 03-12-2016, 11:11 AM
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Perfect Gaspar, thanks to you and Len for making this clear :-)
Old 03-12-2016, 01:18 PM
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Len
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Currently Gaspar is on version 2.1 according to the manual. Having never used two in one plane I have never bothered to ascertain what version mine are. The one I have here is marked as in the picture you posted "Telemetry 2". For the price I'd order another one, or ask Gaspar what the differences are. He is VERY responsive to inquiries by the way.
Old 03-12-2016, 02:49 PM
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Rafale Sport
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Originally Posted by bidrseed2 View Post
Hi Len,
ive a Skymaster a10 with two Merlin vt80 engines and xicoy telemetry.

ive managed to get an alarm as you described when the rpm drops, but found as I couldn't then silence the alarm I think I'd find it distracting if I had an engine failure for real.

Did you just accept this or have you find some way to silence it?
The new T18 software version 2.6.1 offers the possibility to switch on/off the alarm from the telemetry. Did not try yet but will do soon,

http://downloads.hobbico.com/softwar...2.6(E)_WEB.pdf
Old 03-13-2016, 09:23 AM
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Zeeb
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
One trick I was taught is to connect the pump cables to the opposite ECU's if you have a twin engine plane that yaws badly on a single flameout. That way the still running engine's pump is shut down by the feedback from the flamed out engine. This does cause a dead stick, but sometimes that is more desirable than any thrust, even idle thrust, on one engine alone.
Len
That'd be kind of tough to do with the new engines have the pumps inside the engine case like the JetCat RXi's and KingTech "G" series wouldn't it?

I've not tried to fly my TomCat yet, but putting the JetCat RXi engines in it created a bit of an issue with the fuel supply. Since the pumps are much better at pressurizing than suction and the fuel inlet size on the engine is still 4mm, you 'gotta do some monkey business with the fuel line diameters and adapting back and forth between the 4mm lines on the CAT's, tank outlets and engine inputs.

John Redmond will tell you that he's run these 180RXi's on the bench with a 20" section of 4mm line feeding the thing with no problems but being an ex-firefighter and used to working with hydraulics, I'm still a bit nervous about the setup but it should work fine.

Point being; a remote fuel pump as the engines all used to have, I think would be a better setup on certain models like the TomCat where the fuel runs quite a little journey on it's way from the tanks to the engines.

Oh yeah, back to the reason I read this thread in the first place; I wasn't planning on doing any telemetry stuff as I didn't care for all the monkey motion/parts required to "maybe" make it work on a twin. But with Gaspar's input I'm going to look into setting something up on my TomCat with my 18MZ radio.

Last edited by Zeeb; 03-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
Old 03-13-2016, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
One trick I was taught is to connect the pump cables to the opposite ECU's if you have a twin engine plane that yaws badly on a single flameout. That way the still running engine's pump is shut down by the feedback from the flamed out engine. This does cause a dead stick, but sometimes that is more desirable than any thrust, even idle thrust, on one engine alone.
Len

This is not correct, what we did was to cross conecting the fuel valves, not the pumps. And this was in the gas start engines, with kero start engines the startup could be really interesting with cross Connected valves.

Gaspar
Old 03-14-2016, 09:37 AM
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Len
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Yes that's right Gaspar, it was the solenoids that were cross connected not the pumps, sorry. I'd guess that Kero start systems would be a real nightmare on crossed fuel valves if one engine were to start slowly. Still, as Zeeb says that's not going to work with today's 'pumps and valves in the engines' situation, at least not very easily. Like I said, I've never flown a twin yet, just working on my Tomcat now. Fortunately with today's telemetry we need not worry about any of this...

Len
Old 03-15-2016, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rafale Sport View Post
The new T18 software version 2.6.1 offers the possibility to switch on/off the alarm from the telemetry. Did not try yet but will do soon,

http://downloads.hobbico.com/softwar...2.6(E)_WEB.pdf
WOW! An alarm mute button! Can't wait to try it
Old 03-16-2016, 06:19 AM
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Frustrating, isn't it. After years of several of us making many suggestions for cool telemetry features to make it much more useful for actual flying, we get this. The dumbest possible thing. Well at least we got that...

Some of the third party guys have actually come up with some clever ways of handling the issue of telemetry alarms that are better handled by getting "armed" (e.g. low airspeed for a stall alarm, low turbine temperature for a flameout alarm) so they don't blare away while starting and taxiing .. or things that need to go off, get acknowledged and then shut off (e.g. fuel capacity). rcsense.com is one example as is Carsten's ASSI system where they worked around the Futaba limits. I sure wish someone from Futaba would get interested in this in a serious way. Isn't this what Team Futaba is for .. to advocate for the actual needs of flyers???

Dave
Old 03-16-2016, 06:32 AM
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Cool link Dave, thanks. I was a futaba team pilot for several years. I don't recall them ever asking our input on software stuff. Maybe a select few??? I need to figure this out soon, this plane will be ready minus programming in the next few weeks :-)
Old 03-16-2016, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Cool link Dave, thanks. I was a futaba team pilot for several years. I don't recall them ever asking our input on software stuff. Maybe a select few??? I need to figure this out soon, this plane will be ready minus programming in the next few weeks :-)
Hey I'm curious; did you ever get your transport/driveway issue resolved?
Old 03-16-2016, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Hey I'm curious; did you ever get your transport/driveway issue resolved?
Sure did..... ;-)
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Sure did..... ;-)
Alright! That's exactly what you wanted isn't it?
Old 03-17-2016, 07:03 AM
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Yeah, pain in the ass to find. Ended up getting it from a dealer in Chicago. Finding one thats not white and has the back seats is tough. Absolutely love it though, wife can't stand it, says it looks like a delivery vehicle in our driveway. It's getting painted matte black soon ;-)

Bought the 1" steel tubing to make a big rack to hold planes, just haven't had the time to get started on it.
Old 05-19-2016, 04:48 PM
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When I plug the sensor into my Sbus2 port and the other end into the ECU I don't see anything popup on my sensor screen in my 18SZ. Am I doing something wrong. I see the green light flashing on the sensor but not the red light.
Old 05-22-2016, 07:52 AM
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Mike, FYI - you should be able to Y my MDT with your telemetry unit together.
Old 04-06-2017, 12:04 AM
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Mike, did you ever find a solution for twin kingtech telemetries?
i do have an available solution now.
Old 04-06-2017, 05:41 AM
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I haven't tried it yet, I thought the stuff you sent would work fine with the 1-14, 15-30 ports??

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