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Not political, an economic question re: our hobby

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Not political, an economic question re: our hobby

Old 11-09-2016, 12:49 PM
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David Searles
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Default Not political, an economic question re: our hobby

Most of the products we buy in this hobby are made in China, imported here. If Trump follows thru with his plan to attach a 35% tariff on Chinese imports, what effect will it have on your spending? SkyMaster kits 35% higher. JR, Spectrum, Futaba radio gear 35% higher.

Can an American company now produce jet related turbine products etc that would be cost competitive with say, KingTech turbines priced 35% higher?

Would you buy American made kits if price competitive with higher SkyMaster prices?

David S

My bad, further review indicates the correct number is 45%. Don't believe me, Google it.

Last edited by David Searles; 11-09-2016 at 01:03 PM.
Old 11-09-2016, 01:56 PM
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Vincent
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Hi David that's an easy one...they can lower their prices by 45% actually president Reagan did that in 1983 he imposed a 49% tariff on motorcycles imported from Japan and it saved Harley Davidson
Vin...

Last edited by Vincent; 11-09-2016 at 02:02 PM.
Old 11-09-2016, 03:41 PM
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I don't think we would ever see that kind of increase in goods. 10-20...maybe. Our trade deals suck, they need to be more balanced. I would gladly pay more for a US made plane...we do with BVM, they just don't have all the cool ones we want. If the Chinese kits get a little more expensive, its gonna push a handful of people away from being able to get them... Thats the way it goes, this is big picture stuff that needs to change.
Old 11-09-2016, 04:16 PM
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I would always buy American no matter the price.....if it is available. I sell and service Chinese scooters because their are no U.S. manufacturers. If there were, I would be buying from them.
Old 11-09-2016, 04:46 PM
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It is not just the US, every country has sacrificed their manufacturing because consumers want cheaper stuff. Whether it is good or bad people keep buying It. China filled the gap and now it is too late. If any country thinks you can just slap huge tariffs on imports in an attempt to revive manufacturing they will find out it is not going to happen. If manufacturing was going to start again in Aus or the US or any other country it would be with robots and so how is that helping the local economy?

With locally produced goods at higher prices that will just create higher inflation and that will be more of an issue that imports. You can,look up the details of it all, just takes some time.

Regards,
Old 11-09-2016, 05:18 PM
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David Searles
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Economically speaking, I think this hobby (if tariffs are imposed) is in serious trouble. How many guys can afford to spend $4,300 for a KT210 that costs $2,990 now? Or pay $7,300 for a SM kit that costs $5k now.

An industry with a Single source supplier, which this hobby has essentially become, is doomed when those products costs are increased 25-45%.

Better place your orders now. 2017-18 could be verrrry interesting.
Old 11-09-2016, 05:26 PM
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rcjetsaok
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I think Trump is an airplane kinda guy... Look at his operation.. I think we just need to talk to him about it and see if he'll cut us some slack...

D
Old 11-09-2016, 05:47 PM
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When tariffs are placed on goods they are placed on categories of goods. Typically you select a category or basket of goods to place a tariff on in hopes that your local economy will fill the need. Congress will not place a blanket tariff on everything from China. That would kill our economy as lots of things are sold here from there. Think Walmart and many others. I think our hobby will be left out of the equation as not that much is sold here. It's a very very small industry.

The comment about robots is very valid. I see that happening in the fast food industry because if the 15 an hour demand. Many countries including China already use robots in the fast food industry

just my .02

Scott
Old 11-09-2016, 05:50 PM
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The vast majority of consumer products in the USA comes from China so putting a tariff on their products will kill the economy plane and simple.
Old 11-09-2016, 05:55 PM
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There is not going to be a tariff war as no country ever wins that. The jobs lost were going to get lost anyway it just happened quicker because of China.

The main point to remember is yrs ago made in Japan was all crap stuff. Then it got better and better, but with that came a new middle class and then it was not cheap to buy made in Japan stuff anymore.

China is going down the same route, cheap stuff at first with lead paint, now it is iphones and all the rest. What is happening people have more money and things are getting more expensive even in China. As is what they produce.

People say China manipulates their currency to keep everything running along and all the rest of the world manipulates their interest rates to keep everything running along so basically we are all on the same train :-)

Regards,
Old 11-09-2016, 05:58 PM
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David Searles
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Originally Posted by csandt051196 View Post
When tariffs are placed on goods they are placed on categories of goods. Typically you select a category or basket of goods to place a tariff on in hopes that your local economy will fill the need. Congress will not place a blanket tariff on everything from China. That would kill our economy as lots of things are sold here from there. Think Walmart and many others. I think our hobby will be left out of the equation as not that much is sold here. It's a very very small industry.

The comment about robots is very valid. I see that happening in the fast food industry because if the 15 an hour demand. Many countries including China already use robots in the fast food industry

just my .02

Scott
The problem is, which category do we fall in. We are a very very small part, of a much larger category, I would presume.

President elect Trump doesn't need Congress for this one. Falls directly under Presidential powers.

Walmart is one of the major contributors to our trade imbalance with China.
Old 11-09-2016, 06:03 PM
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As above... it will kill the economy.

BUT.......

I personally think some of the Chinese kits are getting out of control. The new Fomites are $1000 !! And most of the "Good" composite models are Chinese.

As far as engines... yes... KingTech may be in trouble, but most of the others come from other parts of the world. But... then again.. we can just buy them out of the UK, and pay a normal price. (Just a little more in shipping)

Last edited by Dr Honda; 11-10-2016 at 09:08 AM.
Old 11-09-2016, 06:47 PM
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I thought KingTech was made in Taiwan.
Old 11-09-2016, 06:54 PM
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David Searles
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Tony,

Please, don't want this to devolve into a political argument. Thread intent is re: our hobby only.

Thanks.

David S
Old 11-09-2016, 06:54 PM
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Would you buy American made kits if price competitive with higher SkyMaster prices?
YES. In fact, I consider it my civic duty to actively seek out US or European goods (in that order) and pay a PREMIUM for those goods over Chinese merchandise. Ex: I just bought roughly $1000 in new hand tools for the garage and the bulk of it is made in the USA. It took some research, time, and extra $, but its worth the peace of mind to me.

If we don't patronize and defend US manufacturers and the related jobs they provide then there will be no manufacturers to defend. Your children and their children will suffer the consequences at an exponential rate over time.
Old 11-09-2016, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by highhorse View Post
YES. In fact, I consider it my civic duty to actively seek out US or European goods (in that order) and pay a PREMIUM for those goods over Chinese merchandise. Ex: I just bought roughly $1000 in new hand tools for the garage and the bulk of it is made in the USA. It took some research, time, and extra $, but its worth the peace of mind to me.

If we don't patronize and defend US manufacturers and the related jobs they provide then there will be no manufacturers to defend. Your children and their children will suffer the consequences at an exponential rate over time.
I've always wished to be able to buy a turbine made and serviced here in the USA. The engineering knowledge is obviously here. The problem has always been the inability to compete with lower mfg pricing costs from overseas.

This hobby lost all of it's US mfg years ago. When I started in R/C, Kraft was the premier radio mfg. No more.

David S
Old 11-09-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jofunk View Post
I thought KingTech was made in Taiwan.
You are Correct. US had a 12 billion dollar trade deficit with Taiwan according to most recent numbers. Somehow I don't think Trump will care about the China, Taiwan difference.. TPP is dead on arrival.
Old 11-09-2016, 07:28 PM
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We did have US based Turbine manufacturers...AMT USA, RAM and a couple of others can't remember the names at the moment..SWB maybe. They all went under as people bought other turbines from other sources. The other problem is our manufactures did not advance there products like other companies did.
Old 11-09-2016, 08:34 PM
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In the early days there were US turbine guys as mentioned above, issue was the market was not yet deep enough in terms of volume and they were only turbine manufacturers so no other revenue streams to help prop them up in the early days. Jetcat was a side business and more of a hobby at the beginning. All the issues they had over the years was not affecting their initial core business which from memory was medical instruments and therefore their cash flow.

AMT NL pulled it off just by making a fantastic product that has always been sold at a premium and they just keep ticking over, low volume and they killed it. The problem is also the hobby, everyone is continually wanting cheaper and cheaper turbines and a high majority believes they should have them. I know i am going to start something but foamy's with turbines in them???

The old man out SWB make very expensive turbines and they only had a very small amount sold into the hobby side, most went to research and mil.

Regards,
Old 11-09-2016, 11:44 PM
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The Chinese devalued their currency starting in the 80's and that gave them the largest part of their price advantage. I would buy and did buy a US made turbine, A Ram 1000. It was a great engine. I was very sorry when they went away. I would love for a new US based model aircraft company to come online with the same type products as Skymaster etc.
Old 11-10-2016, 12:15 AM
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No china bashing please. They also import as well and are real animal lovers. Apart from our rhino horn they also love little baby elephants.
http://travel.iafrica.com/bulletinboard/1039643.html
Next is our cute little Dolphins off the west coast.
Adorable!
They also just love my wife's cloth designs. No sooner we have them in shops and before you know it they paid her the ultimate compliment of copying them exactly.
I have been toying with the idea of returning the compliment with some well made jet kits.
Old 11-10-2016, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbotronic View Post
No china bashing please. They also import as well and are real animal lovers. Apart from our rhino horn they also love little baby elephants.
http://travel.iafrica.com/bulletinboard/1039643.html
Next is our cute little Dolphins off the west coast.
Adorable!
They also just love my wife's cloth designs. No sooner we have them in shops and before you know it they paid her the ultimate compliment of copying them exactly.
I have been toying with the idea of returning the compliment with some well made jet kits.

Like your Beard turbine, André?

Jan
Old 11-10-2016, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
Like your Beard turbine, André?

Jan
Not with a currency jumping around more than 50%.....
My new design does 3 ton thrust in a KJ size combustor sized can.
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:41 AM
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I really wish I could buy cheap Chinese ARFs, put an american brand label on them, and sell them at 40% higher markup.

Oh crap, someone stole my idea!
Old 11-10-2016, 04:58 AM
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CESSNA 421
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I hope Trump imposes a 100% tax on imported goods, this may stimulate new products that say "MADE IN AMERICA" instead of China, Japan or any other country that has taken American jobs.

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