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weight limit in USA for jets....

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weight limit in USA for jets....

Old 10-27-2017, 12:37 PM
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Racerbuilder
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Default weight limit in USA for jets....

Hello all Jet flyers,

i try to find out what is the limit on RC-Jets in the countrys arround the world. In the past, jets getting bigger and bigger... so I try to find out where it ends...

and yes, we produce Jets as well... and we produce in Germany... so here is the start:

Germany: 25 KG or 55,11 lbs Wet.. that means all in.... Kerosene and also Smokeoil then everyone can fly this on a airfield wich is alowed fly 25 kg. Plane and pilot need no license.

When the plane is over 25Kg up to 150Kg you can get it proved and you need a licence to fly, also a airfield wich is alowed to fly planes up to 150 Kg..

So I am interested what is alowed in other countrys... go ahead... tell me what is the law and rules...

Why I am asking? I want to prpduce some real big planes and I want to find out what is the limit....

Last edited by Racerbuilder; 10-27-2017 at 12:39 PM.
Old 10-27-2017, 01:18 PM
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mr_matt
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Cool cause the one thing we were lacking is bigger model jets!
Old 10-27-2017, 06:16 PM
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raron455
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Here in the US the weight limit for turbines under the AMA LTMA2 classification is 100lbs, 125lbs for non turbine powered aircraft. Heavier than that and you are not offered any protection by the AMA.
Old 10-27-2017, 09:53 PM
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Racerbuilder
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So you mean this rules:On January 25, 2011, AMA’s Executive Council (EC) approved an update to the Large Model Aircraft program. This program includes some significant changes. To review the document go to Click image for larger version

Name:	520-a.pdf
Views:	27
Size:	561.7 KB
ID:	2242679.

One of the most prominent changes is the weight increase to 125 pounds for prop-driven models (LMA) and 100 pounds for turbine-powered models (LTMA). There are four classifications referenced within the program: LMA-1, LMA-2, LTMA-1 and LTMA-2.

Classifications LMA-1 and LTMA-1 (55 pounds to 77.2 pounds) will allow for a self-inspection by the owner of the LMA or a Large Model Aircraft Inspector (LMAI). It will require two demonstration flights in front of two observers. The owner can serve as one of the observers, as long as he/she is not the pilot of the model. The other observer has to be an AMA Contest Director (CD), Leader Member (LM) or Large Model Aircraft Inspector (LMAI).

Classifications LMA-2 and LTMA-2 will require inspection by an LMAI, followed by demonstration flights observed by the inspector.

Please note that all required documentation (as outlined in the program) has to be received by AMA HQ no later than 30 days after being issued for the permit to be valid! AMA HQ will send a receipt notification to the owner listed on the Permit to Fly and update the Web site listing. This document can be found in the Members Only section. Safety & Member Benefits Department


But this means 77,2 pounds is the limit for self inspected planes... wich is 35 Kg... this is enough for my new projekts but less what I was in the hope what will be allowed....

We talk about big planes, the marked is cracy about big planes, everybody wants to scale up and up... some other Plane companys go the way make it big and they make it to light... this to light will couse in an colapse of the airframe in short time. I like it BIG and I will not forget the strenght we have to put in the plane so it will last long. Shure we do not build the lightest planes on the planet.... but we produce save Planes.

Is there the same rules in Canada? Australia? would be also interesting for me... my new projects are quite big, so the 25Kg (55lbs) will be very hard to get....
Old 10-27-2017, 10:07 PM
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Racerbuilder
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Default Speed Limit

Uff I just read the PDF file.... you have a Speed limit for the planes 200 mph and a trhrust limit.... Uh... serious????

We test our planes 2 times overpowered on a save field to see wich part needs to be stronger in construction... and I allways have been asked can I put an 160...180...200 Thrust turbine in your model... and we talk about models wich are small... so customer ask me to overpower a model 3 times of the weight will be a good Idea and I read it is only allowed 5 lbs over the weight???? And this with an speed limit....

Ok then I will be save in this case...

Thanks for the answeres... very interesting...
Old 10-28-2017, 04:00 AM
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Also read that it is 5 lbs over the weight up to a max thrust of 75 lbs of thrust, which ever is less.
Old 10-28-2017, 10:50 AM
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How do the 3D guys getaway with more power?
Old 10-28-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by raron455 View Post
Here in the US the weight limit for turbines under the AMA LTMA2 classification is 100lbs, 125lbs for non turbine powered aircraft. Heavier than that and you are not offered any protection by the AMA.
Has anyone ever benefitted from “protection of the AMA?”

I suppose the only reason I’m a member at all is to fly at fields that require it. But with that said, is there a rule that actually matters in the US with regard to model size? By that I mean something the FAA mandates, since AMA is not a governing body.
Old 10-28-2017, 08:01 PM
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Yes I have seen the AMA pay out under their insurance protection.
The AMA does provide a service with the litigious society we live in.
The limits of my homeowners is only 100,000 per person, not even pocket change with lawsuits today.

I am not against large planes but, any aircraft can cause damage.
Old 10-29-2017, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Auburn02 View Post
Has anyone ever benefitted from “protection of the AMA?”

I suppose the only reason I’m a member at all is to fly at fields that require it. But with that said, is there a rule that actually matters in the US with regard to model size? By that I mean something the FAA mandates, since AMA is not a governing body.
I have also seen AMA pay out to a President of a Club that hit himself with his own plane, due to loosing it in the sun. He is now permanently in a wheel chair. Don't know how much he received from them. And, he hit himself in the back of the neck with only a .60 glow plane.

The way that I understand the combination of the "Insurance rules of the AMA" and the rules of the FAA. If you don't belong to the AMA, you personally are no longer a member of a Special Interest Group that the FAA has waived the members to be hobbyist. Then, when you fly your aircraft, you are illegally entering FAA controlled airspace and subject to the rules and regulations of the FAA. Not to mention the beginning fines that start at $10K.
Old 10-29-2017, 07:16 AM
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Racer builder. The LTMA-2 class is nightmarish for a builder to complete. I went through the LTMA-1 and it was tolerable. Now how many CD's of events or individual clubs are actually enforcing this is the other question. If Pilot A, King of the geeks shows up with his 100 pound jet at the coolest jet show event on the planet, but its not certified... (thereby making the AMA insurance non-binding) Will the CD have the balls to shut down the pilot?

My question is, who in the hell wants these giant jets? Putting cost aside, (because there are always people who will have the money), its a pain in the ass to transport and store these planes! I have a MB Sprinter van just for this hobby and I don't want a giant jet. Is it just the insecure amongst us trying to show they have the largest johnson? Too many concerns as these things get bigger. Necessity for actual engineering, not a hobbyist "modeling" them. Bigger hole in the ground or property when they hit something.

Is this what the market is demanding?
Old 10-29-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Auburn02 View Post
Has anyone ever benefitted from “protection of the AMA?”

I suppose the only reason I’m a member at all is to fly at fields that require it. But with that said, is there a rule that actually matters in the US with regard to model size? By that I mean something the FAA mandates, since AMA is not a governing body.
The fact that the FAA allows you to fly turbines under the AMA programming is you directly benefiting from "ama protection"
Old 10-29-2017, 04:31 PM
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rhklenke
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Originally Posted by Auburn02 View Post
Has anyone ever benefitted from “protection of the AMA?”

I suppose the only reason I’m a member at all is to fly at fields that require it. But with that said, is there a rule that actually matters in the US with regard to model size? By that I mean something the FAA mandates, since AMA is not a governing body.
If you are flying an a model aircraft over 55 lbs that is NOT " certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization" (meaning the AMA's Large Model Aircraft (LMA) program), then you are in direct violation ofFederal Aviation Regulations (FAR) part 101.

As stated above, being in violation of an FAR can result in large fines and even jail time, not to mention rendering almost any insurance coverage null and void.

Participating in the AMA's LMA program as a member of the AMA releases you from that regulation.

I take somewhat of an issue with DrScoles comments above - getting an aircraft inspected under the LTMA-2 program is not that difficult, you just need to locate the right inspector with jet experience.

Bob

Last edited by rhklenke; 10-29-2017 at 06:41 PM.
Old 10-29-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Racer builder. The LTMA-2 class is nightmarish for a builder to complete. I went through the LTMA-1 and it was tolerable. Now how many CD's of events or individual clubs are actually enforcing this is the other question. If Pilot A, King of the geeks shows up with his 100 pound jet at the coolest jet show event on the planet, but its not certified... (thereby making the AMA insurance non-binding) Will the CD have the balls to shut down the pilot?
They'd better have - CD's need to realize that if they have the direct responsibility to enforce the AMA's rules and if they don't and something happens, they are going to find themselves in the role of "defendant" without the benefit of the AMA insurance (most likely) and also perhaps without the benefit of their own insurance...

Bob
Old 10-29-2017, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
The fact that the FAA allows you to fly turbines under the AMA programming is you directly benefiting from "ama protection"
With the exception of Bob’s quoted FAR applying to all model aircraft over 55 lbs, is there any such FAA restriction on turbines specifically?
Old 10-30-2017, 04:26 AM
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No, and for that you can thank the AMA
Old 10-30-2017, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Auburn02 View Post
With the exception of Bob’s quoted FAR applying to all model aircraft over 55 lbs, is there any such FAA restriction on turbines specifically?
No,, except during certain forest fire seasons..........
Old 10-30-2017, 07:04 AM
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Pretty sure thats local and not FAA
Old 10-30-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rcflyguy_26 View Post
How do the 3D guys getaway with more power?
??
Old 10-30-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rcflyguy_26 View Post
??
They are not using turbine engines. the only engines that are restricted in power output are turbines....
Old 10-30-2017, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Terry Holston View Post
They are not using turbine engines. the only engines that are restricted in power output are turbines....
No... the 3D jets... they have way more power than just 5lbs over there weight.
Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rcflyguy_26 View Post
No... the 3D jets... they have way more power than just 5lbs over there weight.
The +5lb rule only applies to LTMA-1 and LTMA-2 aircraft. Those that are under 55 lbs flying weight are simply limited to 50 lbs max total thrust.
Old 11-01-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Racerbuilder View Post
Hello all Jet flyers,

i try to find out what is the limit on RC-Jets in the countrys arround the world. In the past, jets getting bigger and bigger... so I try to find out where it ends...

and yes, we produce Jets as well... and we produce in Germany... so here is the start:

Germany: 25 KG or 55,11 lbs Wet.. that means all in.... Kerosene and also Smokeoil then everyone can fly this on a airfield wich is alowed fly 25 kg. Plane and pilot need no license.

When the plane is over 25Kg up to 150Kg you can get it proved and you need a licence to fly, also a airfield wich is alowed to fly planes up to 150 Kg..

So I am interested what is alowed in other countrys... go ahead... tell me what is the law and rules...

Why I am asking? I want to prpduce some real big planes and I want to find out what is the limit....

To simplify, in the US, up to 55lbs, ready to fly (full fuel/smoke), over 55lbs the plane has to be certified and many limitations begin.
Old 11-19-2017, 10:12 AM
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Ok... so 55 pound... thats it...

ok.. Iwas in the hope you can fly more heavy......

thanks for all the informations....

so I have to downsize some projects....
Old 11-19-2017, 10:38 AM
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You can fly larger but you need an inspection

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