1/6 F-105 Build Thread
08-28-2018, 04:50 PM
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1/6 F-105 Build Thread
This is a build thread for a scratch built 1/6 F-105. I acquired the kit parts from Larry Sorenson of Minnesota in July from his add here on RCU. The parts were scratch built by Bob Moore (B-1Bob) several years ago. The fabrication and build of the prototype was well documented by Bob on Youtube and the videos are still available. My understanding is that my kit was one of several that were initially delivered to Joe Grice in Minnesota and this one has now migrated to me in South Carolina. Larry also has another kit which he intends to build soon.
In my research I learned that in addition to the prototype flown by Bob, there have only been two others that flew. The second one built by Bob was flown a few times by Ali Machinchy and the third one built by Bob Rullie in Massachusetts flew a test flight in 2017 and is ready for further flights now but has had turbine problems. Also there is a third one that has been built by Fighteraces in England but has not been flown.
Here are some photos of Bob's completed model.
Bob's prototype
Its big, about 11' long
It flies
Three views
Kit parts from Larry's RCU add
In my research I learned that in addition to the prototype flown by Bob, there have only been two others that flew. The second one built by Bob was flown a few times by Ali Machinchy and the third one built by Bob Rullie in Massachusetts flew a test flight in 2017 and is ready for further flights now but has had turbine problems. Also there is a third one that has been built by Fighteraces in England but has not been flown.
Here are some photos of Bob's completed model.
Bob's prototype
Its big, about 11' long
It flies
Three views
Kit parts from Larry's RCU add
Last edited by Viper1GJ; 08-28-2018 at 05:51 PM.
08-28-2018, 04:59 PM
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Here are some photos of the completed models I have found.
Thunderbird built for Ali is now in Minnesota
F-105 by Bob Rullie in Massachusetts
Thunderbird built for Ali is now in Minnesota
F-105 by Bob Rullie in Massachusetts
Last edited by Viper1GJ; 08-29-2018 at 04:01 AM.
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-28-2018, 05:14 PM
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Shipping and pickup was an event. The fantastic crate built by Larry was shipped to the wrong agent in SC so I went to pick it up instead of having it shipped again.
Crate building by Larry
Ready for pick up.
I picked up the crate at the agent in Columbia because they were going to reship it to Charleston and then to my home. Three guys and a fork lift put it on the trailer.
Arrival at shop.
I took the top off and unloaded everything I could to get the crate light enough to slide off the trailer.
Crate pushed into the shop
Ready to unpack.
Crate building by Larry
Ready for pick up.
I picked up the crate at the agent in Columbia because they were going to reship it to Charleston and then to my home. Three guys and a fork lift put it on the trailer.
Arrival at shop.
I took the top off and unloaded everything I could to get the crate light enough to slide off the trailer.
Crate pushed into the shop
Ready to unpack.
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-28-2018, 05:27 PM
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Unpacking the crate.
Larry did an outstanding job packing and building the crate. There was no damaged to any parts at all even though there were 4 holes that were punched through the lid by something heavy that was set on top.
Excellent packing job
All out except fuse.
Four boxes below contained parts
Fuse was full of parts
Wings, gear doors, and tanks
Intakes, tanks, and stabs
Gear and misc parts
Larry did an outstanding job packing and building the crate. There was no damaged to any parts at all even though there were 4 holes that were punched through the lid by something heavy that was set on top.
Excellent packing job
All out except fuse.
Four boxes below contained parts
Fuse was full of parts
Wings, gear doors, and tanks
Intakes, tanks, and stabs
Gear and misc parts
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-28-2018, 05:38 PM
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First Look
After unpacking the parts I assembled the big pieces to get an idea of what I had. My first impression was "its big".
Fitting wings showed the spar tab was binding on aluminum slide blocks
Right wing the same
Its big, table is 8 feet long
Looks cool but lots of work
Glass work is very rough and will require lots of body work
Looks cool from front
At this point I'm saying to myself, "what have I done"? I think I wanted the challenge of building it...and It will be a challenge as I have found lots of issues to deal with.
After unpacking the parts I assembled the big pieces to get an idea of what I had. My first impression was "its big".
Fitting wings showed the spar tab was binding on aluminum slide blocks
Right wing the same
Its big, table is 8 feet long
Looks cool but lots of work
Glass work is very rough and will require lots of body work
Looks cool from front
At this point I'm saying to myself, "what have I done"? I think I wanted the challenge of building it...and It will be a challenge as I have found lots of issues to deal with.
Last edited by Viper1GJ; 08-29-2018 at 04:08 AM.
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-29-2018, 03:58 PM
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Ron,
Thanks, I never got to see it fly except on video. My understanding is that Joe Grice had the landing gear redesigned and made by Matrix Machine in NY. They are massive and quite heavy. Bob Rullie told me he had major problems with the mains and had to convert them to electric by Down and Locked to make them work. The guys in England said they were unreliable also. We will see. The adventure continues...
Gary
Thanks, I never got to see it fly except on video. My understanding is that Joe Grice had the landing gear redesigned and made by Matrix Machine in NY. They are massive and quite heavy. Bob Rullie told me he had major problems with the mains and had to convert them to electric by Down and Locked to make them work. The guys in England said they were unreliable also. We will see. The adventure continues...
Gary
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-29-2018, 04:05 PM
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-29-2018, 04:28 PM
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A little history side note...
I wanted to be a pilot and played with airplanes since I could remember. I started building models early and got my first C/L model in 1959. However in August 1965 National Geographic magazine came out with cover photo and story on the US Air Force. I remember distinctly after studying the story and pictures saying "thats what I want to do, I want to be a fighter pilot". I saved that magazine and still have it. I was blessed to be able fly fighters later in life but I still remember those pictures. When doing research for this project I found them. Life changing pictures for me...all F-105s.
Also my first fighter squadron and my last fighter squadron during my Air Force career flew the F-105 out of Korat AB during the Vietnam war. To some degree I am building this project to honor those pilots and I think that is why I took such an interest in trying to do it.
Gary
I wanted to be a pilot and played with airplanes since I could remember. I started building models early and got my first C/L model in 1959. However in August 1965 National Geographic magazine came out with cover photo and story on the US Air Force. I remember distinctly after studying the story and pictures saying "thats what I want to do, I want to be a fighter pilot". I saved that magazine and still have it. I was blessed to be able fly fighters later in life but I still remember those pictures. When doing research for this project I found them. Life changing pictures for me...all F-105s.
Also my first fighter squadron and my last fighter squadron during my Air Force career flew the F-105 out of Korat AB during the Vietnam war. To some degree I am building this project to honor those pilots and I think that is why I took such an interest in trying to do it.
Gary
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-29-2018, 04:50 PM
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Actual work started the 2nd week of August.
Bob Rullie recommended to check the toe in angle of the main landing gear first since his was way off. He sent his to be converted to electric to improve the reliability and it took several months. His recommendation was to get that started so work could continue on other parts when the gear were away if necessary.
This set up a work plan which needed the gear to be mounted to check the toe in angle. This required mounting the gear, which required mounting of the wings, which required formers, turbine rails, and wing root hard points to firmly mount the wings and check the gear...whew!
Eat the elephant one bite at a time. First step was to cut out gear doors and servo wells.
Dremel cutting wheel used to cut glass and carbon skin
Final corner cuts by Xacto hand saw
Down draft table helped with dust
First look inside
Edges sanded
Servo doors and gear doors
Cuts done
Bob Rullie recommended to check the toe in angle of the main landing gear first since his was way off. He sent his to be converted to electric to improve the reliability and it took several months. His recommendation was to get that started so work could continue on other parts when the gear were away if necessary.
This set up a work plan which needed the gear to be mounted to check the toe in angle. This required mounting the gear, which required mounting of the wings, which required formers, turbine rails, and wing root hard points to firmly mount the wings and check the gear...whew!
Eat the elephant one bite at a time. First step was to cut out gear doors and servo wells.
Dremel cutting wheel used to cut glass and carbon skin
Final corner cuts by Xacto hand saw
Down draft table helped with dust
First look inside
Edges sanded
Servo doors and gear doors
Cuts done
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fotis kalevras (08-28-2020)
08-29-2018, 05:05 PM
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Landing gear assessment.
I sat the main gear in the gear wells to have a look. At first look it does appear that the toe in angle is excessive. It is impossible to measure without mounting the wings since the whole airframe is compound curves and there is no straight line anywhere. I will have to get the wings mounted and then place the fuse on a center line and then compare the toe in with that line. This will require several steps first.
In addition to toe in, I discovered that the left wing is thinner in the gear mount area than the right wing. There is not enough depth to place the gear on the mounting rails. The inside of the top wing skin contacts the bottom of the left gear. Its not even close, almost 1/4" different between the two wings. Bob Rullie had the same problem. Still pondering how to fix this. You can grind away the Airex core material inside the top wing skin and it will be closer but we will see later.
The gear must rotate 45° as they retract and extend.
The angle of the rotation pin at the bottom left determines the rotation. To decrease the toe in this pin must be set more to the left (clockwise). If this is the fix it will require another aluminum block in the bottom left corner and a longer pin to engage the block. All not easy for me to do. Anyway first step is to get it all mounted.
Gear strut had no lube inside so I disassembled and added lube
Spring and sleeve was dry
I sat the main gear in the gear wells to have a look. At first look it does appear that the toe in angle is excessive. It is impossible to measure without mounting the wings since the whole airframe is compound curves and there is no straight line anywhere. I will have to get the wings mounted and then place the fuse on a center line and then compare the toe in with that line. This will require several steps first.
In addition to toe in, I discovered that the left wing is thinner in the gear mount area than the right wing. There is not enough depth to place the gear on the mounting rails. The inside of the top wing skin contacts the bottom of the left gear. Its not even close, almost 1/4" different between the two wings. Bob Rullie had the same problem. Still pondering how to fix this. You can grind away the Airex core material inside the top wing skin and it will be closer but we will see later.
The gear must rotate 45° as they retract and extend.
The angle of the rotation pin at the bottom left determines the rotation. To decrease the toe in this pin must be set more to the left (clockwise). If this is the fix it will require another aluminum block in the bottom left corner and a longer pin to engage the block. All not easy for me to do. Anyway first step is to get it all mounted.
Gear strut had no lube inside so I disassembled and added lube
Spring and sleeve was dry
08-29-2018, 05:21 PM
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Wing Incidence
Bob Rullie said his kit was off in wing incidence and anhedral. I decided to check the wing incidence first since that would be hardest to correct. The is no way to adjust it except to remove or modify the foundational wing mounting former. That would be like taking the foundation out of a house and then rebuilding it under the house. Would not be fun.
First problem was to find some a reference line. Since the fuse is all compound curves not easy. I looked real hard and the turbine hatch surface seemed to be close to a longitudinal axis line. I decided to use it as a zero reference line. I placed bubble levels on the hatch area and leveled it. From there I was able to check the wing incidence lines on both sides. Fortunately the wings were within 1/2° of each other checked at several places inside the ailerons. Good enough for me.
Jet leveled with turbine hatch line
Flaps taped on firmly and used to check incidence
Laser level really helped
Several places checked inside the ailerons
Both wings checked
BVM F-16 cradle worked great with some shims
Bob Rullie said his kit was off in wing incidence and anhedral. I decided to check the wing incidence first since that would be hardest to correct. The is no way to adjust it except to remove or modify the foundational wing mounting former. That would be like taking the foundation out of a house and then rebuilding it under the house. Would not be fun.
First problem was to find some a reference line. Since the fuse is all compound curves not easy. I looked real hard and the turbine hatch surface seemed to be close to a longitudinal axis line. I decided to use it as a zero reference line. I placed bubble levels on the hatch area and leveled it. From there I was able to check the wing incidence lines on both sides. Fortunately the wings were within 1/2° of each other checked at several places inside the ailerons. Good enough for me.
Jet leveled with turbine hatch line
Flaps taped on firmly and used to check incidence
Laser level really helped
Several places checked inside the ailerons
Both wings checked
BVM F-16 cradle worked great with some shims
Last edited by Viper1GJ; 08-29-2018 at 05:24 PM.
08-29-2018, 05:45 PM
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Checking Wing Anhedral
After checking the wing incidence I started checking the anhedral setting. My kit came with anhedral already set in so I think someone had already worked on it. However I could tell when checking the incidence that anhedral was a little off. So it had to be fixed since the gear are mounted in the wings and if the anhedral was crooked the jet would sit crooked forever.
Here we go...
Just looking from rear the right wing was lower than the left
Same looking from the front
Here are the aluminum main spar mounting bolts into 1/2" plywood former with blind nuts set in epoxy
This is when I realized the spar tabs have to be cut to clear the air duct inlet hole in the former. Not sure how Im going to do that just yet. Ideas appreciated.
Getting the blind nuts out was not easy. Required use of the "Big Binford 5000 RC Hammer"...then they came out
Bubble level set up for setting the anhedral
Bubble levels on jet and table with shims as needed to get level. 6' aluminum ruler set to framing squares to measure the anhedral on each wing. The right wing was set to equal the left wing.
After checking the wing incidence I started checking the anhedral setting. My kit came with anhedral already set in so I think someone had already worked on it. However I could tell when checking the incidence that anhedral was a little off. So it had to be fixed since the gear are mounted in the wings and if the anhedral was crooked the jet would sit crooked forever.
Here we go...
Just looking from rear the right wing was lower than the left
Same looking from the front
Here are the aluminum main spar mounting bolts into 1/2" plywood former with blind nuts set in epoxy
This is when I realized the spar tabs have to be cut to clear the air duct inlet hole in the former. Not sure how Im going to do that just yet. Ideas appreciated.
Getting the blind nuts out was not easy. Required use of the "Big Binford 5000 RC Hammer"...then they came out
Bubble level set up for setting the anhedral
Bubble levels on jet and table with shims as needed to get level. 6' aluminum ruler set to framing squares to measure the anhedral on each wing. The right wing was set to equal the left wing.
Last edited by Viper1GJ; 08-29-2018 at 05:48 PM.
09-03-2018, 04:57 PM
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Setting Wing Anhedral
After removing the blind nuts the holes in the wing former were ground out to allow the wing tip on the right wing to rise to match the left wing. The table was leveled with shims and the fuse leveled with bubble levels. The blind nuts were reset and the wings checked multiple times with the bubble levels and rulers. Then the blind nuts were reset with Hysol epoxy.
Fuse leveled in both axis with bubble levels
Table shimmed level and wings checked with rulers and framing squares
Everything is ready for resetting blind nuts
Blind nuts reset with epoxy
Tape applied to back side of spars to keep epoxy from bonding spars to formers
After removing the blind nuts the holes in the wing former were ground out to allow the wing tip on the right wing to rise to match the left wing. The table was leveled with shims and the fuse leveled with bubble levels. The blind nuts were reset and the wings checked multiple times with the bubble levels and rulers. Then the blind nuts were reset with Hysol epoxy.
Fuse leveled in both axis with bubble levels
Table shimmed level and wings checked with rulers and framing squares
Everything is ready for resetting blind nuts
Blind nuts reset with epoxy
Tape applied to back side of spars to keep epoxy from bonding spars to formers
09-03-2018, 05:20 PM
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Nylon Guide Blocks Installed
The kit came to me with aluminum guide blocks installed above and below the aluminum spars. The aluminum against aluminum cause binding and made it very difficult to insert the wings and align the holes. I removed them and installed nylon guides that do not bind. Much easier now.
Nylon blocks cut and drilled
Flexible drill shaft used to drill holes for bolts
Small C clamp held block in place for drilling former
Holes ready for 4-40 bolts and blind nuts
Blocks installed
Wing anhedral set
The kit came to me with aluminum guide blocks installed above and below the aluminum spars. The aluminum against aluminum cause binding and made it very difficult to insert the wings and align the holes. I removed them and installed nylon guides that do not bind. Much easier now.
Nylon blocks cut and drilled
Flexible drill shaft used to drill holes for bolts
Small C clamp held block in place for drilling former
Holes ready for 4-40 bolts and blind nuts
Blocks installed
Wing anhedral set
09-03-2018, 05:41 PM
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Designing turbine formers and rails
The kit came with balsa laminated with carbon formers and turbine rails that are not useable because the balsa is not end grain. They were very useful in laying out the design and making new formers.
Top view
From rear
Pipe bell mouth shape provided by Joey Tamez. He will make the pipe.
Turbine full size templates made from pink fan fold foam
initial planning layout using templates
The kit came with balsa laminated with carbon formers and turbine rails that are not useable because the balsa is not end grain. They were very useful in laying out the design and making new formers.
Top view
From rear
Pipe bell mouth shape provided by Joey Tamez. He will make the pipe.
Turbine full size templates made from pink fan fold foam
initial planning layout using templates
09-03-2018, 06:09 PM
#21
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Making New Formers
Former patterns were transferred to file folder card stock and tested for fit in proper locations. Then 1/4" foam patterns were made for mock up
fitting. Final patterns were transferred to 1/4" plywood and cut for final fitting prior to being glued in with Hysol and epoxy fiber mix.
Transfer patterns to card stock
Close enough fit after several adjustments
Middle turbine former designed to keep fuse from compressing from trailing edge wing pressures.
Copies of card stock made to paper and transferred to pink foam
After final mock ups pink foam patterns transferred to 1/4" plywood
Plywood formers cut out
Turbine rails designed by same process using turbine and bell mouth templates
All wood parts cut and dry fit. Bridge across mid former fabricated and bolts installed
Final wood part dry fit. Aluminum bar ensured alignment with hole in nozzle cone on rear of fuse. Cross piece clamped ensured turbine rails level with each other.
Formers glued in with wing trailing edge hard points on each side. Turbine rails will be glued in later after pipe arrives and proper spacing determined for mounting
Former patterns were transferred to file folder card stock and tested for fit in proper locations. Then 1/4" foam patterns were made for mock up
fitting. Final patterns were transferred to 1/4" plywood and cut for final fitting prior to being glued in with Hysol and epoxy fiber mix.
Transfer patterns to card stock
Close enough fit after several adjustments
Middle turbine former designed to keep fuse from compressing from trailing edge wing pressures.
Copies of card stock made to paper and transferred to pink foam
After final mock ups pink foam patterns transferred to 1/4" plywood
Plywood formers cut out
Turbine rails designed by same process using turbine and bell mouth templates
All wood parts cut and dry fit. Bridge across mid former fabricated and bolts installed
Final wood part dry fit. Aluminum bar ensured alignment with hole in nozzle cone on rear of fuse. Cross piece clamped ensured turbine rails level with each other.
Formers glued in with wing trailing edge hard points on each side. Turbine rails will be glued in later after pipe arrives and proper spacing determined for mounting
09-03-2018, 06:31 PM
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Making Turbine Rails
Turbine rails were cut and dry fit. They had to be aligned with the hole in the rear of the fuse and level with each other. An aluminum bar was used to align with the rear hole. Some adjustments were needed in the slots to get both to line up.
Rails dry fit ready for alignement
Aluminum bar centered on rear hole
Wood clamped across stab formers to align bar with rear hole
1/8" ply doublers epoxied to turbine rails
Turbine rails complete ready for drilling turbine and pipe mounting holes
Turbine rails were cut and dry fit. They had to be aligned with the hole in the rear of the fuse and level with each other. An aluminum bar was used to align with the rear hole. Some adjustments were needed in the slots to get both to line up.
Rails dry fit ready for alignement
Aluminum bar centered on rear hole
Wood clamped across stab formers to align bar with rear hole
1/8" ply doublers epoxied to turbine rails
Turbine rails complete ready for drilling turbine and pipe mounting holes
09-03-2018, 06:44 PM
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Just saw this video in the Best In The West thread. It is one of the best videos out there of Bob Moore's F-105 flying. My understanding it still had the first gear design installed and the nose did not retract.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...018-promo.html
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...018-promo.html
