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Buyer BEWARE! CRX Turbines New York

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Buyer BEWARE! CRX Turbines New York

Old 03-27-2019, 05:39 AM
  #1  
Larry J
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Default Buyer BEWARE! CRX Turbines New York

Hello to all,

Typically if I do not have something good to say, I don't speak at all. Today though I feel it is my duty to tell you all about an issue I have with CRX turbines in New York.

First I little history on me. I have been a mechanical service engineer and electronics tech my whole life. I have successfully rebuilt many turbine engines from complete disassembly to over 70 (seventy) hours in service on a single RC turbine. These include JetCat, Wren and JetJoe. I can balance them if needed no problem. I have access to an electronic balancing machine.

I recently purchased a used Swiwin Ace 60 brushed version. Upon attempting to start it up for the very first time, it will not start. No RPM shows on the display when the engine is spinning up from the starter. The RPM always shows zero on the GSU display. So this of course stops the startup process and faults out. The RJ45 cable was changed with no luck. After sending photos and videos for confirmation, both Andy at CRX and the seller I purchased the unit from, we all believe the RPM board is bad in the engine.

Andy at CRX text messaged me a parts and labor quote to replace the RPM board, which by the way he states he does not have in stock. That was very kind of him. When I explained that I would like to buy the board alone, he refused to sell it to me. He states that "his policy" is not to sell parts. So, here we have a USA servicing distributor that will not sell parts. Andy went on to say that "if this issue swayed me away from Swiwin turbines, then so be it." How can any business with integrity make a statement like that without trying to come to some compromise? Just so you know, I have been able to buy internal parts for all three other brands I mentioned earlier with no problem.

This board is just under the front cowl. It does require un-soldering the old one and soldering in the new one.

In my 40 years experience in the service industry, no service operation has ever refused to sell parts for their product. In fact, a good business model shows that parts are where you are supposed to be making your money, not just service.

So anyone considering buying a Swiwin from CRX, should consider the fact you may experience this lack of support issue as I have. If you would never replace any parts yourself and will always return your engine for everything, then this may not apply to you.

Thanks for your time reading this.

Last edited by Larry J; 03-27-2019 at 05:47 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 06:08 AM
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BarracudaHockey
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Not agreeing or disagreeing with your assessment but I'll say that Horizon Hobby won't sell you parts to fix their radios so this isn't a first.
Old 03-27-2019, 06:12 AM
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gunradd
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Problem is Larry in this world of lawsuits I can understand why he says this. Also in dealing with customers working on their own engines I have seen some pretty bad stuff that they cause. I am a FAA licensed A&P Aircraft and power plant mechanic along with my IA Inspectors license. I would totally understand if he said I needed to return it for repair even though I have done hot section inspections and anything else you can think of on full scale turbines. In the world of liability and lawsuits this is what needs to be done.
Old 03-27-2019, 07:01 AM
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LGM Graphix
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And if he sold you the board and it was in some way faulty the question would be raised "was it bad from new or damaged during installation".
I paint motorcycles for a living. Often customers just bring the tins to me. I have in the past had a couple try to tell me there is a big scratch in a freshly painted part or a ding or something. When they do the install of parts themselves I hold no obligation to repair damage caused by their install. The mistake i made early on was not making that clear. When complete bikes are delivered to me that have to be disassembled I now have a check list that the customer and I go through. Do all lights work, horn work, damage to any parts other than tins, does the bike run etc.
I can't fault any company for not selling a part that the average person may not be able to install. Whatever your skillset is, it is not the normal skillset of the average modeler and CRX doesn't know your skillset for certain. I can tell somebody I'm a jet pilot. If I fail to mention its RC jets they don't know what my actual skill is. I could tell somebody I'm a neurosurgeon too, it would be a total lie but I could say it.
As soon as it is a part that has to be soldered in it's no longer a plug and play piece. I have no swiwin turbines, never dealt with CRX turbines, but I see nothing that he did wrong in this situation. His comment to you may seem brash but at the end of the day I simply take it as "sorry but if you don't want to use a particular product because you don't agree with our policies that it's not our issue" and he's right. If not respecting their policy over something small like this is enough to have you start this post I suspect you are a difficult individual to please anyway.
Old 03-27-2019, 07:24 AM
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ltc
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Out of curiosity, do any other RC turbine vendors (Kingtech, JetCentral, JetCat) sell just parts directly to the end user?
Old 03-27-2019, 08:09 AM
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basimpsn
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I really can't see why selling a RPM sensor or a starting motor could cause a lawsuits...The engine just won't start if that's not the problem. Replacing a turbine wheel, compressor or bearing I could understand...But this as been going on for years so deal with it.
Old 03-27-2019, 08:24 AM
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gunradd
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Originally Posted by basimpsn View Post
I really can't see why selling a RPM sensor or a starting motor could cause a lawsuits...The engine just won't start if that's not the problem. Replacing a turbine wheel, compressor or bearing I could understand...But this as been going on for years so deal with it.
Lets say a screw for the front cover or the starter motor is left loose then it works its way out during flight causing the engine to FOD out and start on fire. Now the model crashes into a house.. Its really not hard to imagine...
Old 03-27-2019, 09:01 AM
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camss69
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Apple won’t sell you parts either...

Why wouldn’t you just send it to him, if the diagnosis is wrong you won’t get charged for the part? And he can diagnose and fix it right the first time?
Old 03-27-2019, 09:24 AM
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As a turbine service rep, I will not sell internal parts either. It’s a liability issue and even if you’re experienced in turbine building nobody is your friend when bad things happen or they lose thousands of dollars. Things like pumps and external ECUs sure no problem. Just my two cent, I don’t any turbine manufacturers that will just sell internal parts.
Not taking sides or anything just passing on my point of view.

Last edited by FenderBean; 03-27-2019 at 09:26 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 09:25 AM
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basimpsn
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Lets say a screw for the front cover or the starter motor is left loose then it works its way out during flight causing the engine to FOD out and start on fire. Now the model crashes into a house.. Its really not hard to imagine...
Lol come on now.. I never seen a starting motor causing FOD damage before? maybe you have but I can't see the Bendix getting pass the compressor nut. A loose screws would fall inside the starter assembly and that might short something out but that's a stretch. I'm just saying a rpm sensor or a starter if someone take it upon themselves to replace these parts shouldn't be denied but to each its own. On a DA or DLE 120 gas engine you could replace down to the crank shaft or piston rings. But I understand.
My Opinion.
Old 03-27-2019, 09:30 AM
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sirrom
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Originally Posted by camss69 View Post
Apple won’t sell you parts either...

Why wouldn’t you just send it to him, if the diagnosis is wrong you won’t get charged for the part? And he can diagnose and fix it right the first time?
I work for a school and apple DOES send us parts to fix our laptops, but we have people who are CERTIFIED to repair them. So what I am saying is that I kind of agree with Andy. It's his policy and we just read this same exact thing on another thread with a different manufacturer. Bottom line is Andy is protecting his brand and he has the right to do so. I am sure I can't call up Dirk at Kingtech and have him send me a part for my K140 or JetCentral to get an internal part for my Cheetah...its just not done.

Patrick
Old 03-27-2019, 09:32 AM
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basimpsn
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Originally Posted by camss69 View Post
Apple won’t sell you parts either...
You can buy parts for Apple product.
www.digikey.com :-)
Old 03-27-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by basimpsn View Post
You can buy parts for Apple product.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP6Z3Fml9f4
www.digikey.com :-)
Not *from* Apple...

I suspect the main reason not to sell parts to users is more about the issues with disputes WRT who's responsible if the installed part doesn't work, more than the overall liability that can occur if the user-repaired system causes some damage.

One only has to read the rantings about "customer service issues" here on RCU to know that selling parts to users whom may, or may not be competent to install them is leaving you open to *all kinds* of potential heartburn!

Also, unlike the OP, I think that the margin on parts is fairly small, and the service work is where you can make the money. Large retailers like Digikey can make money on parts and absorb the losses that may come from disputes about an individual part working, but a one-man shop, probably not so much...

Bob

Last edited by rhklenke; 03-27-2019 at 11:44 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 10:22 AM
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camss69
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Originally Posted by rhklenke View Post
Not *from* Apple...

I suspect the main reason not to sell parts to users is more about the issues with disputes WRT who's responsible if the installed part doesn't work, more that the overall liability that can occur if the user-repaired system causes some damage.

One only has to read the rantings about "customer service issues" here on RCU to know that selling parts to users whom may, or may not be compitent to install them is leaving you open to *all kinds* of potential heartburn!

Also, unlike the OP, I think that the margin on parts is fairly small, and the service work is where you can make the money. Large retailers like Digikey can make money on parts and absorb the losses that may come from disputes about an individual part working, but a one-man shop, probably not so much...

Bob
Exactly, and if I was a certified Swiwin repair facility Swiwin would sell me parts as well..
Old 03-27-2019, 11:00 AM
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CARS II
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Here is the damage the bendix did on my P60.

Since you never seen this kind of damage, here you go.
Old 03-27-2019, 12:31 PM
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Andy is a stand up guy. He spent a very long time with me on the phone helping me program an ESC for a turbine that he never even sold me! No charge for that.. If I purchased a turbine from him that had issues and he told me I had to send it to him, I would, without hesitation!!

If he can help you he will.

As others have mentioned..its liability.

BTW.. you cant get internal parts from KT or Jetcat. Ive tried in the past. and who gives a crap about Apple! we're talking turbines here
Old 03-27-2019, 03:47 PM
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What a bunch of BS comments. I drove an 80,000 lbs truck years ago and Kenworth would sell me any piece or part I would ever need. No certification or license of any kind needed.
Andy, just sell the man the damn board!

My $.02
Old 03-27-2019, 03:52 PM
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Did your trucks engine have an rpm of 150,000 and travel at 150+mph?? you know...like a missile??
Old 03-27-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Vettster View Post
Did your trucks engine have an rpm of 150,000 and travel at 150+mph?? you know...like a missile??
80,000lbs at 70mph. 4 feet from your children.
Old 03-27-2019, 05:13 PM
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basimpsn
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Originally Posted by CARS II View Post

Here is the damage the bendix did on my P60.

Since you never seen this kind of damage, here you go.
OK...look more like a chain reaction?
Old 03-27-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rfrantz View Post
What a bunch of BS comments. I drove an 80,000 lbs truck years ago and Kenworth would sell me any piece or part I would ever need. No certification or license of any kind needed.
Andy, just sell the man the damn board!

My $.02
What a BS comment yourself! Truck and car parts are quite a bit different then the hobby parts we're talking about here. You can build a nation-wide, multi-million dollar company on car/truck parts, there are many examples of such, and that big of a company has much more of a reserve tp deal with anything that happens.

The point here, if you've ever dealt with any of the hobby turbine companies, is that, as posted above, they won't sell you any of the major parts (certainly none of the rotating parts) because the don't want to deal with the issues that can arise. Andy's position is the norm for this industry...

Bob
Old 03-28-2019, 01:05 AM
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In Europe, by law, every consumer may buy repair spare parts for any item but......

1.- All the repair spare parts are sold with NO WARRANTY and seller may refuse change the item or return money if buyer ordered a wrong part.
2.- Law says nothing about price, so it is easy many vital repair parts cost nearly as much as the complete item.

Just my 2 cents!

Best Regards,
Old 03-28-2019, 02:46 AM
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I know at least 2 German turbine manufacturers who will not sell you sole replacement parts to fix or service your turbine for exactly the same reasons as mention before.
Old 03-28-2019, 05:40 AM
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I've dealt with Andy from CRX and he's a stand up guy.

Sent him my turbine and got it back in little time (around a week or so) and he spent the time with me to make sure it was working correctly.

Found a small hole in the UAT ...

Cool dude,

Look for parts at BH if so inclinded
Old 03-28-2019, 06:02 AM
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geneh-RCU
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Andy is a good guy. I can understand why he won't sell repair parts for a turbine. He will not even sell you a turbine online without talking to you first because of liability issues. Just send him your turbine and have it repaired and checked out by him .

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