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Buyers beware, warning!! Aviation jets su-35

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Buyers beware, warning!! Aviation jets su-35

Old 04-24-2019, 07:04 PM
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flejter1
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Default Buyers beware, warning!! Aviation jets su-35

Hello Everyone!

As most of you know, we have been selling and supporting Aviation Jets for the last 3 years. Aviation Jets finally released the long awaited SU-35, that we declined to sell until we have fully tested this model. After numerous requests for them to send us a pre-production jet (that we paid for, not a free demo) they finally sent it months after they released the jet elsewhere. Needless to say, after a few flights we had a catastrophic air frame/wing failure that resulted in a total loss of the jet and turbines. When we reported the failure to Mark Deng and Jiang Yi at the factory, in conversation with Barry, they admitted they knew about the flaws, screws stripping at the wing clamp due to inferior material (along with other critical flaws with this jet), as they also had failures. (Now I know why they flew their SU-35 so softly in the videos they sent us trying to get us to sell it before we received our SU) Instead of telling us about the flaw, and maybe we could have helped come up with a solution to the problem, instead Mark chose to let us lose our investment. When we asked about fixing the issues before we deliver any new kits, he said "they would not fix anything until all the kits were sold, as they already pulled too many off the mold and built them". Mark said the changes would cost too much money, and "they were willing to risk no other failures would happen". They did offer to send us another kit to replace the failed kit, but still would not address or try to fix the failed issues we already know exists. Why would we want another kit that has known issues? Again, they said they built too many kits and "it is what it is". At this time, we said we could not sell this jet to our customers and would pull it down from our website.

Now in retaliation, they said they would not complete the A-10 project and put it on hold indefinitely. We invested $20,000.00 over a year ago to help get the mold built that Mark said would only take 3-4 months to get production moving faster. When we asked Mark to return our investment on the A-10 project, Mark said he didn't feel he had to because his sales are slow on our Sparrow project and he would not return our money as it is his compensation for slow sales. Mark said they will find other Dealers to sell their jets.

They now have Global Jet club, Mike Lin and Banana Hobbies, Carrie Lau selling Aviation Jets here in the U.S. If one purchases the SU-35, let it be known he's purchasing a flawed jet!!

On another note, many of you know, Barry Hou designed the Sparrow Sport Jet and we contracted and paid Aviation Jets to build it for us. If you purchase the Sparrow from Global Jet Club, Banana Hobbies, or any other U.S. based Company, you may be subjected into a law suit. Mike Lin can call it the Global Jet Sparrow, but the fact is, we have the design rights to this jet and he is infringing on our product and market and will be dealt with in Court. There are plenty of other Sport Jets to choose from and not worth the issues coming in the near future for Global & Banana hobbies.


Sorry to have to bring this to the internet like we are airing dirty laundry, but we feel it is important that the community knows how these people operate.


Regards,
Dirk & Barry

MAGA Pacific RC Jets
Old 04-24-2019, 07:15 PM
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Oh bugger! They really goofed up their reputation. Who is gonna buy anything from them anymore as there may be similar "keep-fingers-crossed-it-to-survive"-flaws knowingly ignored!
Old 04-24-2019, 07:46 PM
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It’s really too bad that it’s come to this.....looked like a promising company with some amazing scale detailing...oh well
Old 04-24-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flyloose View Post
Itís really too bad that itís come to this.....looked like a promising company with some amazing scale detailing...oh well
Tell me about it, Jiang Yi is talented and was a fair guy to deal with. I actually enjoyed working with Jiang on various issues on jets, but once his partner (money man) Mark Deng steps forward, things took a turn.

Barry
Old 04-25-2019, 04:10 AM
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ltc
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Hi
Can you explain the legal basis for an individual being the subject of a lawsuit for purchasing a plane ?
Im afraid I donít understand that part of your post.
Old 04-25-2019, 04:15 AM
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tp777fo
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Fly Eagle all over again
Old 04-25-2019, 06:08 AM
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I thought the SU-35 was too good to be true. A stunning looking aircraft like that from a relatively new manufacturer. Other well known manufacturers have been around for many years and donít make planes as good looking as their SU35. I did raise that question a while ago on another thread asking where they gained their experience to build such a super scale and complex jet but no one answered. And these are the people wanting to make a F35.... YIKES!!!
Old 04-25-2019, 07:23 AM
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yeahbaby
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Well that’s a damn shame, glad nobody was injured by falling debris etc
Old 04-25-2019, 08:02 AM
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Sorry for your loss and even more sorry that in this day in age, you (we) still have to go through rubbish behavior with some companies.
Do you have any further detail on the actual failure, what let go. I just watched the test flight again which showed a lot of promise
I almost pulled the trigger on this jet so many times.
Old 04-25-2019, 08:32 AM
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BarracudaHockey
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Sorry to hear that.

I'm not sure I'd threaten buyers with a lawsuit, unless you could prove someone knew in advance but certainly you could take action against those selling them.

That said, I wouldn't buy one just knowing they were screwing good guys.
Old 04-25-2019, 02:26 PM
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mikedenilin
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Hi Guys,

This is another post at Facebook. Here is my first reply. Other's can be seen at the comment section in this link.

https://www.facebook.com/70371347334...849404?sfns=mo

"Wow! That’s a strong accusation. I have seen numerous SU35s safely flown, including Cobra maneuvers multiple times in jet events in China. And if you stripped the wing mount clamps while you assembled the wings at the flying field why you continued the flights? I heard the story otherwise. Also what flaws did you find? If so why did you fly it? in regards to the Sparrow ownership: please show us evidence of your ownership. If it’s yours then we would gladly remove that from our distribution. I’m sure our IP attorney would be more than happy to review that. Also I think this is very unprofessional to post this accusation and slam your competitor in public while you can contact us directly should you have questions about the design ownership. Barry, we spoke on phone a few times about GJC carrying Sparrow. You didn’t tell me you own that design or tried to stop me from carrying it. I do believe AV owns that design unless you can prove it otherwise. I’m just a phone call away and live in your So Cal neighborhood. It’s kind of interesting that you guys picked up HSD Super Viper after I helped HSD design and successfully launched that jet in the USA. Did I badmouth you guys? I really think we are all mature adults who can deal this amicably. Again. My passion is to make turbine jets affordable to all of us, so picking up a good project like this would benefit all. Su35. I am sure I would make it right. It’s in my Aerospace engineering blood to resolve any airworthiness issue. Done that for JL, SM, FB etc. Regards. Mike. Founder of Global Jet Club"
Old 04-25-2019, 10:27 PM
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Thumbs up Sounds fair....

Originally Posted by mikedenilin View Post
Hi Guys,

This is another post at Facebook. Here is my first reply. Other's can be seen at the comment section in this link.

https://www.facebook.com/70371347334...849404?sfns=mo

"Wow! Thatís a strong accusation. I have seen numerous SU35s safely flown, including Cobra maneuvers multiple times in jet events in China. And if you stripped the wing mount clamps while you assembled the wings at the flying field why you continued the flights? I heard the story otherwise. Also what flaws did you find? If so why did you fly it? in regards to the Sparrow ownership: please show us evidence of your ownership. If itís yours then we would gladly remove that from our distribution. Iím sure our IP attorney would be more than happy to review that. Also I think this is very unprofessional to post this accusation and slam your competitor in public while you can contact us directly should you have questions about the design ownership. Barry, we spoke on phone a few times about GJC carrying Sparrow. You didnít tell me you own that design or tried to stop me from carrying it. I do believe AV owns that design unless you can prove it otherwise. Iím just a phone call away and live in your So Cal neighborhood. Itís kind of interesting that you guys picked up HSD Super Viper after I helped HSD design and successfully launched that jet in the USA. Did I badmouth you guys? I really think we are all mature adults who can deal this amicably. Again. My passion is to make turbine jets affordable to all of us, so picking up a good project like this would benefit all. Su35. I am sure I would make it right. Itís in my Aerospace engineering blood to resolve any airworthiness issue. Done that for JL, SM, FB etc. Regards. Mike. Founder of Global Jet Club"
Mike,

I like your approach mate.

JanR
Old 04-26-2019, 04:37 AM
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Sorry I have zero respect for a manufacture that will knowingly sell an aircraft that has a defect that causes crashes. I know from experience when I lost my skymaster F18 went in I almost left the hobby altogether. We know at least 2 for sure have gone down and I have herd possibly 3 or 4 now have had the wings fold. These big twins cost as much as a car. They can also do allot of damage when they crash causing injury fires or even loss of life. When the issue was brought up for a fix they said they built to many already to fix it so they are not going to fix anything until they are all sold. This is complete crap unsafe and plane wrong. My feelings towards this is beyond words and I have to keep erasing what I type because its not professional.

Mike you say you can fix it.... I'm sure you can fix it. We can also fix it. Problem is Barry was tasked to test a new aircraft. This aircraft needs to be as stock as possible for testing so that when customers get the aircraft its solid. Well we found out its not solid. When asking them to make changes they refuse because so many have been built already and they want to sell them first before changes. Coming up with a way to fix it does no good if they wont listen and make changes.

Here is the big difference between a great model company and a shizity one. When I am asked to build T-1 prototypes we open up a WECHAT channel with the manufacture. We all communicate almost daily on the progress and what can be done better. This is huge in helping to get a great end product. T-1 factory is great to deal with and the fact they take PRIDE in their work shows. The production F22 is going to be so much better then the already great aircraft I built. The T-1 sport jet now internally does not look anything like my old prototype I built years ago. They want to make the best aircraft they can and its refreshing to see after dealing with some of these other manufactures.
Old 04-26-2019, 09:40 AM
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Hello everyone, my name is Carrie Lau, director of operations at Global Jet Club and owner of Banana Hobby. As a vendor in this small RC market for over 13 years, we have always treated and will continue to treat every vendor as a colleague in our industry. We have never and will not talk or ever post any negativity towards any company anywhere. This is a common mutual respect that I believe any person in charge and or whom owns a company should abide with. @ Pacific RC Jets Dirk, you have just taken your experience with the SU-35 and Aviation Jets to a public media outlet and posted our names and directed comments towards us as well as accusations that have no validity. Your experience with the SU-35 is exactly as that. ĎYour Experienceí. A public announcement, warning customers in regards to Global Jet Club and Banana Hobby carrying Aviation Jets products we believe to be a below the belt post. We are also not here to play the he said she said games. It was the decision of Pacific RC Jets to decline and drop relations with Aviation Jets. You shared your side of your experience with the SU-35 and it was written without the context of what your conversation with Mark at Aviation Jets included. You did not mention the main wing area bolts were over tightened and the area threads have stripped by the person assembling the SU for flight. Having known it was over tightened and the threads have been compromised, why did you then choose to fly the aircraft? When this incident occurred with the wing failure, you also did not mention this was your 8th flight on the SU-35 was it not? As you have pointed out with the flaws of the SU-35, knowing the wing/frame area has been compromised and is a key structural area, why was the SU-35 taken to the sky again? We are not here to have any debates with your company. When you choose to use our personal names, we are intitled to speak our side. Aircraft KITS never meet every pilotís requirements and each person/pilot/builder will have his or her own opinions. The SU-35 does not have the issues you have discussed here. The materials used on the aircraft are to be used within the tolerance of the area and material.

Next brings us to the topic of the Sparrow. Again, we are not here to argue who said what and who has the rights the product. It is very simple. There is really no reason to threaten us and our potential patrons with a ďlaw suitĒ. That is just uncalled for and unprofessional. It is evident you and your company are upset with Aviation Jets and Markís decision to seek other vendors when your company ceased to be associated with them. At any given time, you could have reached out to us and Mike Lin as Mike has written in his reply as well. A public service announcement on your Facebook page is really quite ĎJunior High Schoolishí. The Sparrow, if it was designed by Barry and he ownís the rights for the sales and distribution, please reach out to us with the documentation showing your and his claims. We really have no interest in turning this into a political and or escalate to a legal level. Just present us the document(s) showing the Sparrow design ownership is that solely of Barry Hou and we will not carry or sell the Sparrow.

In your post here, the entire contents of you telling your side with the amount spent on projects, etc, should be a discussion that is between you and Aviation Jets held in private. Taking your displeasure with your relations with Aviation Jets and posting the details coming from one side, your side, is pretty unfair. All your rant with courts and lawsuits is just as you have stated and I quote, ďSorry to have to bring this to the internet like we are airing dirty laundry, but we feel it is important that the community knows how these people operate.Ē It is just as you have written. Dirty Laundry. ďWe feel it is important that the community knows how these people operateĒ Here is how we operate. We run our business with class and integrity. We treat every person, pilot, vendor with respect and courtesy. We will continue to provide our hobby industry with exceptional values and great products. We will provide the highest level of experience and product value with goals set on always sourcing and listening to our patrons to bring to our market the best in RC products and at fair price.

With Best Regards,
Carrie Lau
Director of Operations
Global Jet Club
Owner
Banana Hobby

Originally Posted by flejter1 View Post
Hello Everyone!

As most of you know, we have been selling and supporting Aviation Jets for the last 3 years. Aviation Jets finally released the long awaited SU-35, that we declined to sell until we have fully tested this model. After numerous requests for them to send us a pre-production jet (that we paid for, not a free demo) they finally sent it months after they released the jet elsewhere. Needless to say, after a few flights we had a catastrophic air frame/wing failure that resulted in a total loss of the jet and turbines. When we reported the failure to Mark Deng and Jiang Yi at the factory, in conversation with Barry, they admitted they knew about the flaws, screws stripping at the wing clamp due to inferior material (along with other critical flaws with this jet), as they also had failures. (Now I know why they flew their SU-35 so softly in the videos they sent us trying to get us to sell it before we received our SU) Instead of telling us about the flaw, and maybe we could have helped come up with a solution to the problem, instead Mark chose to let us lose our investment. When we asked about fixing the issues before we deliver any new kits, he said "they would not fix anything until all the kits were sold, as they already pulled too many off the mold and built them". Mark said the changes would cost too much money, and "they were willing to risk no other failures would happen". They did offer to send us another kit to replace the failed kit, but still would not address or try to fix the failed issues we already know exists. Why would we want another kit that has known issues? Again, they said they built too many kits and "it is what it is". At this time, we said we could not sell this jet to our customers and would pull it down from our website.

Now in retaliation, they said they would not complete the A-10 project and put it on hold indefinitely. We invested $20,000.00 over a year ago to help get the mold built that Mark said would only take 3-4 months to get production moving faster. When we asked Mark to return our investment on the A-10 project, Mark said he didn't feel he had to because his sales are slow on our Sparrow project and he would not return our money as it is his compensation for slow sales. Mark said they will find other Dealers to sell their jets.

They now have Global Jet club, Mike Lin and Banana Hobbies, Carrie Lau selling Aviation Jets here in the U.S. If one purchases the SU-35, let it be known he's purchasing a flawed jet!!

On another note, many of you know, Barry Hou designed the Sparrow Sport Jet and we contracted and paid Aviation Jets to build it for us. If you purchase the Sparrow from Global Jet Club, Banana Hobbies, or any other U.S. based Company, you may be subjected into a law suit. Mike Lin can call it the Global Jet Sparrow, but the fact is, we have the design rights to this jet and he is infringing on our product and market and will be dealt with in Court. There are plenty of other Sport Jets to choose from and not worth the issues coming in the near future for Global & Banana hobbies.


Sorry to have to bring this to the internet like we are airing dirty laundry, but we feel it is important that the community knows how these people operate.


Regards,
Dirk & Barry

MAGA Pacific RC Jets
Old 04-26-2019, 10:14 AM
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This photo was just shared to us. February 24th 2019, you posted to your own Pacific RC Jets Facebook public timeline:

"The SU-35 has been thoroughly tested and is now available for order by Pacific RC Jets.

All pricing is available on the Pacific RC Jets
site
Aviation Jet SU-35
The SU-35 is constructed using the composite fabrication methods from Aviation Jets practices, composite sandwich core technology and live hinging. The scale details on this SU-35 will be some of the best you have ever seen."

Your public warning in regards to the SU-35 'Flaws' and Buyers Beware Warning was posted on April 24th, 2019 on your Facebook Timeline and next here on RCU. Your own posts are here for the RC pilots to read. As of February 24th, you declared to the public, the SU-35 has been thoroughly tested and are now available for order. I personally have posted my reply above and should not have been a part of this drama to begin with. Maybe you should check your story timeline. With all due respect, we are all a part of this RC Jet community and this type of vendor slander is really not acceptable.

With Best Regards,
Carrie Lau
Director of Operations
Global Jet Club
Owner
Banana Hobby
Old 04-26-2019, 11:04 AM
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Time for pop corn and beer
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:32 PM
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Edgar Perez
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Originally Posted by mdeseve View Post
Time for pop corn and beer
Indeed. It rather ironic that sometimes companies complain when users come to RCU to express their personal experiences with their company....
Old 04-26-2019, 01:46 PM
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gunradd
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So Carriejet are you saying the aircraft is good since it lasted 7 flights?? How about the ones in China that had the same failure. How about the manufacture admitting itís a problem yet refusing to fix it.

Keep sticking up for a crap company trying to rip us jet flyers off so you can make money. Itís not going to go well.
Old 04-26-2019, 02:32 PM
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Ohh this is gonna get good.
Old 04-26-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Edgar Perez View Post
Indeed. It rather ironic that sometimes companies complain when users come to RCU to express their personal experiences with their company....
Edgar. This type of drama never grows old. Thatís why I kept on coming back for more.
Old 04-26-2019, 03:49 PM
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mikedenilin
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
So Carriejet are you saying the aircraft is good since it lasted 7 flights?? How about the ones in China that had the same failure. How about the manufacture admitting itís a problem yet refusing to fix it.

Keep sticking up for a crap company trying to rip us jet flyers off so you can make money. Itís not going to go well.
No one would stick up for a company who refuses to correct the problem. However I think we are too quick to jump into the conclusion that they refuse to correct and take preventive actions for this jet. I have helped several companies correct their design and manufacturing flaws for many years. This SU35 seems correctable by replacing the clamps and improve some construction. I would find out and let you all know the progress. AV agrees to make a public announcement to address these issues. Hope we all be patient in waiting for their response.
Old 04-26-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mikedenilin View Post


No one would stick up for a company who refuses to correct the problem. However I think we are too quick to jump into the conclusion that they refuse to correct and take preventive actions for this jet. I have helped several companies correct their design and manufacturing flaws for many years. This SU35 seems correctable by replacing the clamps and improve some construction. I would find out and let you all know the progress. AV agrees to make a public announcement to address these issues. Hope we all be patient in waiting for their response.
No conclusions drawn from anything! Only reporting what we were told by Jiang Yi himself, that they wouldn't consider the new configuration which I provided a suggested design until all existing models sold. Having said that, I do welcome their announcement of change of heart to an early release of newer safer configuration so that no one would have to risk to ruin "it" for the rest of us.

Barry
Old 04-26-2019, 05:47 PM
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Mike we tried to work with them to correct the problems... they refused. Barry was offered a new plane but it would be the same design and no changes. Well thatís not good enough so we dropped them period.

While yes after all this they might make changes but itís to little to late.
Old 04-27-2019, 12:57 AM
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I think it’s unfair for Pacific rc to go after GJC just because you guys fell out with aviation jets, especially since you guys were doing all the promoting of the product and even posted and said it was thoroughly tested it and said it was available to purchase. What if another dealers T one jets had a failure then started publicly going after Pacific rc for selling them then threatening them and their customers with a lawsuit over a aircraft design... doesn’t look great.

I feel like you guys should have just warned people about the SU35 and left it at that publicly and spoke to GJC in private. Just my opinion
Old 04-27-2019, 05:19 AM
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Chris Smith
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The primary issue here is yet another manufacturer selling a product with known structural flaws. Then when given solutions they blow them off, and sell anyway. In the quest to have the "latest and largest" we consumers jump on this stuff before it's proven and adequately tested. So here we go again.

In my view, the smart move for a distributor was to bailout and dis-associate their business from said manufacturer early rather than later. To me AV's attitude would likely repeat for who knows how many other projects in their future. Folks that have been around jets for a while remember the FEJ crap we put up with just to have a shiny big jet. I feel we consumers need to grow up a little, slow down, and buy products we see flown a lot and tested by those in the business that we know also know what they're doing.

Regarding this issue with the SU35? My gut says Barry's guys were probably obligated or at least felt compelled to put out the word, business aside. Those guys are active flyers and part of the jet community. We see them at jet events everywhere. And, they fly stuff. Sorry, but their opinion holds a ton of weight compared to non-flying distributors and manufacturers. When the dust settles, I believe they made the right call. The GJC issue is a small side issue, and largely "who cares".

Last edited by Chris Smith; 04-27-2019 at 05:27 AM.

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